Emperor Cole at the end of the Power Loyalist Arc...
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
Back to the Mafia example, what the Crusaders are doing here is not saying to Joe the Baker "Stop paying the Mafia's protection money or I'll kill you" so much as it's coming into the Bakery in the middle of the day with an AK-47, shooting Joe and all his customers, and screaming "HEY, GIOVANNI!* WEREN'T YOU SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTING THIS?"
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bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
At the end of the arc, Emperor Cole pulls open the curtain to reveal everyone you killed (or saw killed) along the way. He admits that the whole thing was staged, ala "The Truman Show", including a sizable budget on blank ammunition and blood-colored dye packs.
"It made ratings history, <charactername>, but you are one sick, evil sonuvagun. You disgust me." |
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
You get the option to ignore orders on the Loyalist side, too. Also, judging from some of the missions, some amount of free thought is allowed (Otherwise there wouldn't be enough people willing to hold public protests or even riots)
You can agree or disagree with Cole, to his face at at least one point, too.
You get the option to ignore orders on the Loyalist side, too. Also, judging from some of the missions, some amount of free thought is allowed (Otherwise there wouldn't be enough people willing to hold public protests or even riots)
You can agree or disagree with Cole, to his face at at least one point, too. |
I'm talking about characters the player encounters while doing missions in Praetoria.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
The game is set up for the the players to help the Resistance bring down the Praetorian reich, regardless of them picking blue side or red side.
And the upcoming content isn't looking too promising for the stiff-armers either
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I'm talking less about the player's character, since they have script immunity - they need to be able to ignore orders for game play purposes, and they can't really have Cole's regime coming to arrest them for being a traitor.
I'm talking about characters the player encounters while doing missions in Praetoria. |
And, GG, shhh. The adults are debating.
James... You're applying external opinion to the game's situation...
The game is a dictatorship with hints at Tyranny. There are some Orwellian Themes, but no in-game proof that most of what you're saying is true.
The "Thought Crime" idea. If Thought Crime was enough to warrant execution there wouldn't -be- a resistance. They'd all be executed before they decided to reach out to the other malcontents. Or are we to believe that the psychics in the Resistance are able to shield the minds of people they don't know are thinking about becoming resistance members -before- the Seers (Who are actively scanning for seditious thought, according to the thought-crime theory) realize they're there?
If seditious thought were enough of a crime to warrant being "Disappeared" then the Resistance would have been crushed a decade ago. They wouldn't have been able to recruit new members, since the government would be executing anyone with the spark of sedition, and the members they HAVE would be killed in duty (mostly by being terrorists)
It -cannot- work like that, since there -is- a resistance. Ergo thought crime is not how it works, but an assumption the players like to think of because they're reading into it.
Further evidence that they're not hunting seditious -thought- is the statements of the Seers "I'm sensing hostility toward my person, Citizen. And will react accordingly" or when you're told the Seers have detected panic and fear and you're sent in to save the people who are panicked and terrified. Hostility, Panic, and Fear are all -emotional- responses, not logical ones.
By all means, refute me! But use evidence from the game and not assumption.
As for my characterization of Dictatorships. I have lived in one before. I was in Thailand for a month, during which I did some of the "Touristy" things, but I spent most of my time talking with people who had been living in or visiting Thailand for years.
In a month of talking to doctors, hotel owners, shop keepers, street vendors, and temple caretakers I came to understand they were not having their rights trampled. Mind you this was near Christmas of 2006, while the entire nation was under Martial Law. The people of Thailand adored their Monarch. not out of Fear, but of genuine respect and love. Why?
Because as a young man he went around the nation with a camera hanging around his neck, talking to his people, learning what they need and want, helping to bring modern farming techniques to rural communities, or making grand donations to charities. When you see people on Thai TV networks commemorating him or honoring him it's -genuine- not some fake lip-service.
So I've seen how a Dictatorship can be a good thing for a nation. And it's evident that Cole -does- have elected representatives chosen by the people. Otherwise Luke Larson wouldn't be a politician looking to curry favor. The Magisters wouldn't have different leanings. And a Constitutional Monarch can intervene, as well, within certain limits. So Cole over-riding some decisions the Magisters bring before him isn't tyrannical.
And a lack of Freedom of Speech? Protestors in Nova Praetoria. Magisters with political leanings toward the Resistance.
-Rachel-
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The "Thought Crime" idea. If Thought Crime was enough to warrant execution there wouldn't -be- a resistance. They'd all be executed before they decided to reach out to the other malcontents. |
Further evidence that they're not hunting seditious -thought- is the statements of the Seers "I'm sensing hostility toward my person, Citizen. And will react accordingly" or when you're told the Seers have detected panic and fear and you're sent in to save the people who are panicked and terrified. Hostility, Panic, and Fear are all -emotional- responses, not logical ones. |
When you see people on Thai TV networks commemorating him or honoring him it's -genuine- not some fake lip-service. |
So I've seen how a Dictatorship can be a good thing for a nation. |
And it's evident that Cole -does- have elected representatives chosen by the people. Otherwise Luke Larson wouldn't be a politician looking to curry favor. The Magisters wouldn't have different leanings. And a Constitutional Monarch can intervene, as well, within certain limits. So Cole over-riding some decisions the Magisters bring before him isn't tyrannical. |
And the Resistance supporters like Luke Larson in the Magisterium have to keep their sympathies secret - because, like everything the dictatorship does in public, free spech is an illusion
And a lack of Freedom of Speech? Protestors in Nova Praetoria. Magisters with political leanings toward the Resistance. |
Jessica Flores' arc shows just how much free speech in the Praetorian reich
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I am a Massive Tool with nothing constructive to add to this conversation. I will only spout the same lines of Bullspit that I've been spouting since the first days of beta, because I have no understanding of any viewpoint other than the most narrow possible explanation of reality. I will swallow the Resistance Lies without question and ignore any evidence to the contrary, like a good little Sturmengruppen
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-Rachel-
Everything the Resistance says about the dictatorship is backed up with proof - which is why the game puts all the players on their side at level 20
Although as a stormtrooper, your attitude is understandable - just like in RL, supporters of a dictatorship will frequently deny that the crimes against humanity the dictatorship carried out ever actually happened.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
GG, a lot of your assertions aren't supported by anything i've read. You do realize that a lot of what you're railing against is stuff you've embellished in your own head, right?
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No process short of general revolt or regicide to replace a rogue leader with someone more stable or competent. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Golden Cole, Golden Cole... please, hush, so the grownups can debate properly. If you want to go on and on babbling incoherently, go talk to a wall. It has about as many relevant things to say as you do.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Ah, the Ceasar thing makes the most sense, since it's 'Praetoria' after all.
And, Golden Cole, the only one desperate here is you, and you've always been desperate.
Desperate people ignore counter-arguments. Desperate people shout 'AMERICA!' again and again. Desperate people have to FORCE everyone to think and believe the same way as them, such as you with your 'Democracy is always right, dur-hur!'
Et cetera, et cetera.
Everything the Resistance says about the dictatorship is backed up with proof - which is why the game puts all the players on their side at level 20
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Although as a stormtrooper, your attitude is understandable - just like in RL, supporters of a dictatorship will frequently deny that the crimes against humanity the dictatorship carried out ever actually happened.
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(Although, I'll still side with the Resistance. I'm just honest about the reasons: Handing Praetoria over to Lord Recluse.)
An MMO closure is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for players to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the developers than on the publisher. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.
Incoherent fascist rambling isn't really a counter-argument - except to the stormtroopers, of course
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
See what I mean? Desperate.
Poor girl.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
**SPOILER ALERT!!**
At the end of the arc, Emperor Cole pulls open the curtain to reveal everyone you killed (or saw killed) along the way. He admits that the whole thing was staged, ala "The Truman Show", including a sizable budget on blank ammunition and blood-colored dye packs.
"It made ratings history, <charactername>, but you are one sick, evil sonuvagun. You disgust me."