Why do SoA refuse to get tactical training : Tactics and Tactical Training Maneuvers?

So yah...90% of the SoA I run into or team with dont have that>.< Is there some sort of conspiracy?? T_T Its in virtue server btw

You sure that's 90%?
What's the sample size?

Average level?

My guess is that since EATs are unlocked at 20 now people are getting to level 20 and making "Epic" SoA and not realising that their TT's are actually usefull (Well, Maneuvers is... Leadership not so much since people should slot for enough accuracy anyway)

No I mean seriously 90% of the ones I team with o.o

Out of the almost 2 months of always teaming. Ive had a lot of SoA team mates who didnt even take maneuvers (Checked info too)

Whats funny is that I actually counted x.x only 2 Spiders I teamed with out of around 25 had TT:L*and TT:M ( I put 2 stars on them and added a note on them so I remember). Count on them to have TT:A though!

Widows evened it out though because they usually have Maneuvers or Tactics but still not often x.x

x.x Whyyy dont they get Maneuvers? I asked a few in tells and they said it wasnt very good and waste of endurance (WTF!?!) Yes a FEW. Others said theyll get it later (this was said by a lvl 34 crab spider) and some just dont reply.

>.<

Okay I understand the accuracy one...But why skip the 10% defense for Soldiers and 5% for widows (I actually expected more widows to skip TT:M but its the opposite with the people I get teamed with)

I kick VEATs from teams for not having TT:Maneuvers. The rest of the TTs I could care less about, but Maneuvers is a must. Not having Maneuvers is a reflection of a lack of understanding of how the basics of the game works. A few are willing to learn and I keep them on the team till their next level when they can go and get Maneuvers. The rest, I just one star and try to never group with again. The regulars I play with have similar thoughts on the matter, so I'm not the only one with little patience for stupidity.

The 1 star tracking of those people has been such a time saver, especially when joining pugs for TFs in the later levels.

Have you guys seen Dominators without single holds? I saw one at lvl 42. I wonder how he made it that far without that single hold....


I've seen a few SoA without Maneuvers but not 90%.

My first build for my Night Widow was pretty messed up, and I don't think I ended up getting TT:Maneuvers until 35. But that was a case of not knowing what I was doing. I've since respeced into it much sooner, and my other SoAs all have it, even the ones in their teens. TT:Leadership, I like to get, although much later, if it fits.

As for TT:Assault, I don't have any with it in their builds. Although I'm planning on adding it for them all when I19 comes around.

Also, I did have TT:Vengeance but not a travel power for a while on my Night Widow, but that was more because I'd never had Vengeance and wanted to try it out. After I hit 60 months, I swapped Combat Jumping for Super Jump.

ETA: Oh, and as for how many SoAs I see with or without Maneuvers, I'd have to say the vast majority that I've encountered do have it.

Wow you guys* are lucky with getting VEAT members x.x

Per tactical training maneuvers:
In my experience it's for either of these reasons:
They usually skip it because of the leadership pool: maneuvers, with a similar name, is an incredibly low +def power. As such they don't realize the Arachnos one is so far superior in its numbers.
They skip it because it's a 'team buff,' not realizing the values are high enough to be worthwhile even solo.

Tactics?
Arachnos builds are tight, and while hitting stuff is good, basic accuracy slotting is usually enough to hit things. As such, picking/slotting/running an extra toggle is not always advantageous.

The lesson to learn? Kindly inform all your spider buddies (specifically soldiers) that their maneuvers are more akin to the forcefield big bubble than the pool power. Heck, slotted up it's almost akin to giving their soldier all the super reflexes toggles at once. What super spider soldier doesn't want to have super reflexes?

I'm normally a very civil and non-confrontational person, buuuuut....

begin rant

If you're a Spider, please, for the love of God, PLEASE, take TT:M TT:A, TT:L, Maneuvers, Assault. You'll be providing %20 Def and %30 buff to all teammates within a 60' radius. Yes, 60', that's pretty huge. It's not like FF dispersion bubble with a 20' radius, this is 3 times the size. If you're a Spider with pets, they will ALSO receive these buffs and basically become tanks as well. Once you're on a team with multiple VEATs who do the same, you'll realize why it angers me SOOOOO much when this doesn't happen. The potential is so great, but many Spiders just don't realize it.

I'm on a blueside SG of all VEATs and we completely crush everything in sight with ease. Know what's better than me being softcapped with a constant +200 dmg buff? The rest of my team, my 6 pets, and my team's pets all being soft-capped with a +200 dmg buff.

Talk about endurance issues all you want, but with some end reduction slot you can make this work EASILY. At least make a second build and try this out if you don't believe me.

end rant

If you're on Virtue and would be interested in joining our blueside VEAT SG or just teaming with us, let me know.

@Blue Ruckus
Blue Ruckus PPD

All of my SoA get TT:Manuevers at level 10. No exceptions. Sure, the Widow version isn't actually as good as the Soldier version, it's only 5% compared to 10%. But both are better than 3.5%, and the End cost is about half of the Pool version as well. You might as well play a Scrapper and not take any of your defenses.

Seriously, what have you got at low level without Manuevers? You've got the Soldier armor. Something like 3% Res to Smashing and Lethal there. You've got Combat Training: Defensive. That's 7.5% Defense to either Ranged or Melee, depending on whether you're a Soldier or Widow. And you've got Indomitable Will which, you know, helps a little if you're being attacked by a Fortunata. You expect to survive on that?

Now, most of my characters will either take TT:Assault or TT:Leadership, but not both. And they aren't as much of a priority, I have one SoA where on one of my dual builds I took Assault, but on the other I took STAMINA. Seriously, it was just to get a little bit of a damage boost out of my slots so I could make it to 20 and take Stamina, once I got to 20 it because an unused build. I will probably work Assault back in, but it's no so important it can't wait until higher level, at least after the 24 respec.

In fact, the main reason I'm taking Leadership is conceptual, my character is a investigative type and very observant, so I want him to have Perception. I'm also giving him CT: Offensive, as I want him to have as high a to hit as possible with Sands of Mu, as I intend to make him a melee Bane.

Personally I take all the built in toggles for SoA's. My Widow is my highest (Bane is still in mid 30's) but each one has all of the SoA Specific toggles.

I've heard reasons from a good many sources as to why they chose to leave out one toggle or another and in a few cases the logic was understandble, but I still think they bring so much to the table solo that they are very worth taking even if that toon never teams with anyone his entire career.

The guide I have in my Sig is a bit outdated but the opinions I express on the toggles are still relevant.

Now as for auto blacklisting any SoA who doesn't take them - I think that is a tad extreme. As long as the player is contributing to the team I am usually ok with however they build their toon.

its called being farmed up and picking random powers

I feel a need to create a SoA without any of these "must have or they will be kicked" powers.

Question for anybody who kicks a player for not having that power.

Were you worse off? Did they contribute any less?

I have NEVER joined a team that has kicked a player because somebody hasnt had X power This coming from a server which has many "different" builds. Can never understand why people say a character is less effective/not wanted if they dont. Sure they might not provide more stat buff to the team, but they might be contributing more to other aspects just as well.

Oh and for the record, my dom doesnt have a single target hold [grav/earth] and has had NO complaints

Suggest powers are more usefull/should be higher priority for X purpose for sure, but dont go around saying "you must have this power or your a noob and will be kicked", just makes it look like YOU dont know how the game works to be blunt.

Might as well make a tank without defensive toggles and an MM without pets while you're at it.

I would never kick anyone for not having a particular power, as long as they're contributing I'm totally cool with it. However, you're really doing a disservice to yourself and the team if you don't take these powers in questions. Debate it all you want, but that's the downright truth.