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Tankers are made of awesome, so no. |
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
So I want to know. Is it possible for any other class to approach the awesomeness of this character? |
If you mean to ask "Can other ATs solo at high rep and compete at the same level as Tankers?"
Yes, depending on what level this is happening, what enemy groups you're facing, etc etc.
If you ran an unslotted defence-based Tanker through a 0/*8 Bobcat map and compared that to say a Dominator, Controller or Mastermind doing the same map and rep, with the defense debuffs of Bobcats the Tanker will probably be doing worse than the other ATs. However if you were say a Fire/SS tanker and you're going up against Infernal's Demons, and compared that to a fire/fire blaster, the tanker would perform better due to being able to resist the inferal's fire-based attacks, while the blaster is having their attacks resisted.
The "WAI class imbalance" is purely situational and designed that to be that way, can a fire/kin troller stand in the middle of a 4/*8 no bosses spawn at the aggro cap and be able to go afk to use the toilet and still be alive when they return? Probably not, but they sure can kill faster.
It seems you like Tankers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't start complaining when you're level 20 defender jumps in the middle of a spawn on *8 solo and gets destroyed.
Ah, another Fire/Fire. I knew there was more than just me and Grey Pilgrim. Welcome to the club. And no, few things handle excessively large spawns solo better than a Tanker, and with Fire's mix of AoE and ST damage, they can handle "with bosses" very comfortably. I'm also quite fond of Rise of the Phoenix - if you're in a bit over your head, or a damage spike comes through at a bad time, Rise gets you up, re-toggled, and able to hunt down a boss while everything else is stunned.
One of the problems, though, is that Tankers stack very badly. On a team of 8, more than about 2 tankers will result in aggro fights, as each tank tries to position for their own AoEs. Blasters, on the other hand, don't really support each other, but at least they don't get in each other's way. Dominators can alternate their slow-recharge controls, and stack their faster ones to take out troublesome bosses. And, of course, stacked Controllers, Defenders, and Corruptors can turn anything into an engine of destruction. While they're not going to perform as well solo, they're fantastic force multipliers.
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Ever been to a Tanker Tuesday? Try an experienced all-Tanker team out.|
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
One of the problems, though, is that Tankers stack very badly. On a team of 8, more than about 2 tankers will result in aggro fights, as each tank tries to position for their own AoEs.
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Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Blasters, on the other hand, don't really support each other, but at least they don't get in each other's way.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I also have a 50 fire/fire tank that I really enjoyed leveling up. My other tanks aren't 50 and aren't suited for damage, so he's fun to bring out. For the same reason I think he's more fun to group with other tanks since I can play him more like a scrapper. There are a lot of other characters that can handle higher than single difficultly, but that depends on playstyle. I also have a warshade, it's a long journey, but nice when you get up there.
If you like fire/fire, maybe try a fire/fire brute (I also have one at 50) or a fire/fire scrapper. They'll play a little differently but also fun.
I built mine for +HP, Recharge and some Melee def I believe. He's been quite sturdy since then, even when I ran Posi and Synapse.
Don't I know you???
Well I am a tanker fan too (majority of my toons are tankers). However, if you are looking for options, I would say scrappers, brutes, and maybe trollers would be a good fit too.
Defensive scrapper- If you want nearly tank tough but more damage, I really love my DM/Invuln/Pyre scrapper. I run +4x8 content with him no problem. He is capped to S/L/N/E , 37% to F/C. 74% resistance to s/l. 26% ranged, Capped hit points and lots of accuracy and recharge. He stays alive when some tankers hit the deck. The standard elec/shield or fire/shield would be fun too. Not as tough as dm/invuln but still tough and a nice damage boost from AAO. IF you want a scrapper that plays pretty easy from level 1 to level 50, Willpower secondary is very simple.
All Human WS- If you like the click nature of a fire/fire or say regen, an all human WS is a blast. However, the lvl 20-30 for an all human WS is really a tough patch that you have to plan for. Some will take nova early and respec out of it. I never took a form and I was fine but i knew what to expect. I have mine built with perma eclipse of 85% resist to all, tons of recharge and a fair ammount of defense. This guy is a damage machine...again not as tough as my dm/invuln scrapper but probably more fun like fire/fire scrapper or tank.
Trollers- I have never had problems soloing my fire/rad or fire/kin trollers on some pretty difficult content. Strategy is key to do this well though.
There are probably tons more you could have fun with. If you ever want to see any of these options live, I am on Freedom and would be happy to show you a couple in action.
Good Luck
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ahem...all im saying is..you must be new!
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Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Ah, another Fire/Fire. I knew there was more than just me and Grey Pilgrim. .
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To funny |
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Ah, another Fire/Fire. I knew there was more than just me and Grey Pilgrim.
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. There are quite a few of us
I was about to say. Ko Oni II, my Fire/Fire/Pyre tank hit lvl 50 over two years ago and is still one of my favorite toons to play. I've even posted what his build is/was a few times in the Tank forums. 
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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My first 50 was a Fire/Fire tank and that was before there ever was an Epic Pool..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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no no no.|
Originally Posted by Flints
...
It seems you like Tankers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't start complaining when you're level 20 defender jumps in the middle of a spawn on *8 solo and gets destroyed. |
My tanker can handle x7 missions and it's a breeze.
All my other characters have trouble at x1 solo with enemies set to -1!
Although it helps being showered with inspirations.
I tried a inv/ss brute, and he is nowhere near as invincible! of course he's not anywhere near the same level, perhaps he'll improve too.
Thing is, when I see other tankers in my group they seem to have very few aoe abilities. why is that? why would you play a tanker that way? which tankers get aoe?
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
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You should look how you're playing other classes, my pre-20 Ice tanker suffered greatly in Praet teams because I took my aggro aura far too early, and not only did I not have the End to support it, but I didn't have the defense to cope with it, before your tanker becomes balanced in the sense that its def/res and end are all working well together, you'll flatline most of the time. |
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
no no no.
My tanker can handle x7 missions and it's a breeze. All my other characters have trouble at x1 solo with enemies set to -1! Although it helps being showered with inspirations. I tried a inv/ss brute, and he is nowhere near as invincible! of course he's not anywhere near the same level, perhaps he'll improve too. Thing is, when I see other tankers in my group they seem to have very few aoe abilities. why is that? why would you play a tanker that way? which tankers get aoe? |
Now the same tanker is 30, I've got all my armour powers and my secondary AoE, I can dish out and ake a lot more damage than I could 10 levels ago.
If I remember correctly, I believe all Tanker secondaries have at least 1 aoe, and some primaries provide pbaoe toggles as well (ice, fire, elec & dark) I had to take the ice APP on my main (Ice/Ice) to have two clickable AoEs while farming.
But it seems you're trying to play other ATs like tanks (Which is what I meant in that quote) A controller/Domi and in some cases a Defender work by getting outside of meele range (either by hold/immob or using Hover) to survive, my Rad/Son defender, while incredible in teams, has only really come to his own solo now that he's 50 and got the Patron pools (Uses web grenade and sirens call (aoe sleep) before picking off targets).
Even though I'm a tanker, and this is the tanker forum, a suggestion would be to play a corruptor (or blaster) for the first 20 levels in a team, the reason I say a corruptor is because you'll quickly see the difference in how "tough" ATs play (Tankers, Scrappers, MMs, Brutes.) and how "squishes" play, while experiencing what a support class brings to a team.
No, I don't play other classes lilke tankers. but they routinely end up one-on-one against minions and flatline because they're resistant to hold powers or maybe I don't have a choice but to fight three at once and their dps is just too much to handle.
It's just crazy that my tanker hits harder, hits more often, and takes less damage, and heals for more than any other character. I know I'm doing something wrong when my other characters can't even approach this.
I have a mastermind for example, you may have heard of her, her name is Party Kake. She has robots and dark miasma (but colored to become vanilla frosting!) and there are a lot of powers that I took because I had no idea what to take. she has leadership, and super speed, but there are powers she's got that I took because I didn't have anything I wanted to choose from, and regularly candles (her robot with rocket launcher and flamethrower) just takes way more damage than expected and not even the amazing heals can stop that. every other bot gets one-shot in tough fights. If she gets targeted at all it's over but I usually avoid that.
For her the game is difficult, but I wouldn't ever run her up against x2 missions because there's no way I could handle that much while solo.
And I avoid doing anything at +1 or higher because there's no way I'd ever be able to beat an elite boss if it was above -1.
And this was my most powerful character before I saw what a tanker could do.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3
My Fire/Fire tanker was my very first character made with farming in mind. She does so well at it, too. I enjoy it for normal, everyday PvE as well... but I rarely do any of that blueside anymore anyhow.
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Hey, at least they remembered me. That's a plus, in my book. Might be biased though. |
Originally Posted by Brakner
To funny
. There are quite a few of us |
To the OP, I really do like Tanks. I have Scrappers, Blasters, Stalkers, a Controller, and a Brute that I all like, but Tanks are certainly my first love. If you like having decent mitigation via Tanks and decent offense, pairing something with Shield is also fun. It's quite different from Fiery Aura, but my Shield/SS is probably my next favorite tank behind Fire/Fire. You have to wait until 38 to get AOE via Footstomp (well, Shield Charge at 32, silly me). Those two combined with Rage will just decimate things in AOE, and your ST will get the rest.
I do like Mace for its combination of AOE and ST as well, if that's something you like. Might work nice with Shield as well.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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I would suggest a look on the Mastermind forums. There is a thread right now about how to solo on a Bots/Dark. And played well a Bots/Dark can handle way more than a tank (IE: Bots/Dark can solo TF's and AV's, Tanks can't).|
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
No, I don't play other classes lilke tankers. but they routinely end up one-on-one against minions and flatline because they're resistant to hold powers or maybe I don't have a choice but to fight three at once and their dps is just too much to handle.
It's just crazy that my tanker hits harder, hits more often, and takes less damage, and heals for more than any other character. I know I'm doing something wrong when my other characters can't even approach this. I have a mastermind for example, you may have heard of her, her name is Party Kake. She has robots and dark miasma (but colored to become vanilla frosting!) and there are a lot of powers that I took because I had no idea what to take. she has leadership, and super speed, but there are powers she's got that I took because I didn't have anything I wanted to choose from, and regularly candles (her robot with rocket launcher and flamethrower) just takes way more damage than expected and not even the amazing heals can stop that. every other bot gets one-shot in tough fights. If she gets targeted at all it's over but I usually avoid that. For her the game is difficult, but I wouldn't ever run her up against x2 missions because there's no way I could handle that much while solo. And I avoid doing anything at +1 or higher because there's no way I'd ever be able to beat an elite boss if it was above -1. And this was my most powerful character before I saw what a tanker could do. |
That isn't to say tanks are bad, but MM's are probably the most survivable solo toons in the game.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Shield Charge at 26 on a Tanker. |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
You have to wait until 38 to get AOE via Footstomp (well, Shield Charge at 32, silly me).
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Very nice if one is level-locking in the early 30s for rolling recipes, because you can still six-slot it (or 5-slot it if you stop exactly at 30). Not that I've looked at doing that or anything.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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That soon? Hmmm, I thought it was longer. Guess I'm thinking of Lightning Rod at 32. I made the mistake of shifting my Shield/SS to Champion to have a 50 for Tanker Tuesdays, but I'm rarely able to make those, and I haven't played him much lately. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Shield Charge at 26 on a Tanker.
Very nice if one is level-locking in the early 30s for rolling recipes, because you can still six-slot it (or 5-slot it if you stop exactly at 30). Not that I've looked at doing that or anything. |
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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My fire/fire has over 1100 hours of played time, and hit 50 prior to epic pools being added to the game, most of those played hours were all prior to issue-7. So yeah, there are some fire/fire around.
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Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Ah, another Fire/Fire. I knew there was more than just me and Grey Pilgrim.
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Nonsense, I'm sure they were just confused about my name. I consider the fact that I leveled my Fire/Fire tank from 28+ in I5 a sign of how much I love the character |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Hey, at least they remembered me. That's a plus, in my book. Might be biased though.
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@OP: Tanks are great. Other ATs can be freakishly awesome too though - sounds like you may have some playstyle/build issues with them. I'd highly recommend the guide stickies in the individual class sections. Some may be out of date, but much remains unchanged and there's a lot of good info there.
To answer the question regarding great archtype mob busters:
1. Tanks are the best - the right tank can agro an entire room and live to talk about it
2. Well built Controllers are great mob busters but need some help from their pets
3. Although it pains me to say it, Scrapers are good with some agro control and beefed up IO defense sets (I'm just not a scraper fan)
4. Avoid Defenders and Blasters at all cost
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dont understand the comment about Blasters and Defenders here ???
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Originally Posted by IronLung1169
To answer the question regarding great archtype mob busters:
1. Tanks are the best - the right tank can agro an entire room and live to talk about it 2. Well built Controllers are great mob busters but need some help from their pets 3. Although it pains me to say it, Scrapers are good with some agro control and beefed up IO defense sets (I'm just not a scraper fan) 4. Avoid Defenders and Blasters at all cost |
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
clearly me neither since i got my empath badge from retarded players on scrappers not blasters or defenders
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Huh? 2. 3 and 4 are utter crap, you're talking through your ***. if you don't have facts to back it up please don't pollute new or returning players with this garbage.
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Originally Posted by IronLung1169
To answer the question regarding great archtype mob busters:
1. Tanks are the best - the right tank can agro an entire room and live to talk about it 2. Well built Controllers are great mob busters but need some help from their pets 3. Although it pains me to say it, Scrapers are good with some agro control and beefed up IO defense sets (I'm just not a scraper fan) 4. Avoid Defenders and Blasters at all cost |
a long time ago, I made a fire/fire tank. She's hot. (duh) but at level 6, I was having so much trouble doing anything that I wondered what I was doing wrong, and I even considered deleting her because she sucked so bad.
Everyone else had raved about how tankers were awesome and could solo anything, but I was having trouble on individual minions, so I asked around for help, got into a group, saw a handful of levels fly by, and before I knew it I was leaping into the next group tearing into my enemies with wild abandon.
My fire/fire tanker is the only character I've ever played that is capable of handling missions set to higher than the minimum difficulty level while solo. reliably.
My dominator has aoe confuse, which sucks when it fails but makes for some fun situations.
my warshade is brand new and might be able to handle missions set to x2 at some point soon but I keep faceplanting as soon as I destealth to use sunless mire, before I can even hit the button for gravity well. even my heal is too weak to keep up with the dps of a limp-wristed pool noodle wielder.
But I run my tanker at x7 while solo and she can just take damage from loads of guys all at once and burn em down and it's just amazing. I mean I've HEARD of class imbalance but I've never seen a class operating "as intended" and doing better than I'd imagine any of my other classes even if they were CHEATING.
So I want to know. Is it possible for any other class to approach the awesomeness of this character or should I just consider another tanker for my next character?
And also, what sets would you recommend for someone who is absolutely hooked on the aoe potential of fire/fire?
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you <3