What you have there is just as expensive as any good lvl 50 perma build.
No, U been tolded brothah....
In addition, perma isn't now and never has been the end all be all. Some people played dominator's because they were fun.
Quote:
Funny thing is, I built something similar last year on my Mind/Energy. It actually did become more fun once I was 50 and I had more recharge because I was able to chain together high damage attacks, pump out Mez attacks fast enough to perma confuse/hold AVs, and more damaage via double stacked domination.|
Originally Posted by Misaligned
...
Now you've been told. .... |
I think when these people told you this info, it was generally true before the dom changes when domination became a break free + endurance recovery power. Nowadays, You really don't even need domination if you play smart. Heck, you didn't need it before the changes either. These people that told you this must have been the typical fire/psi farmers of old that got their builds from other people.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
What you have there is just as expensive as any good lvl 50 perma build.
No, U been tolded brothah.... In addition, perma isn't now and never has been the end all be all. Some people played dominator's because they were fun. |
Read much? Or just jump in and spout what you feel for the world to bask? Way to miss the point that a) You don't NEED purples and b) you don't NEED to be 50 to be perma.
Quoting the other part you missed in your careful reading:
Quote:
| The proposed build is not "cheap". A lot of the sets used are in high demand due to the +recharge bonuses. They can sometimes cost more than purple sets at 50 (I bought a whole set of purple confuse for a plant/ controller for 50mil for example). However, this build is significantly cheaper than a build with 3 or more sets of purples. |
And yes, while some people play Dominators because they were fun, this doesn't mean that Dominators haven't gotten a bad rep for being expensive to build to effective levels. Some people play petless masterminds because they're "fun" for them. It still doesn't wipe away the bad rep.
THIS is a link to a thread going on the front page of this forum. See the 1st response. The general assumption is that a) you need to spend a boat-load on your dom and b) that you can't begin the actual build for it until you get to 50.
In fact, you yourself in this very same thread suggest that the person make a brute... because Doms are only good for +2 (I assume you mean x2 as you said the brute could be +8). And you're here jumping over me about... what exactly?
Actually... I am fairly puzzled with what your exact problem is with my post? You think this information should not be shared? You think that only people who are... nope. Can't come up with anything. Do you just feel the need to argue?
But hey, thanks for your 2 cents. Next time, try reading for comprehension before telling someone off.
@SimonSayz
Quote:
| I think when these people told you this info, it was generally true before the dom changes when domination became a break free + endurance recovery power. Nowadays, You really don't even need domination if you play smart. Heck, you didn't need it before the changes either. These people that told you this must have been the typical fire/psi farmers of old that got their builds from other people. |
I am giving concrete evidence that someone can potentially have what others consider to be "effective" long before 50 and without the heavy investment in purples.
Maybe someone, who is like me, will come here, read this thread and see that they can in fact play the dom they wanted to play for fun and not have to wonder if they picked an AT that requires huge amounts of inf to be good only at level 50.
Playing a petless MM and a non-perma Dom are two very different things; one is inherently gimped as it goes against the grain of it's most basic design, the Dom is not.
That said, I'd agree that it doesn't have to be expensive to play a Dom. 
I'd also say it doesn't have to be perma nor even 50 to be effective and fun (I almost never play my 50s, for one thing).
The opinions you hear on these forums and in the game are often at the extreme outer edges of how things really work, such as "Stalkers are useless" or "Dom have to be perma and 50", so quoting them isn't really forwarding your argument too much for me; granted, they do exist, but so do people who think the moon landing was faked.
Still, I liked everything above the "Now you've been told" part. Doms are a blast at any level and any reasonable build, perma or not.
had permadom on my mind/psi without purples as well and of course before 50.
crushing impacts
positron's blasts
malaise
sandman
obliteration
lotg 7.5's
purples were just icing on the cake though
The only problem I see is getting some of those sets at a lower level.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Crushing Impacts can definitely be a pain to get in the low 30's, the rest it kind of varies. Storing stuff in your base helps tremendously of course 
Dominators are power, they are awesome.
They are NOT in any way shape or form cheap.
I would not under any circumstances recomend a dominator to a new player with limted resources.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Permadom is optional not required for the AT to perform, but a better question is why not build for permadom? You no longer get the damage bonus, but permadom means an end refill every 70-90 seconds, complete mez, kb, and repel protection, and extra mag and duration for all your mezzes.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
This right here demonstrates a fundamental break in opinion on what 'cheap' means.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Dominators are power, they are awesome.
They are NOT in any way shape or form cheap. |
I've made a permadom for 20 million inf. That's less than you get levelling up from 40 to 50.
If you are bad at the market, bad with money, bad at building, and bad at playing, dominators are incredibly expensive because you need domination, you need lots of money, and you need purples.
However, if you're able to read, none of these problems should persist for long.
Quote:
I'd like to see this 20 million build.|
Originally Posted by Talen Lee
I've made a permadom for 20 million inf. That's less than you get levelling up from 40 to 50.
|
Unless you mean something like "started with 20 million, then played the market with it".
Culex's resistance guide
Permadom has always been possible without purples. Mind Control especially has always been very cheap to permadom, even at lower levels. Sleep sets, confuse sets and KB sets are all very cheap and offer good +rech bonuses.
Failing that, 2 kins :3
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
I'm sry to be a grumpy guss as well, but your not perma dom either.... Hasten is not always up, thus you have a 20-30 sec phase that you do not have Hasten which without hasten kicks Domination up to 118 secs... 28 secs over perma, you may be able to stack it once, but after that there will be down time, close but no cigar.
Quote:
Oh, that build exists, and it was cheap.|
Originally Posted by Pitho
I'd like to see this 20 million build.
Unless you mean something like "started with 20 million, then played the market with it". |
To be fair, it did use some interesting power picks to do it. Six slotted Presence pool taunts and the like.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
Quote:
Well, Hasten is not always up. This is true. I'm not building a perma-hasten build, which takes quite a bit more recharge to make happen. But you don't need perma hasten to have perma dom. However, if you do have perma hasten, you will always have perma dom, so that's a plus.|
Originally Posted by Novawulfe
I'm sry to be a grumpy guss as well, but your not perma dom either.... Hasten is not always up, thus you have a 20-30 sec phase that you do not have Hasten which without hasten kicks Domination up to 118 secs... 28 secs over perma, you may be able to stack it once, but after that there will be down time, close but no cigar.
|
Based on the math that Brev did in this thread (linky again) that I linked in the first post you need about 125% global recharge to be perma:
Quote:
| So we need some extra +Recharge Boosts to 'top-up' what Hasten is providing us; in fact we need an average +Recharge boost of about +125% (allowing a second or so overlap). The nice thing of course is that the more additional +Recharge we get, the faster Hasten recharges too, so the more often its +70% will be in effect. |
The build has 138.8% with hasten up. Hasten will have about a 20 second down time, which also fits well within Brev's time frame for "worst case scenario" where Domination comes up right as hasten expires.
The math part, for those who are into that, and can follow it, is HERE.
The build is perma, and by more than a few micro seconds.
It is however, close enough that if you aren't paying attention, and just mashing buttons you can artificially increase the recharge time on hasten and have dom drop.
@Talen Lee and @Pitho:
While I have never managed a full build for 20 mil, I do feel I get them for a lot less than most people. If you work out a build ahead of time, say before your character hits 10. Then actually play the character, and not have it PL'd to 50, you can spread the purchasing of IO sets you know you will want out over the course of your leveling.
I know quite a few people who slot w/e until they hit 50. Then they go to the market, spend an hour buying things to fill all 91-94 slots at "buy it now!" prices. These people will almost always pay quite a bit more than anyone with some patience.
Another thing to note is that level 35 enhancements provide nearly identical numbers as level 50 enhancements when slotting sets. This also usually applies when you are frankenslotting for max effect. Is the level 50 IO set better? Across a whole build, sure - by a very very tiny amount.
With this in mind, you can open up your purchase window from 50 only, to 35-50. This gives you 15 more levels of product to work with. And when you're talking about procs, almost every single proc is identical at every level of enhancement. Some enhancements cost less at 50. Those you can wait on if you're short on cash.
Well if you've done the math on it cool, it's just at first glance, it would seem not perma. Have you managed to account in arcana time?
Quote:
Uh, 'arcana time' has little to no impact on perma-anything discussions. That server tick delay's really nothing compared to total recharge times and even cast times for pretty much anything you'd want to perma, and you aren't worried about the delay after executing the power, since it's already in effect by the time that delay kicks in. Plus you want wiggle room anyway for all kinds of reasons anyway, and the build has that already.|
Originally Posted by Novawulfe
Well if you've done the math on it cool, it's just at first glance, it would seem not perma. Have you managed to account in arcana time?
|
Overall, arcanatime's only of real concern to executing rapid succession of powers (i.e. attack chain discussions).
Quote:
Are you sure? They well be using an "Attack chain" while the powers are charging, so unless they are not attacking at the time, it still plays apart...
|
Originally Posted by Alef_infinity
Uh, 'arcana time' has little to no impact on perma-anything discussions. That server tick delay's really nothing compared to total recharge times and even cast times for pretty much anything you'd want to perma, and you aren't worried about the delay after executing the power, since it's already in effect by the time that delay kicks in. Plus you want wiggle room anyway for all kinds of reasons anyway, and the build has that already.
Overall, arcanatime's only of real concern to executing rapid succession of powers (i.e. attack chain discussions). |
I came in here expecting a cheat ghetto perma dom/
i disappount
Quote:
Which is why discussions of "perma" anything typically allow at least a full second of overlap, in case you're still coming out of an animation when it recharges. And it's not really the Arcanatime lag that matters here - you just need to be careful not to start a 3-second animation just before Domination recharges, but that's simple. You just break your attack chain for 1-2 seconds.
|
Originally Posted by Novawulfe
Are you sure? They well be using an "Attack chain" while the powers are charging, so unless they are not attacking at the time, it still plays apart...
|
[QUOTE=Misaligned;3178541]Read much? Or just jump in and spout what you feel for the world to bask? Way to miss the point that a) You don't NEED purples and b) you don't NEED to be 50 to be perma.
Quoting the other part you missed in your careful reading:
Seems that I never said this was a OMGsocheapyoucanbuilditwithSOs build, did I?
And yes, while some people play Dominators because they were fun, this doesn't mean that Dominators haven't gotten a bad rep for being expensive to build to effective levels. Some people play petless masterminds because they're "fun" for them. It still doesn't wipe away the bad rep.
THIS is a link to a thread going on the front page of this forum. See the 1st response. The general assumption is that a) you need to spend a boat-load on your dom and b) that you can't begin the actual build for it until you get to 50.
In fact, you yourself in this very same thread suggest that the person make a brute... because Doms are only good for +2 (I assume you mean x2 as you said the brute could be +8). And you're here jumping over me about... what exactly?
Actually... I am fairly puzzled with what your exact problem is with my post? You think this information should not be shared? You think that only people who are... nope. Can't come up with anything. Do you just feel the need to argue?
But hey, thanks for your 2 cents. Next time, try reading for comprehension before telling someone off. ( end of what I was quoting and dinner is almost ready so I am not redoing my whole post).
I read very well. I also comprehend what I read regarding dominators based on practical play experience since City of Villians release. You made a post suggesting that dominators have been touted " not viable" unless perma. You made a post suggesting that you made the first ever perma dom before level 50 while at the same time inferring that perma is not necessary. I simply stated that your "barely" perma build is just as expensive as most level50 full perma builds.I concluded with the point that perma domination was never necessary for a dominator to play well in the hands of a domlover either befor or after the debatable dom"buff".
If the archives before the new forums were still here any player would be able to look up multiple threads regarding dom play and "perma' prior to 35 before purples even existed in the game.
You rubbed me the wrong way with " You've been told". I hate to bring this up but I seriously doubt you have managed to make 10 level 50 dominator's since your registration date of July 2010. You didnt tell most dom forum readers ANYTHING they don't already know and you also didnt achieve anthing that hasnt been done before . Your post is snarky. I recognize snark. That's another area at which I excel...... Queen of Snarkisms!
Anyway? I'm happy for you and the fun you are having. But perma has never been a necessity for dominator's to be successful archetypes. Perma is icing on the cake. Nothing more. When you can tell me something I don't already know then insult me. So? Get over your little snit..... like I said " No U been told, brothah".
Edited to add that brutes are superior farmers to dominators under the current system. You alluded to a post I made regarding that issue. If a player wants a farmer then a brute is the best candidate for that redside. I am not going to mislead a player .I do not sugarcoat. Sorry.I also stated that depending on what the players idea of successfull time vs reward would play a part in the choice of brute or dominator.
If being honest is a crime throw me in ******* jail.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Which is why discussions of "perma" anything typically allow at least a full second of overlap, in case you're still coming out of an animation when it recharges. And it's not really the Arcanatime lag that matters here - you just need to be careful not to start a 3-second animation just before Domination recharges, but that's simple. You just break your attack chain for 1-2 seconds.
|
You are correct . In addition, the build listed in the op would likely be a nightmare for most players to juggle because the majority don't have a clue how to manage exactly what you have described.Yes, it simple for people that know to avoid a long animation power in order to max a rech( or any) perma state. However, most players dont "get " that.
Quote:
You failed to read his posts twice now.|
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
I read very well. I also comprehend what I read regarding dominators based on practical play experience since City of Villians release. You made a post suggesting that dominators have been touted " not viable" unless perma. You made a post suggesting that you made the first ever perma dom before level 50 while at the same time inferring that perma is not necessary. I simply stated that your "barely" perma build is just as expensive as most level50 full perma builds.I concluded with the point that perma domination was never necessary for a dominator to play well in the hands of a domlover either befor or after the debatable dom"buff".
|
In his first post he did not anywhere claim to have the first sub 50, and he agrees with you that dom is not necessary and he in fact states that it is not necessary and never was in the top few sentences of his first post with the whole "Or so I was told" line.
And he also knows that the build is not any cheaper and gives a whole paragraph about it being just as expensive.
So you are trying to argue by agreeing with everything he said. And then you did the exact same thing A SECOND TIME.
Really, this is pretty funny. Go for three?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Read the original Op . I was in and responded before he edited.
ediited to add:: O wait!! You can't. Also? I reported your post as offtopic,Gavinperson.
Ahhh, Perma-Dom. The "ultimate" experience for any dominator. One that most people can't afford because they're really expensive.
Or so I was told.
It is at Perma-Dom levels that the dominator becomes enjoyable.
Or so I was told.
When you can get to 50 (or at least 47) and can slot purplez, then your dominator will be awesome!
Or so I was told.
"Is that dom perma? - No... lawl, he doesn't even have any purple set bonuses!"
"How much recharge does it take to get perma anyways? - A LOT! 3-4 purple sets for sure. Prolly lots of LotG procs too."
Or so I was told.
All of the above are what have effectively kept me from playing a Dominator. All of the above are completely false.
Now you've been told.
Not only do you absolutely NOT need any purple sets at all to make your dominator perma, you don't even need to be 50. Or 47. Or even 40*. I was disgruntled that I was going to have to wait 47+ levels for a character I wanted to create to finally be "fun". So I hopped into Mids and decided to see just how much inf it was going to cost me once I hit 50 to make my next project fun. Surprisingly, not any more than I would spend on any other character. Also, very surprisingly to me, I didn't even need to be 50.
At levels below 50, nearly all dominators can be perma. It requires taking hasten (duh). And occasionally 1 or 2 powers are not "optimally" slotted, but then again, who's powers are all 100% "optimally" slotted? For the most part, I try to avoid mules (slotting a power for an effect you wouldn't normally slot it for just for set bonuses), and I feel I succeeded with my build (for the most part).
Between Mid's and the guide about perma-dom in this forum ( LINK ), I was able to make a Plant/Fire (my choice) that was perma at 36. The single caveat to this build is the LotG proc you should use (1 in combat jumping). This single proc can either be purchased off the market, or if you prefer, you can do 5 tip missions a day while you level (staying a villain) and have one for yourself in 4 days (technically its 6 days, as your first morality mission gives reward merits and not alignment merits).
For anyone looking to play a Dominator, but fearing that they require billions of inf and 50 levels of "un-fun" play, I say "LET THE MASSES BE DARNED! Go forth! Make ye the king of Domination! Then show up at 37 for the ITF and cackle with glee when you tell the non-believers that you're PERMA BABY!"
Notes:
Purple sets are not bad. The +ACC and +Recharge you get from 5 slotting them goes a long way in loosening up a build.
Perma-dom is not for every build. Some of the sets benefit more from perma, some less. YMMV.
*Not all sets can be perma-dom by 36. Some take a few more levels.
The proposed build is not "cheap". A lot of the sets used are in high demand due to the +recharge bonuses. They can sometimes cost more than purple sets at 50 (I bought a whole set of purple confuse for a plant/ controller for 50mil for example). However, this build is significantly cheaper than a build with 3 or more sets of purples.
Below is the build I used (am using) for my plant/fire to be perma-dom at 36. I may just keep him at that level - who knows!?
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Perma-Dom @ 36: Level 37 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(21), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(21), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(23)
Level 1: Flares -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(17), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19)
Level 2: Roots -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(3), Posi-Dam%(15), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Incinerate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- Mlais-Acc/Rchg(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(9), Mlais-Acc/EndRdx(9), Mlais-Conf/Rng(11), Mlais-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(29), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Health -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(25), Dct'dW-Heal(25), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 16: Embrace of Fire -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Vines -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33)
Level 20: Combustion -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(36)
Level 24: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 28: Consume -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(34), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36)
Level 35: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
A couple of notes on the build:
The stealth proc in SS is a personal choice. I like being able to line up Seeds of Confusion without getting blasted.
Endurance should not be an issue, even with stamina 2-slotted. With Domination coming up less than every 90 seconds and consume available every 65-70 seconds, you'll have plenty of opportunities to reclaim endurance.
If I proceed to level past 36, Creepers will be slotted for damage instead of a single recharge. Health will also be dropped to 3 slots. Other minor tweaks will also happen, but for the most part, the powers are slotted the way I will have them at 50.
I hope this helps some folks who are wanting to play a Dominator, but are holding back due to some very incorrect publicity on how much they cost are how much work they are to get to a "fun" level.
Edit: Added the data chunk from Mid's - not sure why that didn't export the first time... hmmm.