Sounds good to me. The Fifth have and always will be cooler than the Council (as cool as evil can be. It's like Darth Vader, only with 100% less 'Nooooooo!' and more penchant for outrageous Pythonesue German accents 
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Also, seeing more NPC Nictus in-game rather than the copy-paste Nova/Dwarf/Galaxy/Void combo that comes up would be awesome.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Agreed that the Council could be upgraded some. Even the 5th Column. The Council could have a few more Nictus tricks and get the "Rommy treatment" like in the ITF or from the red side arc where you have Nictus temporarily infused in you (can't think of it atm).
I think they need to loose Vampirii, Warwolves, and drones to make them more distinct from the 5th. I think go more in the direction of the Galaxy troops in their looks and take the stance of the corporeal military arm of the Nictus on Earth.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Warwolves are sort of nictus byproducts, so they fit. The vampires are just silly. Yes, they should be preparing the world for the nictus. Putting people in camps for their nictus masters to possess later. And so on. A swarm of locusts eating the planet then moving on. I see the nictus as a Galactus swarm but with no purpose. They'll move on to eating suns eventually, their only desire to eradicate all light, heat and life from the universe.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Nihilists? Say what you will about the tenets of space fascism, dude, but at least it's an ethos.|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
So anyway back to the Council. I think that instead of fascists from space they should adopt another weird -ism, namely that of nihilism.
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If you want a classic 20th-century pair-off, the 5th Column could retroactively adopt cosmo-Trotskyite-Leninism as its totalitarian ideology. Nihilism, despite selective adoption by post-modernists, is fundamentally a 19th-century politico-philosophic movement and may be better suited to Nemesis.
Besides, aren't Commies more fun to beat down?
I don't want to pair off anything. And I don't care for real-world nihilism. I want the simplistic, easily explained destroy-the-world kind of nihilism. You know, Chaotic Evil.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
For being portrayed as such a major villain group, they're quite boring and weak. Not entirely sure I agree with changing them into completely chaotic evil, but they could certainly use a boost in badassery. I'd like to see the differences between the Column and Council heightened by the use of the Council's Nictus and Ascendant branches, perhaps even integrating those into the Vortex/Vampyri/Warwolf branches.
I see a lot of potential in the Council that was never achieved because they were made to replace the Column.
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Kidding about cosmic Commies aside, you're definitely on the right track about revamping the Council now that their ideological predecessors are back in the game. Without a strong motivating theme, they are easily eclipsed by the 5th Column, and their copy-paste mobs don't even have the sartorial flair that fascism prides itself on. Likewise, nihilism could definitely find a place among CoX's political tropes, alongside supervillain Darwinianism and Praetorian totalitarianism. I'm just not convinced that the Council - a dogmatic, rigidly organized group in its current state - is the best candidate to take up the essentially anarchic banner of bomb-throwing, official-assassinating, propagandizing-by-the-deed nihilism (the OG Chaotic Evil of political science).|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I want the simplistic, easily explained destroy-the-world kind of nihilism. You know, Chaotic Evil.
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With a little re-education, maybe the Council could be retconned into a nihilistic terrorist underground movement backed by the nictus - though this might be at odds with their Bond villain base architecture and some of their schemes in radio missions. Any proposed revamping will require some fundamental rethinking about their motivations and role in the CoX canon.
I would love to see a Council / Sky Raiders merger to team up against the 5th Column, perhaps with one zone dedicated to be a major battleground for the duration of the story in game time.
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Wouldn't happen. Sky Raiders [SPOILER] are actually a subsidiary of Nemesis and with or without Nemesis, the Sky Raiders have a big hate-on for Council and the Center.|
Originally Posted by Remaugen
I would love to see a Council / Sky Raiders merger to team up against the 5th Column, perhaps with one zone dedicated to be a major battleground for the duration of the story in game time.
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A 5th/Raider team up might be possible, but only begrudgingly.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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If they were going to try and make the 5th Column and the Council more distinctive from each other, then I think the Nictus should only be with the 5th Column, mostly because of the ITF.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Like the ones that look at you like you have 3 heads when you raise the fact of them destroying themselves too should they destroy the world?
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I don't want to pair off anything. And I don't care for real-world nihilism. I want the simplistic, easily explained destroy-the-world kind of nihilism. You know, Chaotic Evil.
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Well, fun as the ITF is, like the Reichs TF and SF, as Samuel Tow and a few other lore buffs point out the whole damn thing's a lore related nightmare.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If they were going to try and make the 5th Column and the Council more distinctive from each other, then I think the Nictus should only be with the 5th Column, mostly because of the ITF.
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And personally, I think the 5th column should get a bit of a revamp if only because THEY'RE the ones re-surging, and it makes little sense that they're so successful when they're using the SAME tactics and weapons they had when the Council took them over before.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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When it comes to the council VS the fifth column, the column always wins in my book. Why? Because they are snappy dressers, something the council seriously lacks.
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That's the sign of true (parody) nihilists. They know they will be destroyed along with the world - they don't care. It's not a normal mindset. If we want to make them seem like they have a plan then they could be working towards making Earth a breeding camp for nictus hosts. If you have played Unai Kemen's arc which ends with you finding Requiem alone on a world of warwolves, and the utter destruction/disappearance of that dimension, that's what I'm going for. The Council wants that kind of world.
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Originally Posted by beyeajus
Like the ones that look at you like you have 3 heads when you raise the fact of them destroying themselves too should they destroy the world?
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Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
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Because they built them first, and did it better! |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Well, fun as the ITF is, like the Reichs TF and SF, as Samuel Tow and a few other lore buffs point out the whole damn thing's a lore related nightmare.
And personally, I think the 5th column should get a bit of a revamp if only because THEY'RE the ones re-surging, and it makes little sense that they're so successful when they're using the SAME tactics and weapons they had when the Council took them over before. |
Beating up some semi-alien loving ex-neo-nazi fascist...uh...Italians?
Or wailing on Super Soldier Nazi's throughout time?
Do I even have to answer that?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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The way I see it, if it weren't for the Nictus storylines, the Council could EASILY be written from the lore. Maybe the Column did to them what the Council did to the Column all those issues ago?
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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Requiem himself is Column, though, not Council. Heck, he's the one always trying to subvert the Council, at that. Of course, now Reichsman has apparently stolen the Fifth Column from him too.
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Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
If you have played Unai Kemen's arc which ends with you finding Requiem alone on a world of warwolves, and the utter destruction/disappearance of that dimension, that's what I'm going for. The Council wants that kind of world.
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...War Witch should get to kill off Requiem and come back to the land of the living. (Unless she finds the astral plain cooler, that is)
Because, let's face it, Requiem is a bit of a wash out. Ok, the Center isn't much better, but at least he's kinda cool in a 'puppet master string-puller' kinda way. And Reichsman, despire being a cheating nazi goit, does 'way cooler ' in spades.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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At first, I was thinking about how being a bright pink M. Bison clone isn't "way cooler" than much of anything, then I realized that we're comparing him to Requiem, so that still works.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...War Witch should get to kill off Requiem and come back to the land of the living. (Unless she finds the astral plain cooler, that is)
Because, let's face it, Requiem is a bit of a wash out. Ok, the Center isn't much better, but at least he's kinda cool in a 'puppet master string-puller' kinda way. And Reichsman, despire being a cheating nazi goit, does 'way cooler ' in spades. |
Hey, I hate Requiem as much as the next hero or villain, but give him a break it's not his fault the game story writers were inconsistent and flip flopped all over the place with his story.
And personally, I like Reichsman less just because Emperor Cole makes a better Evil Cole, and has a better fashion sense.*
*That last one was purely subjective...
And besides, Reichsman is the leader of Axis America/Nazi-world, why would he be interested the failing Fifth Column or Council?
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Personally, I love Requiem. He's like the 5th Version of Luigi as opposed to the similarly dressed Mario/Reichsman. He just plays the second fiddle so well and I guess it reminds me that not everyone in power gets what they want.
Makes me feel good in a weird sort of way.
Claiming the Isles (The Nemesis Strike Force), Arc 448371 - Rogueish action from the Prussian Prince of Automatons himself!
I'm on board.
The council have always been the 5th's redheaded stepchildren (red & black > green & black) anyway, they need to get their own gig- nihilism works!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Requiem himself is Column, though, not Council. Heck, he's the one always trying to subvert the Council, at that. Of course, now Reichsman has apparently stolen the Fifth Column from him too.
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Requiem's message While journeying in Werewolf World, you felt a dark presence touch your mind. It said: 'This is a world of shadows, and I can hide myself easily within it. You believe me responsible for the destruction that has coursed through the multiverse. I must admit, I glory in it. You will not find me, little hero. These shadows are my only friends.'
He revels in the destruction of the multiverse. Sounds pretty nihilistic to me. Later on when you have lured him back into the light with a candle of pure flame he says that he is glad to be defeated, in a way, and that he has seen the multiverse and despised it. Clear nihilistic tendencies. He may be 5th Column but he's also Nictus. Being the puppets of nictus masters is what should make the Council nihilists, not the other way around. Requiem is quite extraordinary in that he has remained in control over himself despite being possessed by a nictus for so long.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
I think the Council needs a new angle. Fascism is sort of boring, plus we have the 5th Column back. Do we really need two almost identical fascist groups? The 5th Column have the added bonus of being traitorous American fascist scum and not just some imported fascism. Beating up traitor fascists is like beating up both Santa and Jesus at Christmas, twice the fun.
So anyway back to the Council. I think that instead of fascists from space they should adopt another weird -ism, namely that of nihilism. They already have a good start with all the darkitydark nictus stuff going on. It's not a far stretch to think that they might actually be trying to destroy the world. And that's a refreshing simplicity I think we're lacking in villain groups these days. None of the factions in CoX really wants to destroy the world, not even the Banished Pantheon. Maybe Rularuu but I'm not sure they count.
If the Council were to put fascism on the back burner - they don't have to abandon it entirely, it's probably very easy to be a nihilist fascist - and bring the utter destruction of the world to the top of their agenda, I think that would make them a more unique and interesting group than simply Evil Fascists Part Two. They could focus on recruiting desperate and hopeless men who lost it all in the Rikti war and who already believe that the world is about to end.
I decided that the Council should be changed instead of the 5th Column because the Column has always seemed more politically inclined than the semi-religious nictus-worshipping Council. The 5th Column should be all about taking over the world to create a fascist utopia (?) because that suits them better.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522