Kotaku comments on DOOOOM criers
By
Alpha-One,
Posted on: 2010-10-26 17:39 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
It's died a considerable amount to me, especially the CRPG genre (damn you Bioware and Bethesda 
).
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
There's very little anymore that comes out on PC that isn't a port of a console-first game. What does come out is usually loaded with DRM or tied into "account activations".
Sorry, but PC gaming anymore is relegated to MMOs and niche titles, IMO.
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Oh you mean games like Dragon Age, Left for Dead, Fallout 3, Mass effect (2) were console ports to the PC? OH and not the other way around?|
Originally Posted by Dark One
There's very little anymore that comes out on PC that isn't a port of a console-first game. What does come out is usually loaded with DRM or tied into "account activations".
Sorry, but PC gaming anymore is relegated to MMOs and niche titles, IMO. |
Wait, didnt PS3 get MS2 wayyy after PC and Xbox? Dragon Age being build for the PC and then redesigned for the consoles is a console port?
All of these are niche titles?
Not to mention all the online shooters, but those are just consoles games of course.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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Mass Effect 1 - 5 activations, SecuROM presence, online activation|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
Oh you mean games like Dragon Age, Left for Dead, Fallout 3, Mass effect (2) were console ports to the PC? OH and not the other way around?
Wait, didnt PS3 get MS2 wayyy after PC and Xbox? Dragon Age being build for the PC and then redesigned for the consoles is a console port? All of these are niche titles? Not to mention all the online shooters, but those are just consoles games of course. |
Left For Dead - Valve game requiring Steam which is DRM
Fallout 3 - SecuROM but it is removable
Dragon Age - All 3 released at the same time
And tell me, why would I play most of those games on a PC when there is the much, much simpler method of "Insert Disc" for a console? Rather than having to deal with Error Message XR2892B-Q for the hundredth time. The exceptions being those that support extensive modding like Fallout 3.
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Strawman. Absolutely none of this has to do with whether the PC is a viable system for gaming, which is the secondary topic of this thread (the primary being how inaccurate doom criers can be).|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Mass Effect 1 - 5 activations, SecuROM presence, online activation
Left For Dead - Valve game requiring Steam which is DRM Fallout 3 - SecuROM but it is removable And tell me, why would I play most of those games on a PC when there is the much, much simpler method of "Insert Disc" for a console? Rather than having to deal with Error Message XR2892B-Q for the hundredth time. The exceptions being those that support extensive modding like Fallout 3. |
And for the record: I have a PS3, Xbox 360, DS lite, and Wii in my house. I haven't been interested in any of them and game almost exclusively on my PC. My reasons, again, are irrelevant to this thread. I'm just saying that the reasons you presented don't drive everyone away.
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No, actually it isn't a strawman. It's a legitimate argument of why people are moving away from PC gaming. If the companies are loading so much into the "You aren't buying it, just renting it from us" angle, then naturally people are going to be less inclined to buy products for said system.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Strawman. Absolutely none of this has to do with whether the PC is a viable system for gaming, which is the secondary topic of this thread (the primary being how inaccurate doom criers can be).
And for the record: I have a PS3, Xbox 360, DS lite, and Wii in my house. I haven't been interested in any of them and game almost exclusively on my PC. My reasons, again, are irrelevant to this thread. I'm just saying that the reasons you presented don't drive everyone away. |
Yes, it is viable, however the game companies themselves are doing everything in their power to make it less attractive to the customers. I can go into pretty much any store and see the PC game section being relegated to a couple of titles, meanwhile the 360/PS3/Wii section is huge.
Not to mention the fact of spending hours trying to get it to work on the PC vs putting a disc into a console. If you've got limited time to play, what are you going to do? Spend 3 hours futzing with a PC install for 15 minutes of game time? Or spend 15 minutes installing to a 360 and playing for 3 hours?
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So DRM doesn't exist for Consoles? about how Xbox where you have to play online in order to play all your arcade games that are on your console's harddrive? Or to play pure singleplayer games with no multiplayer component?|
Originally Posted by Dark One
No, actually it isn't a strawman. It's a legitimate argument of why people are moving away from PC gaming. If the companies are loading so much into the "You aren't buying it, just renting it from us" angle, then naturally people are going to be less inclined to buy products for said system.
Yes, it is viable, however the game companies themselves are doing everything in their power to make it less attractive to the customers. I can go into pretty much any store and see the PC game section being relegated to a couple of titles, meanwhile the 360/PS3/Wii section is huge. Not to mention the fact of spending hours trying to get it to work on the PC vs putting a disc into a console. If you've got limited time to play, what are you going to do? Spend 3 hours futzing with a PC install for 15 minutes of game time? Or spend 15 minutes installing to a 360 and playing for 3 hours? |
You harp and harp about PC internet DRM yet bat an eye about the ones being put onto consoles. Which apparently is your entire argument about PC gaming dying.
You also act like consoles are always working in perfect order and never break, crash or are buggy. Never heard of that massive problem with xbox 360s that required people to turn them in to get new ones? The Xbox 360s red error light isn't nicknamed the red ring of death for nothing. Or buggy games that cant get patched?
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
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1) No denied that people were moving away from PC Gaming. You're the only one that's arguing that. Which is exactly what a Strawman is.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
No, actually it isn't a strawman. It's a legitimate argument of why people are moving away from PC gaming.
|
2) The point is PC Gaming isn't dead.
3) Also the point is that Doom Criers like to say the world is ending don't present proof.
4) Present proof that these changes are directly connected with the PC industry not profiting enough to be viable.
Dark_One, you have to consider that you are one of the heathens who doesn't use Steam, and Steam is a big part of PC gaming now.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Dark_One, you have to consider that you are one of the heathens who doesn't use Steam, and Steam is a big part of PC gaming now.
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I love Steam. I drink from its cup.
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well steam = DRM|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Dark_One, you have to consider that you are one of the heathens who doesn't use Steam, and Steam is a big part of PC gaming now.
|
and
DRM = PC gaming is dying
so
Steam = PC gaming is dying
apparently
*even tho you can play offline*
EDIT: also try and tell me that a multitude of people aren't going to get D3 and play that to death when it comes out, and temporarily abandon anything else they where playing at that time.
Just try.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
consoles are limited and crippled compared to the vast beauty available on a PC.
they do a few things really well, but that's it.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I still don't even know what exactly consoles are for
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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When someone is |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I still don't even know what exactly consoles are for
|
you console them to try to make them 
again.
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A console is DRM, yet it is invisible DRM. It's DRM that works. While I can't play a 360 game on a PS3, I have zero worries about a game not working out of the box.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
So DRM doesn't exist for Consoles? about how Xbox where you have to play online in order to play all your arcade games that are on your console's harddrive? Or to play pure singleplayer games with no multiplayer component?
|
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| You harp and harp about PC internet DRM yet bat an eye about the ones being put onto consoles. Which apparently is your entire argument about PC gaming dying. |
Compare that with C&C4 or Ubisoft's trend of requiring constant internet connection or your game stops working.
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| You also act like consoles are always working in perfect order and never break, crash or are buggy. Never heard of that massive problem with xbox 360s that required people to turn them in to get new ones? The Xbox 360s red error light isn't nicknamed the red ring of death for nothing. Or buggy games that cant get patched? |
I've had ONE PS2 brick on me and that was one of the original fat models and that was only after several years (can't remember how many).
Buggy games that can't get patched? How many PC games are shipped in perfect working order with no patches needed? Just look at Fallout: New Vegas' bug issues that exist on multiple platforms.
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| 1) No denied that people were moving away from PC Gaming. You're the only one that's arguing that. Which is exactly what a Strawman is. |
I used to be big into PC gaming. I've got literally hundreds of PC game discs (not hundreds of games as a lot are multi-disc) and that's not counting my 3.5" and 5.25" games. In the last few years, I've only bought a handful of PC games...Fallout 3, The Witcher, Oblivion, Dawn of War, and CoH expansions and a few really old games that I needed to replace like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, etc.
Compare that with the 360 where in the last month alone, I've bought Halo: Reach, The Force Unleashed, Bayonetta, The Simpsons Game, Enchanted Arms, Dead Rising 2, Soulcalibur 4, BlazBlue, and a couple others. Granted, they were bought used except for Reach and DR2.
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But I do that anyway, without needing any hardware |
Originally Posted by Flarstux
When someone is
you console them to try to make them again. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Bold mine.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Can you tell me with a straight face that PC gaming is at all healthy right now? As compared with the consoles?
|
That's not what this topic is about. Every time I point that out, you proceed to take it further from topic.
The point the original article and I make is that it is doing well enough to continue to still have developers make games for it.
Not which one you like more. Not which one is doing better.
People go on and on about the console "Wars", but as long as everyone's turning a profit, everyone's winning. More than one people can capture the flag in this version.
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Except that IS what the topic is about. You can't look at gaming with blinders on. PC gaming is not gaining new players at nearly the rate the consoles are. People are moving away from PC because of a variety of issues, such as enforced obsolence, the upgrade treadmill, invasive DRM, learning curve of use, etc. It is definitely not a healthy platform at the moment.|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Bold mine.
That's not what this topic is about. Every time I point that out, you proceed to take it further from topic. The point the original article and I make is that it is doing well enough to continue to still have developers make games for it. Not which one you like more. Not which one is doing better. People go on and on about the console "Wars", but as long as everyone's turning a profit, everyone's winning. More than one people can capture the flag in this version. |
And those developers? How many of them are strictly PC-only nowadays? Blizzard. That's just about it, in terms of "big" names.
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Actually it is the secondary definition of a strawman, false proof sometimes called a "straw battering ram". You're talking about a scenario that simply does not occur. The actual sales figures show that people don't giver a tinker's damn about DRM. You're gathering straw and building a situation that does not occur, and then using it to knock down an opposing viewpoint.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
No, actually it isn't a strawman. It's a legitimate argument of why people are moving away from PC gaming. If the companies are loading so much into the "You aren't buying it, just renting it from us" angle, then naturally people are going to be less inclined to buy products for said system.
|
The lie about copy protection harming end users wasn't any more true when I was a young pirate in the 80's (I'm Kid Einstein/Einstein Eagle/Captain Kidd from Eaglesoft, if anyone remembers. Yes, the second gen Ocean disk error crack, that was ME! all four people who care cheer for me!) The sales figures proved us to be full of it back then, and they still do now. We pretended we were about 'consumer rights' but we weren't. We were about stealing games. I doubt anything has changed since then, given the sales figures on heavily DRM'd games are consistently high.
Heck, if you wanted to selectively look at stats to prove an insane point, you could make the claim that more savage DRM drives sales up, and have more of a ground in true reality than claiming it drives sales down.
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Eh, I thought the PC was actually getting a bit of a resurgence thanks to Steam and stuff like it. I have no numbers on the subject as I don't care enough to look them up, but just about everyone I know seems to be eating Steam up.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
People are moving away from PC because of a variety of issues, such as enforced obsolence, the upgrade treadmill, invasive DRM, learning curve of use, etc.
|
I think the PC is staying in the game for several reasons. While it's true that games have requirements that must be met by your computer, that aspect actually attracts some people. I think it's that whole "customization" thing that really tech-savvy people get off on.
Mods are another big draw for the PC. I had Max Payne 1 & 2 for my X-Box, but I eventually bought them on the cheap for the PC; just cause I could give Max cooler bullet-time moves and a sword!
Basically it's all about doing what the consoles can't. Again, Steam being a prime example. Also the interface. For games like Dragon Age and.... well, City of Heroes; a mouse and keyboard are just better.
Actually, Dark One, you are wrong, there are full console games that require you to be connected in order to play, PS3 have "internet requirements" in order to play the game. Which is why during that one day PS 3 'blackout' people couldn't play some of their games on the PS3. Even completely singleplayer games.
Edit Also PCs dont have 40% failure rates when released.
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
There will always be games built for and best used on the PC, up until things evolve beyond the PC as we know it.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2...sole-games.ars
In a year that saw Starcraft 2, you can't with a straight face claim PC gaming is dying.
It's an if you build it, they will come scenario. Build a great game on ANY platform, and people will go out of their way to play it.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Prove it.|
Originally Posted by NobleFox
Actually it is the secondary definition of a strawman, false proof sometimes called a "straw battering ram". You're talking about a scenario that simply does not occur. The actual sales figures show that people don't giver a tinker's damn about DRM. You're gathering straw and building a situation that does not occur, and then using it to knock down an opposing viewpoint.
|
If people didn't give a damn about DRM, then Spore wouldn't have been one of the most pirated games in history, yet it had one of the most restrictive DRM methods at the time.
Fallout: New Vegas...according to the numbers I've found, it has a 360 sale-rate of approximately 10x (850k for the 360, 460k for the PS3, 90k for the PC) that of the PC for week one. Now, one cannot verify if that was because of the DRM requirement for the PC or not.
Fallout 3...according to the numbers I've seen, 4.7 million copies sold during launch week worldwide, of which, 55% were 360, 28% PS3, 17% PC. Which amounts to nearly 800k PC units.
Of course, that mixes worldwide and US only and I wasn't able to find US-only stats for Fallout 3. But of the two games, one had barely any DRM, the other requires a third-party program.
According to another stat page on Gamasutra, in 2007, PC sales accounted for a measly 14% of total game sales with the majority of those going to WoW and The Sims.
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I don't have a PS3 so I can't speak there.|
Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
Actually, Dark One, you are wrong, there are full console games that require you to be connected in order to play, PS3 have "internet requirements" in order to play the game. Which is why during that one day PS 3 'blackout' people couldn't play some of their games on the PS3. Even completely singleplayer games.
Edit Also PCs dont have 40% failure rates when released. |
However, I do have a 360 and not one of the 28 games I have require me to be connected to the internet to play it, ttbomk. For parts like multiplayer and co-op? Yes, but not for single-player.
Please enlighten me then to the names of these full console games that require constant connection.
Article here.
In that link: Kotaku produces links spanning literally the entire decade, each an insightful and brilliant article about how PC gaming is dying. It seems each article is determined to prove that the industry is dying.
For ten years.
I think this pretty well encapsulates my thoughts on doom criers.