Best aoe dmg

I would not assume anything. I have never played wow in my life. I could not tell you the first thing about the game.. why would you even say such a silly thing anyway. Its pretty clear from your tone that you don't know what you are talking about.

I think Elec fire is pretty good and I think it is the best in the game.

When you can take down 54's with FieryEmbrace/Burn/buildup/LR and the whole first wave is dead but for the bosses who need one more burn and thunderstrike I think that says enough. Thats about 30 seconds and LR is back up if needed. AND NO REDS NEEDED FOR THAT

Ya I see no reason to waste time with SS and rage crash.

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Originally Posted by Metacreativity It's pretty clear from the tone of your post that you were once a WoW player who was active in the forum community. SS has the best AoE in the game, and the combination of foot stomp and rage (even more so with double rage) is devastating. Double raged it eclipses the damage of FSC IIRC with twice the range. The new (old) burn makes the combo even more incredible. While Elec has one true AoE that isn't affected by fury, and several pseudo AoE's like chain induction, who's initial hit is affected by fury but none of the jumps are, and jacob's ladder which IIRC only affects 5 targets. Not to say Elec has no place, it's a fun set with a lot of multitarget abilities. None of them however are superior to foot stomp and rage, let alone double rage. Matter of fact, isn't claws a better set for AoE than Elec? Simply based on the fact that it's T9 is affected by fury would be enough do choose it over the other for me. Good hunting.

I am not mad at all.. you guys tell eveyone that this is the best AOE combo in the game and it simply is not true. I don't need reds to be a quick killer(but you do) and I don't need rage to waste an entire spawn of lvl 54 baddies in less than 15 seconds(but you do). Go build a real farmer and see for yourself. Can you imagine what it would be like if I popped reds like you did???

Why would I let you guys lead someone in the wrong direction? That;s all nothing more nothing less.

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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer Why are you so mad? The OP asked what Brute has the best AoE damage and we answered. Why would we give them a wrong answer? We're not saying Elec/Fire is terrible or anything, far from it, just that SS/Fire is indeed a little better when it comes to AoE damage. That's all, nothing more, nothing less.

You don't use inspirations when farming? Well that answers enough right there. If you're so confident about Elec/Fire being the best, why don't you post some Herostats numbers and I'll do the same with my SS/Fire.

With hasten on you can get burn under 10 seconds.. why is that so hard to believe? With the force feedback+ rech you get even faster. Its about 8 seconds and comes in at about 6 seconds at times. Ya my recharge is about 210 at peak.

It does not matter what you post becasue your math is still wrong. What I said has happened before and does happen. Yes I think you should not just trust in your math skillzzz.

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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate Burn can do some huge damage to bosses. If the game decides that they will be one of the 5 hit with the front loaded damage. But lets pretend that you get lucky, every single time and the bosses get hit with burn for the full damage. That puts burn at around 650 damage with FE and BU and a full fury bar. Also if you manage to get the bosses in the high damage portion of LR they will take around 890 damage. So far that is about 1540 damage to the boss, pretty decnet. At this point you claim that only the bosses are left and you only need one more burn (1540 + 650 =2190) and a thunderstrike (2190 + 540 =2730) to finish them off. I am assuming you have blazing aura on as well so that would be about 30 dps added to this and the chan you provided last right about 10 seconds for an extra 300. Ill even assume you have the 230% ish recharge to get burn to cast 2 times in 10 seconds as well. (I do so it is within the realm of reality) Grand total of 3030 damage. And this is assuming 100% hit rate, even though 54 mobs are much harder to hit. Level 54 bosses have 1730 hp but wait. Fighting +4 mobs means you are only 48% effective due to the purple patch. So even if they had no resistance to your damage type, you would only do 1454.4 damage. Sorry but once again you are lying to make your favorite set seem better than it is. Video or it didn't happen. Oh and we are still waiting on the 2:30 1500 ticket video.

Yes.. yes your math.. whatever that is. I don't act as you say.. but let me type you then. You are just another of the ss/fire zombies and I have seen many people like you... to many... which makes you moot becasue I know what you are going to post before you post it.

Using Just SS how much aoe dmg can you do in ten seconds? Don't bother with Fury but only what can be done in 10 seconds with the SS primary alone. What is your DMG total?

For example with elec I can do
Buildup/LR/TS/CS

SS can do this
Rage/FS

I think if anyone looks at mids they can say that elec does more aoe dmg in 10 seconds than SS does.

Now whats wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by Metacreativity You're making claims with no mathematical evidence, which makes them moot. Show us the numbers and we'll prove you wrong with math of our own. Also, I've been hanging out on these boards a long time. I've seen many people, like yourself act belligerently and get sat down with simple fact and a side of proof. That's how this turn of events will inevitably die. Good hunting.

SS: Foot stomp: rec-red needed to get it down to 5 seconds for 2 stomps per 10 seconds: Base recharge is 20sec.
5 = 20 / 1+X
5 + 5x = 20
x = 3 300% global recharge needed in footstomp. Yea, that ain't happening.
How about 7 seconds? 186% recharge needed, yea, that's completely doable.

So FS fires off every 7 seconds on a decent build.

It does 59.23 smashing damage (highly resisted) at base hitting up to 10 enemies.

75% fury is the new baseline. That's 150% damage buff. Double stacked rage adds another 160%. (Note: for it to double stack, it has to fire off every 60 seconds. This means after every 60 seconds, there's a 10 second dead period. 1/7th of the time, the brute will deal 0 damage with foot stomp.

Amount of damage the SS user now dishes out IF it hits all 10 targets and assuming you've also managed to get 95% worth of damage enhancement slotted:

59.23 * 1+.95+1.5+1.6 * 10 = 2991 points of damage pushed out. But we have to account for the rage crash: 2991*6/7 = 2564 total damage every 7 seconds

Raged-Furied-Fully slotted foot stomp DPS = 366


I don't know crap about electric melee, so I'm not going there. But I will do claws cuz that I know.

I use followup, eviscerate, spin as my aoe chain. I won't even bother with FU's damage, but I will consider its double stacked buff of 60% on a brute.

Spin does 78.83 lethal, also up to 10 enemies.
Eviscerate does 90.96 lethal, but only to up to 5.

The total animation time of the chain is less than 7 seconds, but we'll call it 7 for the hell of it.

150% from fury, 95% from enhancement, 60% from followup, against target cap.
Spin: 78.83 * 1+1.5+.95+.6 * 10 = 3193 damage
Eviscerate: 90.96 * 1+1.5+.95+.6 * 5 = 1842 damage
Total damage dealt in 7 seconds is 5035 or 719 DPS

719 versus 366.

Looks like claws kicks the crap out of super strength on AoE output.

But does this show the whole story?

Nope. Foot stomp's radius is much large than spin's. It has an easier time affecting 10 enemies at a time. However, this is often grossly overstated by the proponents of SS.

This also ignored aoes taken from the APP/PPPs which any good farmer would. Foot Stomp + Fireball or Foot Stomp + Ball Lightning + Elec Fences is certainly going to bring the SS farmer much closer to the claws user. Of course, the claws user can go get those as well, can't he? Sadly for him, he will have to suffer through redraw issues.

The electric melee user won't.

EDIT: Yea, I ignored fiery embrace. It's proc damage. Slap it on top if ya like, but it's going to benefit those using more aoes in a given time period than those using less.

You don't know how to read. 10 seconds! ten second attack! Start from 0. Also I am not assuming anything. My build has buildup back about 1 second before LR is back.

And no Footstomp is not up 2x in ten seconds.. even if it was it's still not going to equal the elec dmg output in 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys Three things are wrong with that. (i) You are assuming that Build Up and Lightning Rod will both be available for every spawn. (ii) You are assuming that only a single instance of Rage is running. Rage can be stacked. (iii) You fail to account for the fact that even with just SOs and Hasten, Footstomp is up TWICE in a ten second period. (OK... technically four things. You said "CS", when I assume you mean "CI"...) Build Up and LR's recharge can be brought down to a little under 30 seconds or so with a reasonable investment into Global Recharge set bonuses, plus Hasten. When discussing farming, if it takes a toon 30 seconds to finish off a group and move to the next one, that's rather slow going. My Spines/DA Scrapper, who is not optimised for farming, typically takes 10-15 seconds for each large spawn.

Wow.. that's pretty amazing.

Ok so clearly SS/Fire is not as great as everyone thinks it is. Forget about using any attack outside of the primary and SS starts to look even worse. You need burn and another epics pool to make it viable as I said before. There are other primary's that work better out of the box than SS at much earlier levels. You have to wait till later on to get FS and add the much needed epics to make ss/fire usable. Late bloomer.

Maybe I will fire up my claws/SR and take a look.

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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba SS: Foot stomp: rec-red needed to get it down to 5 seconds for 2 stomps per 10 seconds: Base recharge is 20sec. 5 = 20 / 1+X 5 + 5x = 20 x = 3 300% global recharge needed in footstomp. Yea, that ain't happening. How about 7 seconds? 186% recharge needed, yea, that's completely doable. So FS fires off every 7 seconds on a decent build. It does 59.23 smashing damage (highly resisted) at base hitting up to 10 enemies. 75% fury is the new baseline. That's 150% damage buff. Double stacked rage adds another 160%. (Note: for it to double stack, it has to fire off every 60 seconds. This means after every 60 seconds, there's a 10 second dead period. 1/7th of the time, the brute will deal 0 damage with foot stomp. Amount of damage the SS user now dishes out IF it hits all 10 targets and assuming you've also managed to get 95% worth of damage enhancement slotted: 59.23 * 1+.95+1.5+1.6 * 10 = 2991 points of damage pushed out. But we have to account for the rage crash: 2991*6/7 = 2564 total damage every 7 seconds Raged-Furied-Fully slotted foot stomp DPS = 366 I don't know crap about electric melee, so I'm not going there. But I will do claws cuz that I know. I use followup, eviscerate, spin as my aoe chain. I won't even bother with FU's damage, but I will consider its double stacked buff of 60% on a brute. Spin does 78.83 lethal, also up to 10 enemies. Eviscerate does 90.96 lethal, but only to up to 5. The total animation time of the chain is less than 7 seconds, but we'll call it 7 for the hell of it. 150% from fury, 95% from enhancement, 60% from followup, against target cap. Spin: 78.83 * 1+1.5+.95+.6 * 10 = 3193 damage Eviscerate: 90.96 * 1+1.5+.95+.6 * 5 = 1842 damage Total damage dealt in 7 seconds is 5035 or 719 DPS 719 versus 366. Looks like claws kicks the crap out of super strength on AoE output. But does this show the whole story? Nope. Foot stomp's radius is much large than spin's. It has an easier time affecting 10 enemies at a time. However, this is often grossly overstated by the proponents of SS. This also ignored aoes taken from the APP/PPPs which any good farmer would. Foot Stomp + Fireball or Foot Stomp + Ball Lightning + Elec Fences is certainly going to bring the SS farmer much closer to the claws user. Of course, the claws user can go get those as well, can't he? Sadly for him, he will have to suffer through redraw issues. The electric melee user won't. EDIT: Yea, I ignored fiery embrace. It's proc damage. Slap it on top if ya like, but it's going to benefit those using more aoes in a given time period than those using less.

If you want to particapate then you need to read and even more so when you decide to come and post in here and start saying things and answering questions incorrectly. Also its not personal, I stated a fact and if it was personal I would have insulted you, and I did not insult you at all. I pointed out the fact that you did not read and if you find the truth insulting then what can anyone do.

And no even with footstop up 2x its not going to out do electric in ten seconds.

No its not just about farming potential its about who does the best AOE dmg and we learned that SS is not top of the heap for AOE dmg. That means that when thinking about farming you need to use your secondarys and epics to make it viable. And no RAGE does not keep going and going.. it wears off after awhile as Bill stated.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys Firstly: personal attacks are not becoming. My Literary ability or lack thereof is not currently the topic under discussion. For all you know I might be Illiterate, Blind, Dyslexic, Irish, or all of the above. Secondly: if you wish to measure performance from the start to the finish of a ten second period, with all abilities fully-recharged, then Footstomp will indeed be up twice as Bill just proved it recharges in about seven seconds on a typical build. After the second time it will simply not have completely finished recharging before the ten seconds are up. Thirdly: I believe this is currently a discussion about farming potential, meaning consistent AOE damage output... not maximum spike AOE damage output once-every-30-seconds. Of course Build Up is going to equal the performance of a Single-Stacked Rage over a ten second period. But after that, Build Up runs out and Rage keeps on going. And Going. And Going. And ends up passing itself again on the next lap.

Cause we know everything on paper works out exactly the same in game.

When I have time I'll do a few runs with my SS/Fire using herostats and post some real numbers. If anyone wants to do the same with a Claws/Fire and Elec/Fire, go ahead and we'll compare results.

I'm not going to dignify that last reply with a direct response.

Assuming there are still people left reading this thread who are not emotionally vested in their choice of the Elec Melee powerset, and who are willing to entertain the notion that it just might not be the optimal set under all possible conditions:

I've plugged the numbers for SS/Fire and Elec/Fire into one of my DPS spreadsheets.

A copy of it is viewable online at here using Google Docs (exported from excel)

It assumes 75% Fury, 3x Damage SOs slotted, and Single-Stacked Rage for the default instance of SS.

Highlights:
(i) 7.13 Second Chain of FS/Burn/E Fences/B Lightning = 1204Dam/169DPS (DoubleStacked rage)
(ii) 5.68 Second Chain of FS/Burn/Fireball = 1061Dam/187DPS (DoubleStacked rage)
(iii) 11.484 Second Chain of LR/CI/Burn/JL/TS = 1504.9Dam/131DPS (No BU) 1853Dam/161DPS (BU)
(iv) Neither Chain can be repeated indefinitely, but the first SS one is the closest (At the 400% recharge cap, the Recharge time of Ball Lightning is 8 seconds)

The comparison is not perfect, it assumes the damage dealt by the attacks applies to the mob(s) you are fighting... so the Target cap and Radius of individual attacks is ignored. It also ignores cast time of Rage/Build Up and the Rage Crash.

Even so, I shall let you draw your own conclusions.

I'm not going to even ATTEMPT a comparison with Claws...

Disclaimer: I am NOT personally a fan of farming on Brutes. SS or otherwise. I find farming monotonous and as such tend to zone-out when forced to partake in it. When forced to farm; I prefer to do it either on Masterminds (in which case I can divert the majority of my attention to watching a DVD on another screen) or Fire Blasters with Rise of the Pheonix (which are just downright hilarious).

[Edit: Clarified Assumed Damage Slotting]

Claw/Fire/Mu does indeed put out more AoE Carnage than SS/Fire/Mu

Best thing SS has going for it however is (obviously rage) but....Knockdown. It's why SS/Fire is safer, but not necessarilly the best.

I'd trust Bill's math. It's all personal preferance after that. Flavor to taste. SS/Fire/Mu has the KD to help it survive. Claws has a metric ton of damage. It's all in what you like.

I'll still to my SS/Fire personally, as the KD has me spoiled.

I'm not saying Bill's math is wrong, just that it doesn't factor everything in such as the radius of the attacks. You're certainly not going to hit the target cap with Spin and Eviscerate every time, while it's much more likely you will with Foot Stomp.