Monstrofo

Beware of Dark Miasma on MMs if you're used to it on other ATs. It feels really weak at first. Twilight Grasp is the most noticeable difference. From 25 to 15 ft is a huge shrink in radius. However once you get used to the nerfing it's still incredibly powerful on MMs.

On Thermal in a large team I don't shield my pets unless I find they're getting hit too often, so on low DEF teams I might. Shielding 17 times every four minutes is enough for me. I also rarely pick them as the target of forge... However often being the main heals to a team if I find that forging a blaster or scrapper is suddenly making it so that my end is being drained constantly healing them I'll use it on pets instead.

I dislike FF, I find it boring, but there is no reason not to shield pets on that. Thermal is a busy secondary, especially when you have enough recharge post 38 to use debuffs frequently. FF is not busy. Bubbling is your main job. People love you for it, so that's really all you have to do...

I've got to agree... I feel like they did it right on Demons. Thugs are quite good, but they struggle with survivability at times. Demons feel powerful and durable.

Right now every pet runs to melee range at times. At least Demons have good melee attacks to back that up... Although some might say that is what caused the problem, they screwed up all minion AI to make them work the way they do.

I'll list my feelings on each Primary...

Mercanaries is the most hated, so it's a good start. Small cones on most attacks (making them terrible at AoE) and long recharge times (Making them barely ever use the best attacks) currently ruin mercenaries, which is a shame because they're generic enough to work with almost anything someone wants to do, and they would have a nice mix of decent damage and control, otherwise. Who knows when they'll be fixed. I do feel like I see more of these newly made than ninjas, though, which is interesting.

Ninjas are frantic, especially tier 1. They fling/shoot their weapon, zoom in with run speed that is overkill, and start going at it. The Genin knockback their enemies, give chase... and throw them into other mobs. They've got great single target damage, arguably the best, but they are just... too aggressive. And they don't have the survivability for that. You have to micromanage the hell out of them, more-so than others. If you're good at it, or get good at it, they'll reward you. But they'll drive you crazy too. The oni is mostly fine.

Necromancy has zombies which just don't want to stay alive, in my opinion only the arsonist is more ready to die, and at least he earns that with great damage. I really feel like they make it so zombies die easily so you can Soul Extract them. The set leans heavily on Grave Knights for damage. They do a good job of it. The Lich is an oddity as his role is almost all debuff and control. They all have self-heal attacks at 32, and if you combine that with slotting for their to-hit debuffs and give them decent defense, it's actually fairly noticeable and their survivability goes up.

You've played Thugs. Damage, AoE damage, knockdown, and a suicidal tier 1 pet. They need the enforcers and you to give them defense, which is fine because the enforcers are great.

A bonus of Demons, Thugs and Necromancy is that their "panic button" power allows for Recharge Intensive Pets IOs, which lets you add in the unique IO pet auras for that. Plenty of people stick with these three because of that.

However Bots is still one of those most popular... And that's because they give you and themselves defense, and they heal themselves. Post-32 as you've said their AoE damage also goes up (As it does for most Primaries to be fair... but bots are ho-hum in damage before this so it's singled out here the most). Bots make it easiest to softcap defense as a primary, and they themselves are nice and tough. They also have a number of debuffs that are useful to you, and a team. Knockback is their biggest flaw (some people like it... these tend to be soloers. Bots lend themselves well to soloing)

Demons don't have the defense of Bots (or any defense). I'm sure that's very intentional, because "Defense is King" and that's probably the only thing stopping everyone from playing Demons. It's a harder road to softcap them, but they're very durable, still. Tier 1 lasts pretty well, but they still die off to a big AoE alpha until you have the defense to let them avoid that. All Demons have strong resistances to the most common damages, and the Ember Demon helps that out. The Ember Demon is a better healer than the Protector bots, and I'm fairly sure does more damage (especially once he gets fire ball, which actually, surprisingly, has the normal recharge time of 16 seconds). The Hellfire Gargoyle has knockdown attacks and a tiny AoE aura. All tier 1 and tier 2 pets have a cone breath attack of their element. Both ice (Demonling and Prince) do -Speed -Recharge. Both Hellfire (Fire/Toxic) do -RES. Both Fire (Demonling and Ember) are just fire, like fire is in any other set.... Don't think that ever has a debuff on it. The Demon Prince really shines in the set. He has controls, a hold strong enough to warrant slotting for it, and so much -rech that it's actually noticable, which is rare. He's basically a better Jack Frost. If you're on a team providing a lot of DEF I feel like Demons then bring the most to it, now.


You want to avoid Force Field and Thermal Radiation, obviously, if you don't want to be shielding/bubbling. You get used to it but it still feels like work. Pain is thermal-light, no shields in it, but you get less RES as a result.

Dark Miasma and Traps are almost definitely the most popular. They both do a bit of everything. These two have plenty of guides written for them.

Poison and Trick Arrow are the least popular. Neither is bad but other sets do what they do without their limitations. Poison is very single target. Trick Arrow has enough redraw to bother people in other ATs, but that isn't usually so much an issue as a MM because you aren't using attacks in a primary. Longish recharge times and no heal and entirely relying on controls/debuffs for mitigation are more the issue.

Storm Summoning is fairly hard to play but worth it once you learn its nuances. If you never do... Teams will absolutely hate you as many abilities can scatter mobs all over if used poorly.

Fly in my opinion is the worst travel power for pets... Because it's slow and a straight line, they follow behind you on the ground, getting attacked by everything.

The other travel powers are fast enough that they tend to just despawn/respawn at your new location; they can't keep up.

Bots/Traps is a good way to go since you want to tankermind, though. Between FFG and Protector Bot bubbles you really get a good start on softcapping defense.

You can kill the lich yourself with traps... But otherwise yeah.

It does make sense, otherwise they might as well just make it a summon (would be nice)... I almost wonder if that's why zombies are so squishy.

It's not as useful if you can't slot it, but Howlight Twilight definitely shouldn't just be used as a rez. Yeah, it's useful as that, but I'd rather save the living than bring back the dead with it. With a big stun and recharge reduction it really is helpful... Not to mention it's a huge -regen, gives you a break on spamming Twilight Grasp for that.

You're /Dark without Hasten? I don't think I've ever seen that... Worth it just for Dark Servant. Also you don't seem to have Howling Twilight? Great panic button, have you tried it and disliked it?

Annnnyway... Plenty of MMs have Soul Extraction, Gang War and Hell on Earth just for the fact that they allow Recharge Intensive Pet IOs. It's definitely worth it to the extent that these primaries are partially picked just for that.

The power description doesn't have a duration time on it, it might be different for each pet, but it's always back up by the time my pet is gone... Unless it dies, but it's pretty durable. It follows all MM commands but doesn't work for bodyguard (that'd be amazing if it did)

All pets die at some point; and they'd better die before the MM. It's most likely you'd always have the zombie version up (which is better than a zombie, thus worth taking still), but when the Lich does die... it's a great power to have.

It doesn't have to be taken, but I'd definitely recommend it over Life Drain (for /dark especially)

...Huh. Soul Extraction adds a solid pet (especially if the Lich dies). Why don't you recommend that?

Twilight Grasp is an amazing heal and should be slotted for recharge and accuracy (and only heal if you have those two high enough)... By level 22 Twilight Grasp will be up in under 4 seconds all the time. Some secondaries should consider taking Life Drain; Dark Miasma is definitely not one of those.

Also zombies suck. They die faster than most other pets. I'd recommend maneuvers over tactics to help keep them alive, combining it with shadow fall for the extra DEF they need, on top of (eventually) MM pet auras.

I want undead to be awesome but zombies suck bad enough to ruin the set for me. I like Grave Knights well enough (I feel like they should almost be the tier 1 pet though)... Lich is nice control but doesn't make up for it, especially now that the Demon Prince has controls in a set that does more damage and has more survivability.

But anyway... Since you've already reached 22, you should definitely go for at least 26, and I highly recommend 32. You can't really get a good feel for an MM primary until you have both pet upgrades.

It's an interesting idea, but the first three attacks in a Corruptor set definitely don't correspond to the three MM attacks. The third Corr attack is either a Cone, (PB)AoE, or does extreme damage. Combining any of those with scourge, or even alone (because of higher Corr damage), easily outdamages MM attacks.

Also calling the third attack for a Corruptor one of the WEAKEST attacks is... Weird. Have you played Fire Blast, the most popular? The third attack is Fire Ball, a very solid AoE...

Why not at least do Dark/Dark versus Necro/Dark and have the Corr take the three exact, matching attacks (although Life Drain comes a lot later for a Corruptor so that complicates things)

As posted above, better secondary numbers alone are going to skew this so far in favor of the Corruptor to answer the question, but the inclusion of Scourge is something I think you're underplaying. To me this still says the only reason to play a Petless Mastermind is masochism.

It's a pretty mild color aura added... It can be hard to miss, I guess. The second one is very obvious: the skulls glow, and it actually makes them look a hell of a lot better. They heads look alive, animated, instead of just bodies wearing skull masks.

Hmm you haven't played Demons, have you? Tier 2 is definitely not just support.

The Ember Demon is great support, but has Fire Blast, Fire Breath and Fire Ball, also. He's basically a limited Fire/Thermal corruptor without scourge. Single Target Heal, AoE Heal, Resists, no debuffs, a few fire blast attacks.

The other tier 2 demon, the Hellfire Gargoyle, does a lot of damage. He has an AoE fire aura, he has fire/toxic ranged nukes/cones, he has multiple knockdown melee attacks. He's basically a blapper with an aoe toggle.

The Demon Prince is very much an ice/ice dominator. He does very solid damage and has a couple of controls (Hold, PBAoE slow toggle, PBAoE sleep all his attacks are -slow, -rech). He's definitely not like the lich or oni where you aren't feeling much of his damage.

All of the tier 1 pets are pretty standard, except for their unusual damage types, and the toxic one has -res and the cold one has -slow, -rech on its attacks. They do a lot of damage, too. They're fairly squishy for a while(What tier 1 pet isn't until they have enough DEF), but not thugs level, and both the ice and toxic one have a habit of drawing aggro, but not like an arsonist.

If "it's just a game" and "I want to roleplay, I don't care what you think" are the issues, then don't ask people? Obviously you do care which attacks are the most useful. You're picking MASTERMIND to become a LACKEY. Lackeys don't have minions, that is true... But they also don't have the option to have minions and choose to forgo them, either. By picking Mastermind that option is always there. You just didn't take it. What you are, instead of a lackey, is an ineffectual leader. Unless you plan to eventually have this character "RISE UP" or what have you, and take leadership.

Lackeys don't have to be weak. Even someone that is a coward, or finds cowardice appealing for their safety, attacks when backed into a corner. Cowardice is character weakness, not necessarily physical weakness, especially for a Chosen One (RI) or member of Powers Division (GR), which is what you're admitting to being by selecting MM, unless you're roleplaying AGAINST the game, which makes no sense.

I don't know who Wildside is, but I know Toad actually puts up a fight. Going ahead and not picking Corruptor instead is only limiting you. It's limiting your ability to make your character ever grow. All you're playing then is a sad, one dimensional sniveler for the career of your character. If limitations from every direction really sound like fun to you, and I understand some people are into masochism, enjoy. But you are less useful to everyone.

The rest of you probably suck at something called real life.

You're right. I don't hamper myself with needless constraints because I want to feel unique, special, challenged. Perhaps I will take your example, and try to use a computer without power. I'll talk to my family through smoke signals. I'll crawl to work. Whatever it takes to make things harder and less effective, that must be an improvement. Then I'll go into a public place to ask advice on how to be less effective, and when people tell me that's stupid, I'll insult them, too. This is fun.

Are you saying you soloed anything, much less +8, from 1-50 with traps secondary, only? What, you used caltrops damage to kill enemies until acid mortar, then those two until seeker drones? I doubt it. Traps is a great secondary, especially for soloing. I recommended it or storm to actually manage to survive this ridiculous idea. An idea which another has pointed out MAKES NO SENSE WITHIN THE SO CALLED ROLEPLAYING CONCEPT

I am most certainly not talking about level 50 and that's obvious. I'm talking about the way up there. Instead of going corruptor with traps, you're suggesting that because one can do it at 50, one might as well take the shining uniqueness of a class, chuck it out the window, and either a drag on a team or take forever to get there. If one solos the whole way... fine.

Especially for traps and storm, as I've said, if you won't take MM pets why would you take those? That makes the trap secondary worthless.

Demons are way too big (especially tier 2) and are annoying, BUT I personally do highly suggest them.

They have -RES which will stack with tar patch.

They do a lot of damage, and varied damage (and you'll be debuffing all damage types), and a lot of AoE at 32.

Shadow Fall + Ember Shield = RES to all standard damage types, and DEF. Add in maneuvers for more DEF. Then pet aura uniques slotted into Hell on Earth... Yes, your pets become very survivable.

You have an AoE heal. Ember Demon (at 32) has an AoE pulsing heal (same strength as most PBAoE heals, 25 seconds between pulses). Your Dark servant has an AoE heal... You're debuffing tohit, you have resistances and defenses raised... Survival.

The Demon Prince has a ton of -recharge, the only thing except -DEF (none of that in DS sadly) /dark can't consistently debuff. He also has AOE slow, keeping enemies even more likely to stay inside of tar patch, unlike the other survivor pets, bots, which as has been stated, knock them out.

Stack holds with the demon prince, allowing you to hold things neither sets could on their own.

It seems like an obvious combo to me, especially for someone new to MMs (the arsonist in thugs is great but a pain in the *** to babysit)

Keep complaining about bots and maybe they'll change the knockback. Do you remember how Hand Clap used to be on the Bruiser? It was the same as the regular SS one... It had AoE knockback and would toss all the mobs out of tar patch. So no thugs/dark or thugs/poison (Noxious Gas) ever used Equip Thug (wasn't AoE then) on the Bruiser, because it ruined important powers. Terrible.

Pets can't assist attack... They don't see the target of your target, no. The easiest way to deal with it if you don't want to bother with them is "goto aggressive" into the middle of the mob after you've jumped in and grabbed some aggro. MM pets do get a fair bit of aggro so they will die sometimes... Zombies much sooner. Since you DON'T want to babysit your pets, don't take zombies. They're less survivable. Take Demons or Bots. Since bots doesn't fit your theme, take Demons. The Ember Demon even gets an AoE pulsing heal at 32 (it goes off every 25 seconds, about equal strength to thermal's PBAoE heal). I am not sure if it would heal you... It has a 7 targets max, which I think intends to be the MM, but I am not sure what happens when the MM isn't in the area, haven't paid attention.

Anyway... Bots and Demons at 32 both get a lot of AoE damage. While you focus on the big guy, they can take out all the small guys.

FF is boring but you want boring, and since you don't want the MM paid attention to, it will help keep him alive if anyone does attack him. Thermal is a bit more active, but can mostly be ignored, used for spot heals and shields/forge, debuffs on big guys. Thermal user's only defense is warmth, though. FF MMs are less squishy themselves