Soloability...The Movement Forward.


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
Seeing the OP's attitude through his posts, it's no wonder he doesn't team often.

You should expect a multiplayer game to include some content that requires multiple players.
Multiplayer isn't "team" specific. Multiple players doing whatever they choose. It's a common misconception t assume that "multi" means required for certain aspects too.
Just an error of perspective.


 

Posted

anyway srs time:

Cole and Richter teamed with each other to find the well of the furies. so umm..it's in cannon. They got their incarnate powers while teaming/hanging out with each other.


@MrsAlphaOne
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAlphaOne View Post
anyway srs time:

Cole and Richter teamed with each other to find the well of the furies. so umm..it's in cannon. They got their incarnate powers while teaming/hanging out with each other.
Good for them.
Again, many more plotlines with singular characters getting them then teams.
Majority Solo. Point proven.
And since my answer has already been explained by Bill I'm off. No need to tarry with those who aren;t willing to have open minds.


 

Posted

The_Britisher,

I love your attitude: If somebody disagrees, they can't read. If they do agree, then they've finally seen your point.


Learn to argue, and you'll see that the rest of us can read.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

And now you're also seeing what I spent years up against. It's just not worth it.

Mulitplayer means that you CAN team with other people. It does NOT mean you have to.

Thankfully there WILL be solo-centric paths for the incarnate stuff. It will probably be much slower than going the team route, but it will be there. Or at least, the devs have stated as much but with the recent overhaul they may very well have dumped that plan. We won't know until we know, obviously.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Britisher View Post
Good for them.
Again, many more plotlines with singular characters getting them then teams.
Majority Solo. Point proven.
And since my answer has already been explained by Bill I'm off. No need to tarry with those who aren;t willing to have open minds.
This isn't an MMO based off of Batman, Superman, Incredible Hulk ect.

This is an MMO based off of the universe of Marcus Cole and Stephan Richter. They TEAMED with each other and got their incarnate powers, (they used to be best friends actually)
See the common denominator?

BTW in WoW, I'd love to see you solo the Lich King. Fraps it plz.


@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
[url="http://www.freewebs.com/mrsalphaone"]DA![/url]
[color=red]Official Beer Wench of PWNZ[/color] Arc 452196 When Madness Reigns over Reason. Play it and PM me your constructive criticism on what I can tweak before Oct 20th. <3 U all

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Britisher View Post
Multiplayer isn't multi-teaming.
Wait, what is multi-teaming?

Multiplayer means "more than one player." Expect some interaction. If you don't like it, you can solo, and have access to most of the rewards I do. You'll have all but a few badges, but our characters' performance will be no different.

Soloing is your choice. A task force is a group activity. Despite your ability to solo it or not, by design it is a team activity. If you so strongly oppose teaming, then you have chosen to give up these activities unless you work around it (by methods already mentioned in this thread).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Britisher View Post
And as for teaming, you've made a bold assumption based on a smattering of words.
I make judgment based on what I see. Your later posts include many more spelling errors than your early ones, indicating a rising anger and an inability to cope with it. No one has been insulting, they just disagree. I can see how that attitude makes it hard to find people who want to team with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Britisher View Post
As with veryone else. Learn to read. I was thorough for a reason. It's no surprise one gets annyoed when others denegrate to sniping, skimming, and poor commenting as a result.
If you put a concerted effort into a thought, and spent time trying to cover as many angles as possible to avoid having to rehash every minute vaiable time and again...and again, then you might be annoyed too.
The people who replied to you put just as much thought into their posts as you did your first. They have valid arguments. Your dismissal of them and implications of trolling are uncalled for. In a public forum, expect to be disagreed with. If you can't handle people who don't agree with you, keep your fingers off the keyboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Mulitplayer means that you CAN team with other people. It does NOT mean you have to.
Multiplayer does NOT mean that the game cannot include some aspects which require teaming.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
And now you're also seeing what I spent years up against. It's just not worth it.

Mulitplayer means that you CAN team with other people. It does NOT mean you have to.

Thankfully there WILL be solo-centric paths for the incarnate stuff. It will probably be much slower than going the team route, but it will be there. Or at least, the devs have stated as much but with the recent overhaul they may very well have dumped that plan. We won't know until we know, obviously.

Awesome. Thanks dude. One thing I also forgot to mention. I wouldn't even care if merits were only awarded for teaming TFs...
I just want to play as much content a possible alone. Since the Incarnate system has new missions, then thats why I'd want to play it.
In the end, the only things that really keep people interested are game content and what we choose to add to it with our own creativity.
I happen to choose, nowadays, to do that solo as the solitidue is more enjoyable. Shame that the Devs don;t have interest in appealing to all aspects for such a simple request. I would likely be a huge boon for little effort.
Take Care Bill.

Good Luck all.


 

Posted

And for whoever asked the insanely dumb question of "if you solo why do you need incarnate stuff," I solo and need IOs to do it. What's the difference?

With IOs I can run at +4/x8 w/ bosses and have soloed a good number of AVs. Without IOs, I couldn't do these things. With incarnate abilities I'll be able to solo some of the things I'm unable to solo now.

Incarnate abilities are character advancement. If you don't see the "need" for that, then don't bother even slotting TOs.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsAlphaOne View Post
This isn't an MMO based off of Batman, Superman, Incredible Hulk ect.

This is an MMO based off of the universe of Marcus Cole and Stephan Richter. They TEAMED with each other and got their incarnate powers, (they used to be best friends actually)
See the common denominator?

BTW in WoW, I'd love to see you solo the Lich King. Fraps it plz.
Hamidon is always solo. There's some more canon for you. Please note the single "n."


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
And now you're also seeing what I spent years up against. It's just not worth it.

Mulitplayer means that you CAN team with other people. It does NOT mean you have to.

Thankfully there WILL be solo-centric paths for the incarnate stuff. It will probably be much slower than going the team route, but it will be there. Or at least, the devs have stated as much but with the recent overhaul they may very well have dumped that plan. We won't know until we know, obviously.
Right.

There is nothing in the game you have to team for.

Merits, check. Can do missions or Oro arcs. Some of which were even old TFs.

Hero Merits, check. This has to be the biggest solo boon created.

Tickets, check. AE seems to have been designed for solo farmers to custom critters to their S/L capped toons.

XP, check. Difficulty sliders means you don't even need those bothersome door sitters to plow through x8 sized spawns. We'll even remove the bosses for you.

AVs, mostly. There are certainly a number of ATs that can. You can also get these missions on your own and spawn them as EBs for the badges.

So in a game that has catered to solo play, which mind you is a good thing, what is the problem of leaving a small aspect of the game geared to teaming?

If you like this idea, can you answer the following:
(1) Do you think the number of teams doing TF/SF content will drastically reduce like the number of teams offering PLs in PI did? If not, why do you think they won't?

(2) If the devs make it challenging enough to offer merits, do you think that everyone will be able to solo it?

(3) If not, how do you propose to help the people who currently can find a team for any TF pretty much any time would go through this content? Let's assume a FF def, Sonic def, pre pet emp troller, pre stamina tank, etc.

(4) Why do you feel it's unreasonable to have content that's team only, when the same rewards can be achieved in other manners in the game? There is no exclusive shineys (other than hami-o's that you can not get in game solo)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
And for whoever asked the insanely dumb question of "if you solo why do you need incarnate stuff," I solo and need IOs to do it. What's the difference?

With IOs I can run at +4/x8 w/ bosses and have soloed a good number of AVs. Without IOs, I couldn't do these things. With incarnate abilities I'll be able to solo some of the things I'm unable to solo now.

Incarnate abilities are character advancement. If you don't see the "need" for that, then don't bother even slotting TOs.
That was me, Bill. I can solo without IOs. You solo at at extreme setting, and need IOs to do it. You don't need IOs to solo. That is the point. You need them to do the content at harder setting, but you don't need them to do the content.

I see the need for character advancement. I don't see a particular need to get the Incarnate slots for that to happen, that is my point. Certainly, you CAN do it, but you don't NEED to do it to play the rest of the game.

If, for instance, you couldn't do the level 45-50 content without using IOs, and you could only get IOs if you teamed, then that would be a problem. But neither of those is true. Teaming just makes IOs a bit easier to get, and so you can get to a point where you can solo at +4/+8 faster. But you can still get there even if you solo the entire time.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Hamidon is always solo.
What about the mitos? Or are they negligible since they're so cute and tiny?


Pinnacle
@Mr.Catastrophe

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catastrophe View Post
What about the mitos?
And the Monsters.


@MrsAlphaOne
Member of the [url="http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=171543&TabID=1451954"]RIMC[/url]
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catastrophe View Post
What about the mitos? Or are they negligible since they're so cute and tiny?
Also, even Tyrant needed help in fighting the Hamidon wars. If he had taken him down solo, you might have a point here.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
So in a game that has catered to solo play, which mind you is a good thing, what is the problem of leaving a small aspect of the game geared to teaming?

If you like this idea, can you answer the following:
(1) Do you think the number of teams doing TF/SF content will drastically reduce like the number of teams offering PLs in PI did? If not, why do you think they won't?

(2) If the devs make it challenging enough to offer merits, do you think that everyone will be able to solo it?

(3) If not, how do you propose to help the people who currently can find a team for any TF pretty much any time would go through this content? Let's assume a FF def, Sonic def, pre pet emp troller, pre stamina tank, etc.

(4) Why do you feel it's unreasonable to have content that's team only, when the same rewards can be achieved in other manners in the game? There is no exclusive shineys (other than hami-o's that you can not get in game solo)
These questions were actually part of the reason I gave up on this line of request.

There are performance boosting accolades that one MUST team (or at least team long enough to start the TF/SFs in question) to get, so the precedent already exists in game for forced teaming to achieve comparable performance.

But to answer your questions:

1: I do not think that the number of teams running TF/SFs will be changed in either way were such events opened to soloists. They won't change because those that enjoy teaming team up. This change will not alter player preference.

2: No. As per my post, there would be ample warning of the probability of failure.

3: Nothing needs to change. There are already events in normal content that people fail regularly and seek help from other players to accomplish. I see tells all the time of people asking for assistance fighting some particularly nasty EB.

4: I personally find team only content absurd when I'm capable of soloing it.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
That was me, Bill. I can solo without IOs. You solo at at extreme setting, and need IOs to do it. You don't need IOs to solo. That is the point. You need them to do the content at harder setting, but you don't need them to do the content.

I see the need for character advancement. I don't see a particular need to get the Incarnate slots for that to happen, that is my point. Certainly, you CAN do it, but you don't NEED to do it to play the rest of the game.

If, for instance, you couldn't do the level 45-50 content without using IOs, and you could only get IOs if you teamed, then that would be a problem. But neither of those is true. Teaming just makes IOs a bit easier to get, and so you can get to a point where you can solo at +4/+8 faster. But you can still get there even if you solo the entire time.
Aett, I want you to read your own post again.

Now understand that incarnate abilities ARE character advancement.

Now see that your post makes absolutely no sense. I don't need to slot anything to solo from one to 50. I could make a character and leave it at trained level 1 with a combat level of 50. Seems like a pointless exercise to me. Much like ignoring any other performance boosting character advancement. Like incarnate abilities.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catastrophe View Post
What about the mitos? Or are they negligible since they're so cute and tiny?
Mitos are different than mastermind pets or controller pets how?


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

As a hardcore soloist in a VG full of hardcore soloists, I actually enjoy being forced to team for SFs. If "team only" content became soloable, I'd never team, and neither would my friends, and if there's one thing I've learned: 8 hardcore soloists can do AMAZING things when teamed and aiming for a common goal. The most enjoyable and spectacular moments in my 5+ years of CoV gaming occurred while teamed on a SF. SFs are the only time we get to show off our multi-billion inf toons to our friends. I for one look forward to being "forced" to team on the new Incarnate level content, and I doubt it will be solo friendly.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha-One View Post
As a hardcore soloist in a VG full of hardcore soloists, I actually enjoy being forced to team for SFs. If "team only" content became soloable, I'd never team, and neither would my friends, and if there's one thing I've learned: 8 hardcore soloists can do AMAZING things when teamed and aiming for a common goal. The most enjoyable and spectacular moments in my 5+ years of CoV gaming occurred while teamed on a SF. SFs are the only time we get to show off our multi-billion inf toons to our friends. I for one look forward to being "forced" to team on the new Incarnate level content, and I doubt it will be solo friendly.
So the only time you would ever team up to show off your multibillion inf build is when you're forced to.

Ok. Dumb. But ok. I team when I get bored of soloing. Not when I'm forced to.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Bill I appreciate a straightforward response even if I don't agree with it.

Let me ask a follow up.

Given the total drop off on PL type teams in PI once the slider was introduced, why would you not expect a very steep drop off on teaming for TFs? I personally think that many of the hard core people who form the TFs now are the same people that would happily solo it since they have IOed out toons and are hardcore min/maxers who want more merits.

I personally think that those same hardcore are also the ones driven enough to get teams and TFs going every day. Although that's just opinion and conjecture.

No one ran any of the longer TFs for anything other than the accolades before merits. So I find it hard to believe that it's really a content issue for the most part.


 

Posted

<QR>

Reminder to those who take the position that this is an MMO therefore you have to team: there are times when teaming or building a team of sufficient size is not an option unless you are on Freedom or Virtue.

Incarnate stuff is level 50 only. The more level 50s required to do it the fewer the people who will be able to participate in it and enjoy it.

You are welcome to hold the position of "too bad you need to team to get to do content" but that boils down to telling some people they may as well unsub which is not healthy to us all in the long run.

Also, almost all content is far easier on teams than it is soloing unless your teammates are complete morons. If anything stuff like the Incarnate stuff is less meaningful to team players than to soloists.

And ultimately in the end I don't care if someone wants to try to solo everything including the Hamidon. That does not negatively impact my gameplay. So I am all for lowering all things to being able to start solo even if it will not be possible for anyone to solo it.

Let's face it, if you have to force someone to team with you to accomplish something how much enjoyment are you and they really getting from being together to do it?


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
So the only time you would ever team up to show off your multibillion inf build is when you're forced to.

Ok. Dumb. But ok. I team when I get bored of soloing. Not when I'm forced to.
Notice the finger quotes around the word "forced" (see I did it again). Nobody twists my arm to go run a MoSTF or CoP trial, nor do I run them simply because I'm bored. I run them because I want to, and I run them on teams because I have to, and I have lots of fun doing them. I hate PUGing through regular content and I totally believe I level faster running solo because I'm not constantly managing and waiting for teammates. But if I could get the MoSTF badge solo, why would I get together with 7 other people to do it? And would those 7 other people be able to get the badge solo too?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Aett, I want you to read your own post again.

Now understand that incarnate abilities ARE character advancement.

Now see that your post makes absolutely no sense. I don't need to slot anything to solo from one to 50. I could make a character and leave it at trained level 1 with a combat level of 50. Seems like a pointless exercise to me. Much like ignoring any other performance boosting character advancement. Like incarnate abilities.
I understand that Incarnate abilities ARE character advancement, Bill. Much as SOs or IOs are. The point is, you don't need them to solo, much as you don't need IOs to solo. I would say that you need to slot some enhancements in order to solo, unless you are prepared to go at what I think everyone would agree is an unacceptable rate of advancement through this game.

However, you can advance your character to the point where you don't need to team to do any of the content. That to me seems to indicate that the team content should be made harder, not that the content should be made so that you can solo it.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

After reading this entire thread, I really don't understand the strong feelings on either side.

For one, it's an MMO, and teaming is certainly heavily implied, even if not explicitly stated.

For two, what possible harm comes from the ability to solo TF's? I personally don't think it will make TF teams that scarce, considering how many still team for the Ouroboros ones.

To me this seems to get summed up in "If it aint broke, why fix it?" You can easily wrangle up some people to pad, and the idiots Billz so aptly posited are still protected from their defective brains.

The only thing I really feel passionately about is this: Contractions are abbreviated by apostrophes, not semi-colons.

Of course those that disagree with me on any point are trolls...