A fun hypothetical: Choose your 8 Man Squad- but choose wisely!
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-09-29 16:34 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
With all this talking I decided to run an an ITF at +4/x8 with enemies buffed and completed in about 35 minutes. It wasn't with my ideal team makeup but here's what was on the team:
Sonic/Cold Corr
Fire/Cold Corr
Ice/Kin Corr
DM/SD Scrapper
WP Scrapper
Electric Dom
Ill/Emp Troller
Fortunata
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
My Fire/Shield Scrapper, 6 more hard core Scrappers and one random defender who can door sit. We will die well and repeatedly, serve our time in dev-enforced purgatory, then drink with the fallen in Valhalla.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Read my sig. That is all.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
Agreed. At the very least, there will be less scrappers. |
Originally Posted by Rieze
Read my sig. That is all.
|
That's something we could all benefit from.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
And with Scrappers gone, there'll come a need for some other kind of high damage dealer which doesn't have to go through hoops to get Heroside..|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Agreed. At the very least, there will be less scrappers.
That's something we could all benefit from. |
The time of Blasters shall come again! Mwahahahahaa!
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Werner
My Fire/Shield Scrapper, 6 more hard core Scrappers and one random defender who can door sit. We will die well and repeatedly, serve our time in dev-enforced purgatory, then drink with the fallen in Valhalla.
|
I will be happy to volunteer for your mostly scrapper suicide squad Werner.
Where do I sign my death warrant?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
1. Cold/Sonic Defender
2. Fire/Fire Scrap
3. SS/Fire Brute
4. Fire/Fire Scrap
5. Sonic/Cold Corr (See what i did there 
)
6. Arch/Kin Corr
7. Kin/Arch Defender (I did it again!)
8. Fire/Rad Corr
Quote:
Are you saying a team of scrappers cant finish an ITF in 45 mins? The sig says "ALL" problems.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Agreed. At the very least, there will be less scrappers.
That's something we could all benefit from. |
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
I do think a team of all scrappers would have difficulty finishing a +4/x8 ITF in 45 minutes. But that's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying we'd all be better off with less scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Rieze
Are you saying a team of scrappers cant finish an ITF in 45 mins? The sig says "ALL" problems.
|
I don't care what you think a team of all scrappers can do. A team of all defenders or all corruptors can do it faster.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
1.PB
2.PB
3.PB
4.PB
5.PB
6.PB
7.PB
8. something to kill all those voids >.>
lol this would be a amazing team! >.> kinda....sorta....
Quote:
I sincerely hope this is a joke. The guy who not only defied the stereotype of DA Sucks! but made a mockery of it couldn't possibly transfer that alienation onto another. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
All I'm saying we'd all be better off with less scrappers.
|
I cant comprehend that the guy who enjoys the frenetic pace of mirelock would frown upon his scrapperlocked brother.
There is enough bias around here, there is no need to propagate any more.
Quote:
Meh. My teams move faster with defenders in the place of scrappers. Scrappers are awesome, no doubt about it. There just seems to be waaaaay too many of 'em.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I sincerely hope this is a joke. The guy who not only defied the stereotype of DA Sucks! but made a mockery of it couldn't possibly transfer that alienation onto another.
I cant comprehend that the guy who enjoys the frenetic pace of mirelock would frown upon his scrapperlocked brother. There is enough bias around here, there is no need to propagate any more. |
What I said was still a joke. Call it hyperbole if you like. Someone says "You can solve any problem by throwing more scappers at it" and I immediately think "but it'd be better to throw more defenders." It was a slightly snarky response. A witty retort. An attempt to be funny. Apparently I just failed.
Maybe I should be more clear. I never turn any AT, any powerset, or any concept build down when I'm running a TF. Bring me your tired, your poor, your petless MMs, your pure empaths... Hell, I've taken a level 36 regen scrapper along for an MoITF. I'm never going to say "I don't want that on my team."
But I still prefer almost anything over a scrapper.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Indeed.
|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
I sincerely hope this is a joke. The guy who not only defied the stereotype of DA Sucks! but made a mockery of it couldn't possibly transfer that alienation onto another.
I cant comprehend that the guy who enjoys the frenetic pace of mirelock would frown upon his scrapperlocked brother. There is enough bias around here, there is no need to propagate any more. |
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
Fair enough, I prefer someone who will make me laugh my *** off, I don't need bragging rights, I'm here to be entertained.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
But I still prefer almost anything over a scrapper.
|
Quote:
Again, don't get me wrong. I'm here for the fun too.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Fair enough, I prefer someone who will make me laugh my *** off, I don't need bragging rights, I'm here to be entertained.
|
When someone tells me "I can bring a scrapper or an X, which do you want?" my reply is always "Whichever you'll enjoy more."
If the reply to that is "I don't care which I play," then, depending on my team makeup already, I'll either ask for the X or say "flip a coin."
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Your logic is instead of having the power to knock down the steel wall, you would rather make the steel wall weak as tissue paper. Fair enough, I suppose. I tend to offend a lot of people with my qoute. I normaly get that same defender response you gave or someone saying "except againts Ghost Widow" One of those is personal prefence and the other is just plain wrong. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Meh. My teams move faster with defenders in the place of scrappers. Scrappers are awesome, no doubt about it. There just seems to be waaaaay too many of 'em.
What I said was still a joke. Call it hyperbole if you like. Someone says "You can solve any problem by throwing more scappers at it" and I immediately think "but it'd be better to throw more defenders." It was a slightly snarky response. A witty retort. An attempt to be funny. Apparently I just failed. Maybe I should be more clear. I never turn any AT, any powerset, or any concept build down when I'm running a TF. Bring me your tired, your poor, your petless MMs, your pure empaths... Hell, I've taken a level 36 regen scrapper along for an MoITF. I'm never going to say "I don't want that on my team." But I still prefer almost anything over a scrapper. |
The reason you see so many scrappers is because they are still that damn good. Reguardless of any person's personal prefence for Buff/Debuff ATs or horrid myths in dealing with particular NPC AVs (Looking at you Protien, Ghost Widow, and Healing Nictus).
Truth is, any AT can do any content if played right. I just happen to like the flip out and kill tactic or the beat them while they aren't moving tactic more so then the make them weak and feeble first tactic or shoot them from far away tactic. (Several ATs allow for more then one tactic and play those too) They all can be done really fast or really slow.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
I'm not denying the power of scrappers. I'm vehemently advocating, though, the much greater power of defenders. It's no surprise that the fastest TF times are all done with all defender teams. Look at the Repeat Offenders. The devs have stated that these guys (using all defender teams) have been making stupidly difficult tasks into trivial matters since day one.|
Originally Posted by Rieze
Your logic is instead of having the power to knock down the steel wall, you would rather make the steel wall weak as tissue paper.
... The reason you see so many scrappers is because they are still that damn good. |
A good scrapper is a force to be reckoned with on his own, and few defenders can compare when they are solo. When you start adding scrappers, however, that's all you're doing. As you add defenders into the mix, you multiply power. This is the main reason I'd rather have something else on the team. A scrapper is awesome. A support character makes the whole team awesome.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rieze
Truth is, any AT can do any content if played right. I just happen to like the flip out and kill tactic or the beat them while they aren't moving tactic more so then the make them weak and feeble first tactic or shoot them from far away tactic. (Several ATs allow for more then one tactic and play those too) They all can be done really fast or really slow.
|
I respect your desire to flip out and kill stuff, too. It's a great way to play the game. I always say "if you're having fun, you're not doing anything wrong."
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I love scrappers as much as anyone in terms of style, but in terms of performance, there's no way anyone with even a bit of knowlege about how the game works could argue that a team of scrappers will move through content as fast as a team of buff/debuffers. Stacking buffs/debuffs are FAR more powerful than anything scrappers bring to a team, and those at's generally (not in every single case...) have superior aoe ability as well.
Quote:
So....|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
A good scrapper is a force to be reckoned with on his own, and few defenders can compare when they are solo. When you start adding scrappers, however, that's all you're doing. As you add defenders into the mix, you multiply power. This is the main reason I'd rather have something else on the team. A scrapper is awesome. A support character makes the whole team awesome.
|
What I'm hearing is that stacking buffs are broken as hell and need to be fixed?
(taps mike)
Hello? Devs? When you gonna fix this?
Also:
Eight damage-spec scrappers with eight sets of tactics/manuevers/assault.
Go weep in a corner, everybody else.
I19: Rise of the Wolfpack!
Quote:
The last we heard was acknowledgment from the devs that yes, stacking buffs and debuffs (not just buffs) is broken as hell. It is beyond the scope of possibility to fix, as it would require redesigning the game from the ground up.
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
So....
What I'm hearing is that stacking buffs are broken as hell and need to be fixed? |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
8 top tier scrappers and it's on
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
I'm with Dechs completely on this topic. The goal is to have fun, but you can't be paying attention and still conclude that more scrappers is better than more defenders.
Quote:
The metaphor trailed off a bit too soon. The defenders will make the wall as weak as tissue paper and then destroy it faster than the scrappers knocked it down with brute force.|
Originally Posted by Rieze
Your logic is instead of having the power to knock down the steel wall, you would rather make the steel wall weak as tissue paper. Fair enough, I suppose.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rieze
The reason you see so many scrappers is because they are still that damn good.
|
The last time I know we were given hard data on AT popularity (2 years ago), Blasters were winning out by a bit (with Scrappers the closest behind). They are simple, can solo, and will give you the immediate gratification of anything on default difficulty dropping dead in seconds. Not many advocate (then or now) that Blaster's are inherently better than Defenders. Popularity is traced to other factors.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
I'd personally rather have a team of 7 Defenders/Corrs and 1 Scrapper than 7 Defenders/Corrs and 1 Tanker.
Survivability won't be an issue with that many support characters and a Scrapper will contribute much more damage. Support characters are force multipliers, Scrapper force > Tanker force.
The advantage a Tanker would have is that with Taunt auras, Gauntlet and Taunt they can gather stuff up real nice for AoEs, but /Inv /WP and /SD Scrappers can do that too.
In the real world, however, very few Scrappers know how to play on a team. Tankers too, but IME less often.
Which reminds me, need to get a move on with my melee guide. Ach.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
Doom?
|
Originally Posted by Silas
Which reminds me, need to get a move on with my melee guide. Ach.
|
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
corrs upon corrs