Pvp and Pve players don't get along to well do they, Can't we change that
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-09-22 12:08 in Suggestions and Ideas
This looks like a good thread to break out my /facepalm lemur
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I don't PvP. If I'm in a PvP zone for Shivans or nukes, I expect to be attacked; that's what the zone is there for. If I can't get my stuff done, I'll come back later.
You could argue that the devs should never have put such tasty treats in a PvP zone, but it's a bit late for that.
Is this really a problem?
>_>
<_<
I mean is it?
I routinely venture into the Bay for some Shivan love and I've Never seen another soul... at any time of day... any day of the week...
On Infinity.
The 1st few times I went in I always expected to get ganked right off the bat (As this is how it was in Sirens when it launched, man I loved that increased mission bonus! My main blaster spent most of his twenties in there!)
So, naturally I assumed the risk of being killed. Then I started getting complacent when it never happened.
Then I actually started wanting to see a villain, even going so far as to broadcast that a squishy blaster was all alone in the Bay.
So I ask, is this really a problem? Because it sure doesn't look like anyone still PvP's round here to me.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Quote:
Did. Years ago.|
Originally Posted by Selina_H
You could argue that the devs should never have put such tasty treats in a PvP zone, but it's a bit late for that.
|
To a great extent I believe that it comes down to non-PvPers' perception that PvPers can have something that they cannot. Badges, I couldn't care much less about. Shivans and nukes, however have a very real place in PvE. Why is it that only PvPers can have these goodies? PvPers will say that anyone can have them but what they really just said is that anyone can play the game their way (become a PvPer).
Why ARE these restricted to PvP zones? To "encourage" us to PvP, that's why? PvP is self-renewing "content" for us to waste time on. Like AE...
I wrote off all of those goodies years ago because it was simply not possible for me to get them with anything APPROACHING surety. The only thing sure about them is that they WILL eat up your time, mostly to no benefit thanks to PvP.
Quote:
name one thing that absolutely can not be done without them.| Shivans and nukes, however have a very real place in PvE. |
Quote:
| Why is it that only PvPers can have these goodies? PvPers will say that anyone can have them but what they really just said is that anyone can play the game their way (become a PvPer). |
Quote:
NEVER did I say that there was anything that CAN NOT be done without them. That does NOT mean that they do not have a place in PvE.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
name one thing that absolutely can not be done without them.
absolute falacy. no one is saying that. and PvP'ers are not the only ones that can have those goodies. |
If one can not have them without subjecting themselves to PvP, then only PvPers can have them. That is the PvPers' entire rationale for why it is perfectly acceptable to kill people trying for these things. The fact that they AGREE TO PvP as soon as they enter the zone. What is fallacious about that?
Quote:
No, only people who can't avoid PvP are subjected to it. Except for the badges for PvP kills or Wins, there are no shinys that require you to PvP, and anyone with an ounce or two of common sense can easily avoid PvP at the same time they're getting these things. The only way someone can be forced into it repeatedly is if there are multiple attackers making a concerted coordinated effort to get you.|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
If one can not have them without subjecting themselves to PvP, then only PvPers can have them
|
They're big zones. The number of places you can be without engaging in PvP far outnumber the number of places a PvPer can be looking for you at once.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Quote:
The meteors don't move nor do the firebases. Never seen one camped huh?|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
No, only people who can't avoid PvP are subjected to it. Except for the badges for PvP kills or Wins, there are no shinys that require you to PvP, and anyone with an ounce or two of common sense can easily avoid PvP at the same time they're getting these things. The only way someone can be forced into it repeatedly is if there are multiple attackers making a concerted coordinated effort to get you.
They're big zones. The number of places you can be without engaging in PvP far outnumber the number of places a PvPer can be looking for you at once. |
Neither do the exits from the Web, the Lab Technician Bunkers or the Launch Computers. Escorting Technicians is just waiting for someone to come along and take your code.
Sure, they're big zones. If all I wanted to do was hide. If you want to accomplish something you have to make yourself vulnerable to getting no gain for a lot of time wasted.
BTW, all you people who were just told that you don't have an ounce of common sense: How does that make you feel? Like you were AS'd? Chain-held? Ganked?
Quote:
the PvP'ers are not there to stop you from getting the rewards. they are they to, dare i say it, PvP. if the devs took those rewards and moved them to PvE they wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are. that is part of the risk vs reward aspect of the game. if you do not like the risk, then do without the reward. |
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
NEVER did I say that there was anything that CAN NOT be done without them. That does NOT mean that they do not have a place in PvE.
If one can not have them without subjecting themselves to PvP, then only PvPers can have them. That is the PvPers' entire rationale for why it is perfectly acceptable to kill people trying for these things. The fact that they AGREE TO PvP as soon as they enter the zone. What is fallacious about that? |
Quote:
| Sure, they're big zones. If all I wanted to do was hide. If you want to accomplish something you have to make yourself vulnerable to getting no gain for a lot of time wasted. |
Quote:
Agreed!|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
/unsigned!
Just as I would unsign turning the pve world into open pvp, I would unsign turning turning pvp zones into badge zones. |
Haven't we had this discussion before?
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Quote:
In a MMO PVP zone? D*****baggery certainly seems to outnumber the mythical honest desire to compete.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Because there's no such thing as an honest desire to compete, right?
... |
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
Quote:
I'm just a lemur, but last I checked there was more than one Firebase/Exit/Meteor to go to.|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
The meteors don't move nor do the firebases. Never seen one camped huh?
Neither do the exits from the Web, the Lab Technician Bunkers or the Launch Computers. Escorting Technicians is just waiting for someone to come along and take your code. Sure, they're big zones. If all I wanted to do was hide. If you want to accomplish something you have to make yourself vulnerable to getting no gain for a lot of time wasted. BTW, all you people who were just told that you don't have an ounce of common sense: How does that make you feel? Like you were AS'd? Chain-held? Ganked? |
Sure there are chokepoints that's part of the design. Doesn't mean you have to repeatedly bang your head against the same ones. If you only need 1 more Meteor or whatever, all it takes is waiting a few minutes. There's such a thing as being patient.
And if you're going to try and take umbrage about my common sense remark, I'd say you're really trying too hard to be insulted.
I said what I did because that really is a simple matter of a little thought and common sense. You can't treat every PvE encounter in this game as run in and smash, and there's no reason you should expect avoiding PvP to be mindless either.
Fun thing is, avoiding PvP is easy enough that you can do it, get what you want, AND frustrate any PvPers who happen to be looking for you all at the same time.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Quote:
I've played around in the zones on all the servers since COV came out. In all that time, I've seen them camped *maybe* once. |
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
The meteors don't move nor do the firebases. Never seen one camped huh?
|
Firebase camped? Go to another one.
Meteor? Go to another. Use the zone's temp stealth. "Mistell" in broadcast about "Meteor X next" and see if they take the bait.
Quote:
| Neither do the exits from the Web, the Lab Technician Bunkers or the Launch Computers. Escorting Technicians is just waiting for someone to come along and take your code. |
Quote:
|
Sure, they're big zones. If all I wanted to do was hide. If you want to accomplish something you have to make yourself vulnerable to getting no gain for a lot of time wasted. |
There's a reason that, the times PVPers have wanted to 'duel" in the zones, they've picked a spot to meet. Namely that it's damn hard to find one other person if you're just randomly combing the zone - even hitting the "event points." (Easier in Siren's, of course, since you're given a rough targeting marker and there's only one "event" at a time.)
/unsigned.
I'm about as anti-PvP as one can be, but even I don't feel a need for this.
First off, badges, shivans, nukes, and heavies are not needed. At all. Period. You can play the entire game without ever going into a PvP zone if you don't want to.
Secondly, I do go into the PvP zones occasionally to pick up shivans and nukes, and you know what? I have never, not once, been attacked by a PvPer while doing so.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Reiraku
I'd hate to see your views on sports. The horror!
|
Sports? Hell, competetive chess players are some of the worst **** talkers I've yet encountered. Some of them make Barrier look like a boyscout.
We obviously play on different servers.
Quote:
Exactly. You want the shiny? You have to agree to be PvP'd for it.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Yes, it's a PVP zone. You're warned when you come in you may be engaged by another player. If you don't want to "make yourself vulnerable," don't enter the zone.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by firespray
First off, badges, shivans, nukes, and heavies are not needed. At all. Period. You can play the entire game without ever going into a PvP zone if you don't want to.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
the PvP'ers are not there to stop you from getting the rewards. they are they to, dare i say it, PvP. if the devs took those rewards and moved them to PvE they wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are. that is part of the risk vs reward aspect of the game. if you do not like the risk, then do without the reward.
|
People who think there is no presence in PvP zones who's expressed purpose is to deny access to shivans and nukes are lucky to not play on a server with a VG who's very motto is denial of such benefits to heroes.
Quote:
Sound like your issue would be with people accurately RPing comic book villains and not run of the mill PvPers.
|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
Exactly. You want the shiny? You have to agree to be PvP'd for it.
Said this. Read. As I said, I do. I gave up on them years ago. People who think there is no presence in PvP zones who's expressed purpose is to deny access to shivans and nukes are lucky to not play on a server with a VG who's very motto is denial of such benefits to heroes. |
Quote:
Never mind that run-of-the-mill PvPers' actions very often mirror such villainy, intentionally or not. |
Originally Posted by LISAR
Sound like your issue would be with people accurately RPing comic book villains and not run of the mill PvPers.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Short answer: No, not really.
Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooo, not really.
Quote:
For the record most sports have rules that must be followed. The same can not be said about PvP in a MMORPG. I'm just sayin'....|
Originally Posted by Reiraku
I'd hate to see your views on sports. The horror!
|
>
"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
Quote:
So those people who got in trouble for exploiting holes int he geometry weren't in trouble for rule violations. Got it.
|
Originally Posted by McBoo
For the record most sports have rules that must be followed. The same can not be said about PvP in a MMORPG. I'm just sayin'....
> |
lol this thread
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Quote:
Your the one to blame for your choice in servers. You could always choose to play on a different server with a nonexistent PvP population, or pay for some server transfers to get what you want.
|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
We obviously play on different servers.
|
If all you wanted was to push yourself, there are plenty of non-competitive activities in which you could engage. Being "competitive by nature" inherently means that you don't just want to push yourself, but that you also want to... push others, as it were. And typically those with a competitive nature prefer to win, which means beating others whenever possible. Now, I'm not saying you are a bully, but that competitive, driven mentality is just around the corner from being one; and the environment which encourages such a mentality has churned out or attracted enough of them that it has become a stereotype.
If I win, I congratulate my opponent on a well done fight, because they've earned my respect. If I lose, I congratulate them just the same. It's only a game, and there is no sense at all holding a grudge over a game.
Being competitive does not automatically equal feeling a need to win at any cost.
I enjoy winning like everyone else does, but if I lose fairly, I don't get angry. And I NEVER cheat. I don't have much respect for people who think winning is so important that they will break the rules of whatever contest or game they are competing in. Play fair, and you will have my respect regardless of the outcome, cheat and you will lose my respect just as quickly.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.