How can there be a Praetorian Infernal?

For a long time I held to the theory of infinite parallel earths, each expressing a single difference from our own earth, and beyond those infinite earths, an infinite more with 2 differences, and 3, and so on and so forth.

The basic concept was that if there was a possible variable within the existence of the universe (you sneeze now, instead of three seconds ago, or decide to wear a green shirt instead of blue, Nazis won world war 2, etc) that it would have to be expressed in the infinite universe. And it's true! if the universe was, indeed, infinitely replicated in parallel realities, those facts would all be true.

But what about the reality wherein the people of Earth develop interdimensional travel and conquer all parallel earths? It cannot happen, since in one reality Earth is never conquered by interdimensional invaders (since that is another variable that must be expressed) meaning the whole design collapses in on itself in paradox.

Fun stuff, huh?

-Rachel-

Interesting question... if someone tries to conquer infinite universes and there's a universe where that can't happen, does it matter philosophically that they can't (by the cosmic rules) or just that "infinite" means that the conquerors just haven't gotten around to it yet (and will never get around to it)?

Does the "infinite multiverse" collapse down to an incredibly large yet still finite number? Do they remain infinite?

Make.
It.
Stop!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Actually, a funny property of infinity is that even if you subtract infinity from it, you still have infinity.

Oh, of course! I won't doubt that in the slightest.

But if the individual realities are only infinite due to infinite differences between each reality with all potential variables realized, then the unstoppable force and the immovable object meet. You can't have one with the other, but both variables must be expressed in infinite variation, and so infinite variation cannot occur.

To say it differently: Infinite parallel realities could occur with nearly infinite variations, but some variables -cannot- be expressed, since they affect the opposite variable in paradox. So there is a limit to what the variables between realities can be, and that number is also infinite. So there are infinite possibilities and infinite impossibilities.

-Rachel-

Y= 1, when X= 1
Y= 2, when X= 1
X= -1, when X= 1

And that's how dimensions work.

Don't you mean XX + XY = XX/XY?

XX + XY + XXX works, too.

If you look at Upsilon Beta 9-6 you can't see any reason why Upsilon Alpha 9-6, Upsilon Beta 8-6 or Upsilon Beta 9-7 can't exist. It's only once you give it a name and start calling it "Praetoria" that the possibility of it being completely unique even occurs.

On the subject of infinite universes:

If we assume they are infinite, then we don't get to double-back and say they are finite, just very, very many. Even if we assume that not every difference can be expressed, not every difference has to be. Even within a single aspect, such as one person's hair colour, there could be infinite, imperceptible variations, and there are many other aspects to take into account. Again, this brings up the question of cardinalty which I REALLY don't want to tackle here. Suffice it to say that some infinite sets of things "expand" faster than others and you can kind of measure them against each other, where this is relevant.

It is irrelevant here, because the assertion that alternate universes must be unique from each other (hence bringing up differences) is not substantiated by game lore. For all we know, there could be an infinite number of exact copies of our Earth that we just don't know about, and the extra-dimensional incursions we occasionally receive could well be just the tiniest, most insignificant traffic going on to parallel instances of our own universe that we happen to receive by luck of the draw. Therefore, even with no differences whatsoever, I still assert that the possibility of factually infinite universes exist.

Now, this may be a tangible prospect if we looked into the concept of an infinite amount of time, but this comes into complex territory such as the time of creation, and whether that was a finite or infinite amount of time ago, and whether there's the same moment of creation for the multiverse as a whole or it's separate for each universe. The game provides no lore on how the different parallel universes are formed, whether the multiverse spawned with a set number, whether new ones are born via big bangs all the time, or whether existing universes split up every time a "decision" is made. Say for instance you are given the choice to kill a criminal or bring him to trial. No matter what choice you make, an alternate universe is spawned in that very moment where you made the other choice, and it segments from there. Such a theory could actually paint the multiverse as a tree structure, with a traceable origin back to a single point, but that's already far beyond the scope of this thread.

On the subject of plains of existence:

I've always liked the "layer cake" design of dimensional mathematics. You have physical space, then you have mystical space, then you have dimensional space, so to speak, with the alternate planes of existence being integral parts of their own particular universe. If Infernal is indeed from another plane (which I admit I don't know), then the easy explanation of why he's in all dimensions is that there is an "Infernal plane" attached to every dimension, and it makes that aspect far simpler.

On the other hand, I enjoy the prospect of non-segregated universes, where some aspects of them are unique and separate, but others intersect. Just as a practical example, we here on Primal Earth have access to the Infernal Realm and to the Netherworld. However, people from Shadow Earth also have access to the same Netherworld, and can dive into that and come out in our Earth, whereas people on, say, War Earth have access to the Infernal Realm and can use that to travel. Kind of like a single sewer zone linking two otherwise unconnected zones.

Or, in other words, like the offset bricks in a brick wall. Imagine a brick wall and you'll know how a brick sits on top of two bricks below, sharing those two with the two bricks on either side. Where we would picture a universe as a uniform column of bricks with all of its planes of existence stacked on top of each other, I would picture it as a section of a brick wall, where each plane of existence is offset and intersects with a neighbouring section.

This might be pretty interesting to try and model mathematically, actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.