Petlesss Mastermind Ranking/Rating MM Attack Powers

So I am dead set on creating a Petless Mastermind. The Secondary is to be determined. I am attempting to determine what Non-Pet Mastermind Attack power is the best and worst when combining the factors of animation time and damage. They all feel and seem very similar to me. (Then again I am playing at a low level when everything seems good).

The question and it is a silly one: How would you rate the Petless Mastermind Primary attack powers based off DPS and Animation?

1. Demons (Whip)
2. Necromancers (Dark Blast)
3. Thugs (Pistols)
4. Robots (Pulse Rifle)
5. Ninja (Archery)
6. Mercenaries (Assault Rifle)

That is my last, thoughts? Input?

Thanks!

*This thread marked for failure.*

I'd say that Demon Summoning has the best attacks with the -res. Not entirely sure about the rest.

O.o Um....

Lowest hit points of any AT and no Bodyguard mode... I fail to see how you would complete a mish without a team.

Why not just make a blaster/Corr/Def?

As far as attacks for MMs go.... IF I took an attack it would just be for the secondary effects. I would go with DS, as each attack does -res and has a great range.

Bring lots of Greens and wakies is another piece of advice

Beside the negatives already listed, most secondaries for MMs have been lessened in some way, especially obvious in /dark.

And a more constructive reply:

If you're playing a higher level MM, when you lose your pets and you aren't on a team that is providing a lot of defense, your health starts to drop REALLY fast. (And when you're hit through the DEF, that happens still) If you're a useful support role, which is the point of MM secondaries, that means you're also putting your own team at risk.

If you're soloing... A solo MM with no pets has no chance fighting anything worth fighting. No chance. Your damage will be PATHETIC. You'll run out of end well before you kill a Boss, for sure. Most MMs can handle EBs just fine, a few can take AVs. You will struggle with Lieutenants.

If you want support secondaries with actual, powerful attacks in a primary while having limited damage mitigation (but more health), make a Corruptor. The MM attacks aren't even 1/4 as powerful as your pets will be. They're also a waste of end most of the time as you should be supporting.

If you have to go through with this, if you need to make a character that makes you feel "unique and special" and is less useful to a team, and yourself, take the attacks that focus on knockdown/knockback. Don't look at the heal in Necro as viable, it won't save you. Keeping an enemy off their feet, might. Also take Air Superiority. Take all/most of the Fighting Pool for more attacks and defense. Take combat jumping or hover for more defense and S/L res. Take Storm or Traps for secondary debuffs, damage and mitigation. If you don't want to summon THOSE pets, either... Well, wow.

This idea is terrible. Enjoy the hospital.

When last I made the comparison, Thugs lead the pack easily, because of the fast animation times of the Pistols attacks, and Empty Clips' fairly good damage rating. The Mercs' machine gun and Robots energy cannon were essentially identical. Bots got the benefit for being mostly Energy damage, but in terms of bare damage the two were both the same, and both abysmally low.

However, since then Assault Rifle got a change in its animation times, and I believe some of those carried over to the Mercs' version. If so, then the performance may have improved.

The Ninja's bow was not quite as good as Thugs, but better than either Mercs or Robots. Necromancy I was not able to analyze to a great deal of depth, as I had to start a new character, but on the surface I would say it can't be as good as either Ninjas or Thugs because it has no good AoE attack. Life Drain will certainly help with your survivability, but it's probably going to end up making you do less damage, overall, even if the other two attacks are better than their counterparts.

Interestingly, this pattern seemed to apply to the pets as well. Masterminds that did less personal damage did less damage overall. Masterminds that did more damage did more damage overall.

Although Demon Summoning was not around for me to make an analysis of, I would say the -Res will make a big difference. Enough to put it in first place, even with the attacks limited to melee range.

Taking some of these comparisons with a grain of salt, I would say my ranking would be:

1) Demon Summoing
2) Thugs
3) Ninjas
4) Necro
5) Mercs
6) Bots

In all honestly, to try and use Bots as a petless Mastermind seems to be an exercise in futility. Demon Summoning and Thugs, though, are IMHO good choices. As a player who's had experience with pseudo-petless builds, though, I would recommend dropping the petless concept once you get to about 26. I know of at least one poster who described getting all the way to 50, so it's possible, but I cannot in good conscience recommend it. You'll be better off going with a partial petless concept.

Wow. Such harsh replies. I think most of you forget that this is a game.

I am a role-player. The character concept that I came up with is roughly based off the cowardly sniveling villain who serves as a 'yes' man for a antagonist of repute. Ala Toad to his Magneto, or Wildside to his Stryfe.

All I asked was an honest comparison between the Mastermind attack powers. That was all. And I get internet abrasiveness. O_O

By the way Jade Dragon and Kiwi, thank you for the constructive response.

Ok, I gotta know. Cause... I gotta know.

What the %#^ is wrong with someone wanting to make a petless mastermind?

They pay the same $15 a month you do, right?

They play the game on their time, not yours, right?

They can build a horrible blaster JUST as easily and no one says "OMG! YOURE AN IDIOT!!"

What exactly is the problem here?

The fact that you 'might' group with this guy? Cause yeah... having the right powers in your build immediately makes you better? Try grouping with a FF/NRG fender who doesn't bubble and has their attacks slotted to kingdom come with KB. Or that /storm that thinks blowing things into the next zone is just good fun. Power selection =/= better player. Heck, how about that guy you group with. You know the guy. You load into the mission and he goes afk. When its over, he gets kicked from the mission, then amazingly comes back in time to make it into the next mission before going afk. THAT guy is super awesome!

At least when someone makes a petless MM, they learn how to rely on the tools they have. they have to learn to overcome inherent weakness in their character and if they can make it to 50 without getting carried, they'll be the better player for it.

I really do fail to see why this is the one issue that cause the absolute most negativity in these forums.

If someone wants to do it, its their nickle, not yours. So lay off already.

Besides, your very first character was 100% win from day 1, right? You never took powers you shouldn't have? Never skipped powers you should have taken? Never slotted things so stupid wrong that you're ashamed to even remember it? Yeah.. that's what I thought.

So cut these people a break. Get off their backs and stop telling them to go roll a corr / fender. They WANT to play this. Let them!

Also, to those who want to make petless MMs. Why do you keep coming here for abuse? What's wrong with you?!

Gah.


Now, on to the OP's question: I'd also say that Demons is your best bet. If you build it similar to a blapper with s/l def, you could potentially have enough output from your primary (and possibly from pool attacks) to dish out some (minor) pain.

Enjoy!

I've always enjoyed the weakness in character.

For some reason when Diablo II came out, I had to make at least one Melee Mancer or One Melee sorcerer.

X_X

Masochism.

Nice post Misaligned. You hit it right on the head.

I have 5 masterminds. 1 is semi petless. I have a 50 Robot Traps tankermind spec which is defense capped. I have done test runs with him and soloed +1 +8 petless to see if it works.

I went whip / traps. I would suggest traps because of simply the issues you read from people posting here.. They get all bent out of shape for some phantom reason. You will be soloing a lot. Since you will be soloing you need a solo build. No other set is going to offer you all the stuff traps does. Basically you can use EVERY power from Traps. You cannot do that with other sets.

The issues I found out as was brought up by some other helpful players which I will pass along.

1. ENDURANCE
2. ENDURANCE
3. ENDURANCE

I picked up some cheaper IO sets to help with the dps and endurance during the lower levels pre 20s.

This definitely not a toon you want to do if your short on cash. I bough SOs asap. Which made it tons easier.

You need to have your build reflect you picking up Stamina as soon as it is available. That will make leveling much easier.

Beyond that Pick up a Defense as soon as you can along with your 3 whip attacks. Basically this way you can have a higher defense then average for your level and eating one purple will almost cap you out. This will allow you to make blues and purples inspirations as needed. Plus you can then slow down your attacks to conserve some endurance when needed.

Really the issue is dragging it out to level 35 to get trip mine. Once you have trip mine and your defenses close to cap your pretty golden. Now you can kick up the mob count for higher exp runs.

My build has the last pet for thematic reasons. If its not for RP reasons then I would suggest level normally with pets to speed it up and at level 35 use your 2nd build for the petless build and run it from that point.

What I do when I am online with my petless ( semi ) Mastermind. I never put myself LFT. In the comments section I make it very clear in caps I am petless MM except for the last pet. You make the decision to invite me and that I will quit the team if someone has any issues with me being petless.
Its long, but it makes it very clear to everyone.

I'm only at 28 or 30 atm with mine. I will not lie, it is a slow run atm. But I find it fun to try it and it gives me something to do when I am tired of running my defense cap toons.

My build also has detonator in it because I really want to see the big demon blow up.

Demons is the best for petless MMs. Fire is less resisted then s/l, the attacks are insanely quick, wich means very good DPS. They all come with -res and two of them have a chance for KD for added mitigation.

Next best was necro. They do good damage, less resisted then s/l and you have a self heal.

Then i'd put thugs or merc. They seems to be decent, just not as great as the other two.

Bots is the coolest looking...but have really long animation and redraw.

Archery recharge quickly but have insanely low damage. And you can't use special sets.



Like the other usefull poster have said, make sure you slot for endurance and get stamina at 20! And the miracle/numina procs is possible. That should cover the endurance problems.

Another nice trick, use exotic's sets proc when you can. KB, to-hit debuff, -def all have damage procs. Something ranged ST attacks don't get. (aside from purples and PvP IOs...) And they are usually cheap. =)

Goodluck and have fun with your petless MM. I know i loved mine a lot more then my other MMs.