Anime ruining Comic Books?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-09-08 10:03 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
Journey to the West, one of the four classic Chinese novels along with Romance of the Three Kingdoms|
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
*scratches head* wait, what?
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one of the central characters is Sun Wukong, aka Old Monkey, aka the Great Sage Equal to Heaven, aka Handsome Monkey, aka The Monkey King
He is born from a stone and leads the monkeys around him to settle a kingdom and fights off or establishes allegiances with the demons, tigers and monsters nearby before going off for a time and seeking the secrets of enlightenment from a sage.
Then death comes for him and he fights his way off, invades Hell and erases his name and the name of many of his generals from the books of Hell insuring that they will live forever. Then he acquires the rod that was used to measure out the oceans and rivers from the dragons, terrorizing them in the process.
He causes so much trouble that heaven sends down a representative to invite Old Monkey to become a minor functionary in hopes that it will calm him down, but he doesn't want to be a minor functionary (takes care of the Jade Court's stables) and wants to be equated to the highest of titles and causes no end of trouble in heaven, rebuffing all the gods and immortals, stealing the peaches of immortality and drinking of them, ruining the holy peach festival and breaking the walls of heaven and defeating the armies of heaven
It isn't until the Jade Emperor calls upon the help of Buddha that Old Monkey is finally humbled and trapped under five elements mountain until such time as the seeker for the scrolls should come by at which time, Monkey was to become his disciple and aid him in his quest to the West for the holy scriptures.
In DBZ, the stone egg is replaced by the capsule, the first master (who wanted Sun Wukong never to tell who trained him for fear of the embarrassment of being connected to the monkey) is Master Roshi....Bulma is the replacement for the holy monk seeking the scriptures which are replaced by the dragon balls (which also replace the holy peaches of immortality). Other characters are further replaced, such as the bandit from the sea of sand. And the pig.
Journey to the West is fairly analogous to Western tradition's Labor's of Heracles, the Argonauts or perhaps the Odyssey.
Oh, btw....
I've seen an awesome dissertation on Trigun as a study on Christianity, and, having watched the show, I would have to say it is one of the few animes that gets Christianity down fairly well. At least in the philosophy of the main character, the actually priests are less faithful.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
I see. Seems more like after DBZ was out people thought hey this is kind of similar to XYZ let's see what other parallels we can draw where none actually exist. Much like how people apply religious and/or racist connotations to completely mundane things.
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No, the author was pretty blatant about the original DBZ being a retelling of Journey to the West (written 14th-16th century forget when exactly), which itself is a collection and retelling of even older myths and legends.|
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I see. This sounds like applying a similar story to a story that is only coincidentally similar. Much like how people apply religious and/or racist connotations to completely mundane things.
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Goku is even the name given to Sun Wukong in the Japanese translations of Journey to the West.
They base their stories on their past mythologies just like we do.
Superman is simply an extension of Sigurd or Heracles or other such great heroes.
Batman is an extension of the myth of the clever hero on the path of righteous revenge such as Odysseus.
Our stories are the product of our culture which is the product of past stories, experienced, told or read.
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"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
There are few iconic characters. However there are a number of iconic long running franchises whose characters are well known.
Space Battleship Yamato
Gundam, the original Universal Century universe
Lupin III
Cutey Honey
Those have been around 30 or more years. For less time but iconic during it's era.
Dragonball
Sailor Moon
Patlabor
Ranma 1/2
Dirty Pair
Urusei Yatsura
One Piece
Bleach
Naruto
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Does Astro Boy count?
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Akira Toriyama intended Dragonball to be a modern retelling of "A Journey to the West" but after a while it took on a life of it's own.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I see. Seems more like after DBZ was out people thought hey this is kind of similar to XYZ let's see what other parallels we can draw where none actually exist. Much like how people apply religious and/or racist connotations to completely mundane things.
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Oh geez, SMACK, how could I've forgotten to include anything by Osamu Tezuka, the God of Manga. Of course Astro Boy counts.
Toss in Leiji Matsumoto's universe of Captain Harlock/Queen Emeraldas/Galaxy Express 999 and Go Nagai's Mazinger Z and Getter Robo iconic giant robot series.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
Or the Gundams|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Oh geez, SMACK, how could I've forgotten to include anything by Osamu Tezuka, the God of Manga. Of course Astro Boy counts.
Toss in Leiji Matsumoto's universe of Captain Harlock/Queen Emeraldas/Galaxy Express 999 and Go Nagai's Mazinger Z and Getter Robo iconic giant robot series. |
Heero Yui and Wing Gundam, regardless of your appreciation of that particular show and character definitely count as iconic
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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Only in America. For the Japanese, Char is the Gundam character everyone knows.
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
Or the Gundams
Heero Yui and Wing Gundam, regardless of your appreciation of that particular show and character definitely count as iconic |
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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I must be a genetic anomaly or something. I keep hearing this argument from people who've "lost interest in mainstream comics", and find myself at the complete opposite end of the spectrum.|
Originally Posted by Lycanus
also, I'm also someone who lost interest in DC and Marvel due to their insistence on never advancing the story. Changes and developments in character are negated by the next writer whose own developments are only just getting started when he's replaced and then they're negated and the cycle starts again.
I am not interested in story by committee. Give me one author with a clear beginning, middle and end. Then, if you want a sequel, move on to a sequel, don't just keep telling the story about Batman...we should be telling the story of Batman's heir's heir, whether by blood or otherwise. |
I WANT Batman to continue on. Having Bruce retire or die and focusing on his heir would turn me off the book completely (unless it were a 'what if' story; I love those). I want the X-Men I know and love to stick around. I don't need exact timelines. I just want to see my favorite heroes partaking in the high adventure that they do so well.
The tone of the "don't read Marvel/DC" posts always seem so condescending; implying that I should feel ashamed of my love of these "lesser" comics.
Well screw you all!
I love my comics; continuity errors and all. Frequent resurrections and confusing backstories? Who cares, as long as I get the chance to laugh at Spidey's one-liners, marvel at Batman's resourcefulness, or cheer on Wolverine as he does what he's best at (appearing in multiple titles?
).So suck on that, anime snobs. You can't stop the Comic Revolution. We'll never say die, we'll never give up, and we'll never.....
Wait, they did WHAT to Spidey and MJ?
YOU COMIC BOOK B******S!!!
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They did, and then she got changed back. But that's besides the point. They never should of changed her to the movie version, just because people may come in and start reading the comic for the first time, because they saw the movie.|
Originally Posted by Cowman
Did they change Mystique?
I mean, I know they kinda did in that X-Men Forever mini, but that's pretty much been forgotten about. |
And all this talk of Mystique, makes me want to make a blue skinned superhero in CoH >_> Is that bad?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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There is no lasting change in Marvel or DC.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
They did, and then she got changed back. But that's besides the point. They never should of changed her to the movie version, just because people may come in and start reading the comic for the first time, because they saw the movie.
And all this talk of Mystique, makes me want to make a blue skinned superhero in CoH >_> Is that bad? |
You have people that have been handed masterpieces that they do not truly understand and are trying to desperately figure out why their handling of it isn't as popular as when it first came out.
It's like giving Mozart's sheet music to someone with as little musical talent as myself who knows that it's a masterpiece, but can't make heads or tails of how to read it and decides to just copies bits and pieces of it in different order and see if maybe that will work.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
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And incidentally, it's all pretty awesome up to this point. I highly recommend that people read the first seven chapters just for monkey shenanigans. There are free English translations all over the internet--Wikipedia can point you at one. Past the seventh chapter, it's still fun, but I had to read it a chapter or two at a time--it's very episodic after all the disciples show up.
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
Journey to the West, one of the four classic Chinese novels along with Romance of the Three Kingdoms
one of the central characters is Sun Wukong, aka Old Monkey, aka the Great Sage Equal to Heaven, aka Handsome Monkey, aka The Monkey King He is born from a stone and leads the monkeys around him to settle a kingdom and fights off or establishes allegiances with the demons, tigers and monsters nearby before going off for a time and seeking the secrets of enlightenment from a sage. Then death comes for him and he fights his way off, invades Hell and erases his name and the name of many of his generals from the books of Hell insuring that they will live forever. Then he acquires the rod that was used to measure out the oceans and rivers from the dragons, terrorizing them in the process. He causes so much trouble that heaven sends down a representative to invite Old Monkey to become a minor functionary in hopes that it will calm him down, but he doesn't want to be a minor functionary (takes care of the Jade Court's stables) and wants to be equated to the highest of titles and causes no end of trouble in heaven, rebuffing all the gods and immortals, stealing the peaches of immortality and drinking of them, ruining the holy peach festival and breaking the walls of heaven and defeating the armies of heaven It isn't until the Jade Emperor calls upon the help of Buddha that Old Monkey is finally humbled and trapped under five elements mountain until such time as the seeker for the scrolls should come by at which time, Monkey was to become his disciple and aid him in his quest to the West for the holy scriptures. |
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
The East and West have been stealing from each other, artistically speaking, for centuries.
It's a beautiful cycle and I hope it continues.
The bass tacks of the matter is, the big-eyed look of anime was lifted heavily from Felix the Cat and early Disney(Ub Iwerks). Young Japanese artists of that day were as capivated by a look and style that was as farily novel to them as the style found by kids who grew up in the West 40 years later watching Astroboy and Robotech. What they watched influenced their personal style and what you get is each culture apeing the other's stylistic quirks as viewed through the pure lense of a child's eyes with the end result continuing to mutate and evolve.
The thing is, eventually, the style will cease to be novel due to sheer saturation and its pupularity will wane until the cycle comes back around in the generation after.
The humorous thing to note is who admits to being influenced and when. Currenly, most Western artists freely admit to being influenced by anime and manga, but few Japanese artists will cop to it when they swipe from the West. But when the cycle was at its opposite point, Osamu Tezuka freely admited to being a huge admirer of Disney for example.
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I love being able to look at different artists and tell who's being influenced by who. Really gives the industry a sense of history.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The East and West have been stealing from each other, artistically speaking, for centuries.
It's a beautiful cycle and I hope it continues. The bass tacks of the matter is, the big-eyed look of anime was lifted heavily from Felix the Cat and early Disney(Ub Iwerks). Young Japanese artists of that day were as capivated by a look and style that was as farily novel to them as the style found by kids who grew up in the West 40 years later watching Astroboy and Robotech. What they watched influenced their personal style and what you get is each culture apeing the other's stylistic quirks as viewed through the pure lense of a child's eyes with the end result continuing to mutate and evolve. The thing is, eventually, the style will cease to be novel due to sheer saturation and its pupularity will wane until the cycle comes back around in the generation after. The humorous thing to note is who admits to being influenced and when. Currenly, most Western artists freely admit to being influenced by anime and manga, but few Japanese artists will cop to it when they swipe from the West. But when the cycle was at its opposite point, Osamu Tezuka freely admited to being a huge admirer of Disney for example. . |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The East and West have been stealing from each other, artistically speaking, for centuries.
It's a beautiful cycle and I hope it continues. The bass tacks of the matter is, the big-eyed look of anime was lifted heavily from Felix the Cat and early Disney(Ub Iwerks). Young Japanese artists of that day were as capivated by a look and style that was as farily novel to them as the style found by kids who grew up in the West 40 years later watching Astroboy and Robotech. What they watched influenced their personal style and what you get is each culture apeing the other's stylistic quirks as viewed through the pure lense of a child's eyes with the end result continuing to mutate and evolve. The thing is, eventually, the style will cease to be novel due to sheer saturation and its pupularity will wane until the cycle comes back around in the generation after. The humorous thing to note is who admits to being influenced and when. Currenly, most Western artists freely admit to being influenced by anime and manga, but few Japanese artists will cop to it when they swipe from the West. But when the cycle was at its opposite point, Osamu Tezuka freely admited to being a huge admirer of Disney for example. . |
Rumiko Takahashi's work has some clear parallels to Tex Avery's. Ranma 1/2 and Rockin' Red Riding Hood especially.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
I would have to say that you should go to different websites...lol... Anyhow, Anime/Manga/etc/etc......is a form of art. Those that choose to read this form of comic is there choice. I can only remember reading on Anime (and that was a star trek comic)....
The thing of it is is that anime IS perhaps more accessible online than comics from the big 2 (ie DC and Marvel).
The other thing with anime is that those that are into to Cos-Play gravitate to anime and manga.
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
We're not just destroyers, at the same time we can be saviors. - Allen Walker