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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So I finally started to grind out some hero merits (because hey there isn't much to do).
1 Hero merit = 11 tip missions or 50 Merits + 20 million influence (Can get 50 merits from Synapse I think which can be run in about an hour to hour and a half). Can earn one once every 20 or 24 hours. 1 Piece of Glad Jav set = 25-30 Hero Merits 1 Full set = 165 Merits 5 Pieces of Apoc = 100 Merits Say you are looking at a Psi/EM 3 sets of glad javs + 1 set of apocs. (3 x 165) + 100 = 595 hero merits to have your standard range offensive toon slotted out for PvP. To be able to do that you'd also need 11.9 Billion influence (if you are converting normal merits) and run the Synapse TF around 600 times. Or you would need to do 6,545 tip missions. You would need to do the Synapse TF every day for over a year and a half. (Synapse TF is 15 missions long though some are deliveries. Either way adds up to 9,000 missions) You can only get 5 tips per day, taking you 2 days to earn a hero merit that way. Off tips alone you would need to do 5 missions 1 day, 6 the next and after 3 and a quarter years you'd have your blaster's main attacks PvPIO/Purpled out. Awesome. |
How much collaboration with Arcanaville did it take to arrive at these statistical values and may I see your tables and algorithmic formula?
I need to stop hanging out under this bridge..it's about to burn. d;D
Or just buy and flip lotg procs
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Yeah I know there are easier ways to go about actually getting them that require much less effort. This system however allows us a little glimpse into what the devs feel is an acceptable rate to IO out a build for PvP. (Well at least 4 attacks)
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
Or just buy and flip lotg procs
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a bunch of us are making some phat loot on purples and pvp ios because of this reward system. we are really looking forward to some purples and pvp ios hitting the 1 bil mark and certain proc (looking at you my precious little panacea proc muahahaha!) hitting the 2 bil mark. after that point we will be able to make trades off market on more than just the glad armor proc. |
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So I finally started to grind out some hero merits (because hey there isn't much to do).
1 Hero merit = 11 tip missions or 50 Merits + 20 million influence (Can get 50 merits from Synapse I think which can be run in about an hour to hour and a half). Can earn one once every 20 or 24 hours. 1 Piece of Glad Jav set = 25-30 Hero Merits 1 Full set = 165 Merits 5 Pieces of Apoc = 100 Merits Say you are looking at a Psi/EM 3 sets of glad javs + 1 set of apocs. (3 x 165) + 100 = 595 hero merits to have your standard range offensive toon slotted out for PvP. To be able to do that you'd also need 11.9 Billion influence (if you are converting normal merits) and run the Synapse TF around 600 times. Or you would need to do 6,545 tip missions. You would need to do the Synapse TF every day for over a year and a half. (Synapse TF is 15 missions long though some are deliveries. Either way adds up to 9,000 missions) You can only get 5 tips per day, taking you 2 days to earn a hero merit that way. Off tips alone you would need to do 5 missions 1 day, 6 the next and after 3 and a quarter years you'd have your blaster's main attacks PvPIO/Purpled out. Awesome. |
i would like to take this time to thank the devs for low drop rates, unreasonable alignment merit costs for purples and pvp ios, repetitive missions, time restrictions for earning alignment merits and for keeping an uncontrolled market system where i can dry up recipes and enhancements of my choice then trickle them back in at a much higher rate.
luv u devs! keep it working as intended!
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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From a game design point of view its all about how long does it takes you to launch new content. The common calculation is "new content after twice the time you need to completely explore the current content" (ie to achieve "best gear").
Now if you take the exemple of Champions Online; the "best gear", through either PvP or dayly task can be achieved in almost one year. You can than expect they plan one introducing new content after two years.
On some more wealthy structure with a bigger player base you can achieve "best gear" in about 2 or 3 month and therefore expect new content every 4 or 6 month.
It is never stricly stable, some updates may encounter delays or other unexpected issues.
If you take CoX's case. You really have new content only every 20 month or so (proliferations or costume pieces no being stricly speaking new "content") so its not crazy to expect players to spend about 10 month to achieve "best gear".
Of course you could argue that it is too long and having to make plans over a year on an online video game is more disgusting than appealing to averagely new players. But at some point you have to realise it is the price to pay to play a very particular game in a very specific universe on an average small structure.
I mean, you cannot really step out fantasy/anime's mainstream and expect shinny new content every couple of month and fast character evolution.
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WHAT NiNETHOUSAND!!!
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Originally Posted by mrliberty
You would need to do the synapse tf every day for over a year and a half. (synapse tf is 15 missions long though some are deliveries. Either way adds up to 9,000 missions)
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jav procs here i come 
. PvE.... here ... i ... come :_(
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I lol'ed irl.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
WHAT NiNETHOUSAND!!!
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Thanks for the calcuations. The requirements for rewards are simply too high in my opinion. I want end game items. I've been playing this game for over 5 years ALREADY, just give me some good rewards for once without having to pay BILLIONS or flip IOs on the market.
Time subscribed = moar money for devs.
Personally, I think making the "IO'ed out" status easier to achieve would make money off of people's altitis, but some efficiency expert has advised against this, I'm sure.
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Ultra rare IOs are ultra rare. WAI.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So I finally started to grind out some hero merits (because hey there isn't much to do).
1 Hero merit = 11 tip missions or 50 Merits + 20 million influence (Can get 50 merits from Synapse I think which can be run in about an hour to hour and a half). Can earn one once every 20 or 24 hours. 1 Piece of Glad Jav set = 25-30 Hero Merits 1 Full set = 165 Merits 5 Pieces of Apoc = 100 Merits Say you are looking at a Psi/EM 3 sets of glad javs + 1 set of apocs. (3 x 165) + 100 = 595 hero merits to have your standard range offensive toon slotted out for PvP. To be able to do that you'd also need 11.9 Billion influence (if you are converting normal merits) and run the Synapse TF around 600 times. Or you would need to do 6,545 tip missions. You would need to do the Synapse TF every day for over a year and a half. (Synapse TF is 15 missions long though some are deliveries. Either way adds up to 9,000 missions) You can only get 5 tips per day, taking you 2 days to earn a hero merit that way. Off tips alone you would need to do 5 missions 1 day, 6 the next and after 3 and a quarter years you'd have your blaster's main attacks PvPIO/Purpled out. Awesome. |
Its because nothing in this game rewards skill. You can get a piece of one of the highest end gear from WoW every 2 weeks through Arena, and that's not even a grind after the first week because you only need 10 games after your ratings are already high. Everything in this game is GRINDAN repeatedly.
Yeah you can argue all MMO games eveutnally boil down to a grind but at least in some games skill is factored in some times as well. COX is 100% grinding.
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Which means if you're going to help me IO out my new corrupter for the Champ league, you don't have spare time to be making long-winded forum posts.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
So I finally started to grind out some hero merits (because hey there isn't much to do).
1 Hero merit = 11 tip missions or 50 Merits + 20 million influence (Can get 50 merits from Synapse I think which can be run in about an hour to hour and a half). Can earn one once every 20 or 24 hours. 1 Piece of Glad Jav set = 25-30 Hero Merits 1 Full set = 165 Merits 5 Pieces of Apoc = 100 Merits Say you are looking at a Psi/EM 3 sets of glad javs + 1 set of apocs. (3 x 165) + 100 = 595 hero merits to have your standard range offensive toon slotted out for PvP. To be able to do that you'd also need 11.9 Billion influence (if you are converting normal merits) and run the Synapse TF around 600 times. Or you would need to do 6,545 tip missions. You would need to do the Synapse TF every day for over a year and a half. (Synapse TF is 15 missions long though some are deliveries. Either way adds up to 9,000 missions) You can only get 5 tips per day, taking you 2 days to earn a hero merit that way. Off tips alone you would need to do 5 missions 1 day, 6 the next and after 3 and a quarter years you'd have your blaster's main attacks PvPIO/Purpled out. Awesome. |
BACK TO THE SYNAPSE SALT MINE!
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This is definitely a cop out response. Lets keep in mind we were talking 3 and a half years to slot out 24 out of 91 slots for a character. I look at my ill/emp build and it has 8 sets of PvP IO's and 2 sets of purples. |
Originally Posted by firespray
Ultra rare IOs are ultra rare. WAI.
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More than double the situation for the Psi/EM.There is a difference between ultra rare being ultra rare and spending the better part of half a decade playing every day 5 missions a day to get the best gear for 1 character in a game that is focused around alts.
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Originally Posted by Pixel
Which means if you're going to help me IO out my new corrupter for the Champ league, you don't have spare time to be making long-winded forum posts.
BACK TO THE SYNAPSE SALT MINE! |
i heard that PvP IOs will be available come i19 at merit vendors right?
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i posted about this before but let's have another look at some of these numbers.|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
This is definitely a cop out response. Lets keep in mind we were talking 3 and a half years to slot out 24 out of 91 slots for a character. I look at my ill/emp build and it has 8 sets of PvP IO's and 2 sets of purples.
More than double the situation for the Psi/EM.There is a difference between ultra rare being ultra rare and spending the better part of half a decade playing every day 5 missions a day to get the best gear for 1 character in a game that is focused around alts. I checked my schedule and it would appear the next 3-5 years of my life are indeed free to grind out all those PvP IO's. You sir are in luck, I'll have your build ready by January 15, 2014. |
1 PVP RECIPE (30 hero villain alignment merit version) FREE METHOD
60 days and 330 missions later = 30 hvams
24 PVP RECIPES (30 hvam version) FREE METHOD
1,440 days and 7,920 missions later = 720 hvams
1 PVP RECIPE (30 hvam version) 1/2 FREE 1/2PAID METHOD
30 days and 165 missions and 750 merits and 300,000,000 inf later = 30 hvams
24 PVP RECIPES(30 hvam version) 1/2 FREE 1/2PAID METHOD
720 days and 3,960 missions and 18,000 merits and 7,200,000,000 inf later = 720 hvams
1 PVP RECIPE (30 hvam version) PAID METHOD
30 days and 1500 merits and 600,000,000 inf later = 30 hvams
24 PVP RECIPES (30 hvam version) PAID METHOD
720 days and 36,000 merits and 14,400,000,000 inf later = 720 hvams
LOL
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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The OP posted an interesting analysis, and if that were the only way to get purples and PVP IOs, it would be a problem. It's not though. Purples and PVP IOs are available pretty freely on the markets, and it's ridiculously easy to make money in this game. Anyone with half a brain could have enough money to trick out a build with PVP IOs and purples in a few months, and that's without working hard at it (certainly much less work than getting all those A-Merits). If you put in the kind of time it would take you to earn that many A-Merits every day, I would venture that you could do it in as little as a month or two. |
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
This is definitely a cop out response. Lets keep in mind we were talking 3 and a half years to slot out 24 out of 91 slots for a character. I look at my ill/emp build and it has 8 sets of PvP IO's and 2 sets of purples.
More than double the situation for the Psi/EM.There is a difference between ultra rare being ultra rare and spending the better part of half a decade playing every day 5 missions a day |
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
get the best gear for 1 character in a game that is focused around alts.
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I would think that common sense would suggest if it is indeed possible to have a build PvPIO'ed out in several months, have it taking 5+ years using A-Merits would mean the conversion rate for them is more than a little low. That's just me though.|
Originally Posted by firespray
The OP posted an interesting analysis, and if that were the only way to get purples and PVP IOs, it would be a problem. It's not though. Purples and PVP IOs are available pretty freely on the markets, and it's ridiculously easy to make money in this game. Anyone with half a brain could have enough money to trick out a build with PVP IOs and purples in a few months, and that's without working hard at it (certainly much less work than getting all those A-Merits). If you put in the kind of time it would take you to earn that many A-Merits every day, I would venture that you could do it in as little as a month or two.
Yes, the game is focused around alts, not having uber-leet level 50s. There is no content that comes close to requiring builds like that. They're something you want, not something you need. If you needed them, I could perhaps agree with you that there was an issue, but you don't. |
As for needing them, that is subjective. If I take my Psi/EM with 0 damage procs vs one with 3 glad javs and 1 apoc, I'm going to lose consistently if we are near the same level when it comes to ability. Its kind of like saying "You don't need to take travel powers to PvP" Sure you don't need them to enter a PvP zone/arena. But you're gonna get your *** handed too you pretty regularly.
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This is true in the noncompetitive PvE environment, but in an environment where there are other players out to get you, it becomes an arms race and if you can't keep up you get left behind. Pre-I13 player skill often overcame any build limitations, but in light of those changes that's not really the case anymore.
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Originally Posted by firespray
Yes, the game is focused around alts, not having uber-leet level 50s. There is no content that comes close to requiring builds like that. They're something you want, not something you need. If you needed them, I could perhaps agree with you that there was an issue, but you don't.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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The problem is that you're looking at A-Merits in a vacuum. If they were the only way to get PVPIOs, then yes, the conversion rate would be WAY too low. They're not the only way to get them though. In fact, they're not even intended as the primary way to get them. |
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I would think that common sense would suggest if it is indeed possible to have a build PvPIO'ed out in several months, have it taking 5+ years using A-Merits would mean the conversion rate for them is more than a little low. That's just me though.
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Look at it this way. You now have one more way to get PVPIOs than you did before I18 hit. It may not be the most efficient way to get them, but it's not like any of the previous methods of getting them became invalid.
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Fair enough. I don't PvP, so I bow to your superior experience. However, I think the rest of my point still stands.
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Originally Posted by macskull
This is true in the noncompetitive PvE environment, but in an environment where there are other players out to get you, it becomes an arms race and if you can't keep up you get left behind. Pre-I13 player skill often overcame any build limitations, but in light of those changes that's not really the case anymore.
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I would love to see a dev pop in here and tell us what the design logic was behind this system. What do you think devs? Is the system fair? If you guys are trying to increase the pvp population it's not very motivating going into a zone knowing you probably won't be rewarded for kills and you have to spend months just getting one pvp set by grinding.
Haven't the devs learned that pvp in this game is lacking motivation? Before balance you have to have motivation. Balance changes can only be made when you have data and statistics to go on. Data and statistics aren't created with empty PvP and arena zones. Why should I pvp? What is my motivation to enter a zone and actually TRY to kill another player besides simple satisfaction? (Which only goes so far) Pvp IO's were a step in the right direction but come on at least make them more obtainable by the masses. Let me do something with Rep to get them if anything. Perhaps cash in Rep for PvP IOs? What is reputation even FOR? I like being solo and seeing +5.00 rep for a kill, but for what? I can get 400 rep in the matter of a week to a month depending on play rate, let us exchange this for some IOs. As of now though I'll just stay at rep cap like I have been at for the past three years.
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This is a pretty ridiculous statement. You don't NEED anything in this game...period.|
Originally Posted by firespray
Yes, the game is focused around alts, not having uber-leet level 50s. There is no content that comes close to requiring builds like that. They're something you want, not something you need. If you needed them, I could perhaps agree with you that there was an issue, but you don't.
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The fact that the devs added IO's and in particular purple IO's (and hami's) is a direct indicator that they have validated the player mentality of 'uber 50's'.
It may not be the most popular playstyle, but it is validated. Using your argument of "need" they could remove the ease of acquiring virtually everything in this game from SO's all the way down to TO's, but because you don't "need" them that would be ok.
Like I said, pretty ridiculous stance.
So I finally started to grind out some hero merits (because hey there isn't much to do).
1 Hero merit = 11 tip missions or 50 Merits + 20 million influence (Can get 50 merits from Synapse I think which can be run in about an hour to hour and a half). Can earn one once every 20 or 24 hours.
1 Piece of Glad Jav set = 25-30 Hero Merits
1 Full set = 165 Merits
5 Pieces of Apoc = 100 Merits
Say you are looking at a Psi/EM 3 sets of glad javs + 1 set of apocs.
(3 x 165) + 100 = 595 hero merits to have your standard range offensive toon slotted out for PvP.
To be able to do that you'd also need 11.9 Billion influence (if you are converting normal merits) and run the Synapse TF around 600 times. Or you would need to do 6,545 tip missions.
You would need to do the Synapse TF every day for over a year and a half. (Synapse TF is 15 missions long though some are deliveries. Either way adds up to 9,000 missions)
You can only get 5 tips per day, taking you 2 days to earn a hero merit that way. Off tips alone you would need to do 5 missions 1 day, 6 the next and after 3 and a quarter years you'd have your blaster's main attacks PvPIO/Purpled out.
Awesome.