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Tim had a birthday recently at the beginning of that whole thing. He was either 18 or 20, but I can't remember.|
Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
This timeline is flawed. Tim was 6 when Dick's parents were killed. That would make him 25-26 now, by this timeline. No writer writes him as that old, and current Red Robin writer Fabian Nicieza is on record last month stating that Tim is 17. There are so many contradictory stories about how long ago in in-universe time certain events happened that you just can't make a definitive timeline.
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Batman and Nightwing stories tend to switch between 10 and 15 years even though they are talking from the same point in time (a few years into Tim's Robiness) and are referring to roughly the same time period (Since Batman became Batman and since Dick lost his parents.)
If we're going to go off of dates like that then Dick lost his parents and became Robin 5 years before Bruce became Batman and we know that isn't right.
Even Conservatively you have to deny the idea that Tim is 17.
Tim became Robin at age 13 or 14 and was a freshman in Highschool
KnightSaga took place over the course of a year
NML lasted for a year
Bruce, Dick, Tim were gone for a year.
That would place Tim as a minimum of 16 or 17 after OYL
Not only that Tim does bad in school (even had been threatened with being held back i believe) due to being Robin and transferring so much and Tim graduated from HS some time ago which would mean that he had to have been no younger than 17 long before the story was written...
Further, no matter how you slice it, the holding of Wayne Tech and such could NEVER be taken over ny him if he was just 17. All of his inheritance would be under Dick's or Alfred's command and he would never be allowed to be the face of the corporation.
No matter how you slice it the Timeline cannot work with less than the following
Y0
+2 Batman working alone -
+6 Robin I years
+2 Robin II years
+1 Batman working alone years
+2 Robin III in action before Batman II. (NY min license req. age 16)
+1 KS
+1 NML
+1 OYL
So at minimum there is 16 years since Batman's debut, 14 since Dicks, and 5 since Tim's which places them at minimum of 42ish, 24ish, and 19ish.
However if we take Nightwing's 15 years ago which he uses a lot around NML that bumps the timeline up a bit to make those minimums go up a year or two. Strangely... this all matches.
The reason for Batman's 10ya and various editors getting it wrong is cuz the official stance keeps on changing and they keep on trying to compress time which makes less and less sense. Dick and Tim are bad at school. It is impossible for them to graduate "on time" not before or after, which they do, and skipping classes like the compressed timelines suggest they do.
Let's not even bring in how much more ludicrous Tim doing that while transferring between schools and schools closing down and travelling around the world for a year.
On the topic of whether there would still be Batman stories being printed in 100 years, I think there might be. After all, we are still making movies about Robin Hood... Batman, Superman et al are modern myths/ deities. Ther is no reason why they shouldn't still be around.
Now, while Batman has indeed rejected various enhancements, if the stories are being written in the future by someone for whom such technology is not only available but commonplace, I think it entirely possible that the stories would have to change to reflect that. As mentioned above, skill might play a bigger role and the emphasis might be on Bruce's intellect, skill and obsession even more than at present.
But I also wonder about what Syndrome said in The Incredibles: if, in the future, everyone is "super", would we need to have these stories being told anymore, or would we simply pump up the character's power levels to remain above the new human baseline?
Est sularis oth Mithas
Currently, if we had a mad scientist running around, we'd have someone that would roughly equal Aquaman...
A muscle fiber suit that is lead lined with a carbon-nanofiber outside... possibly with nanotech that can regen the entire suit and cover it in pixel paint that can change colors.
That would make you some 10 times stronger and faster and nigh invulnerable and extremely stealthy...
Next you throw nano-tech in the blood stream and you can hold your breath underwater for an hour and possibly even breath underwater.
And then we add in the pixel lenses and various micro-cams that would allow view the entire spectrum and have information displayed to you on the fly with even vital read outs for yourself...
Of course there is also the Stealth materials that could be thrown on there for various EM spectrums...and you could plug in various other components to have more limbs.
Of course there is a matter of powering this stuff, but if you have some type of nuclear battery that isn't a real prob right now... but in the future we'll have wireless power and better wireless net... but hey the nuke would be fine for a mad scientist...
We are literally at that level...if someone were insane enough to do it... and rich enough.
Consider that most of this stuff will be common place in any combative person, criminals and athletes will use it a lot...and a number of these will be common in the populace like if we get the carbon-nanofibers down low enough we'll be using it in clothes which means everyone will be bullet proof to some degree in the future..and want a dif logo on your shirt you just change it via an interface of some sort, probably accessed via voice controls or virtual projection that uses a camara/pixel lense system
So the job that Batman does becomes both harder and easier as people are both more invulnerable but also more dangers.
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Well here's the thing though, in Batman Beyond it wasn't his heart problem that directly prompted him to retire and not pass on the mantle until Terry came along. It was that he broke his own personal rule of honor about guns when he was down and "big bad scary Batman" had to resort to grabbing a gun that was dropped in the fight. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Frost
True but for contrast look at how Bruce adapted in Kingdom Come to the times. In Kingdom Come he felt he had to keep fighting the good fight and did what he had to do to stay in it. In Batman Beyond other heroes were around to handle things and he passed on the mantle so things went very differently. I think it really comes down to the good fight, if Batman thinks it is okay for him to fade away then he will, if not then he'll keep going until he is a brain in a jar if that is what it takes he just won't like it.
In short I think Batman sees enhancments and the lilke as cheating, but he is willing to cheat to protect other people if he has to. |
Sure there were other heroes to fight the good fight, but Gotham did not have a Batman at all, and even though the city modernized with the times, it still went to pieces in terms of crime and law enforcement, and Bruce due to being depressed at having to retire as Batman stopped caring about pretty much everything which was why Derek Powers took over Wayne Enterprises.
When he showed Terry the exo armor that was clearly based on Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns armor, he said it placed too much strain on his heart, yet he had no heart problems against Inque. He simply fought her and pretended to be stuck until Terry got free and finished the fight.
Even Terry was skeptical that a heart problem stopped him from being Batman and Bruce being all secretive never told him about his final mission and that gun.
Had Bruce not grabbed that gun he would still have carried on as Batman despite his age and then may well have contemplated something like the Lazarus Pit.
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You can pick and choose what to believe is true all you want. Dick's time with Batman is more like 5 years, to start. I can't find a concrete date on Jason's time as Robin, but to assume that there was full year between him and Tim is to assume that, for those 15 issues, DC time was moving in real time, which just doesn't happen. Tim was stated to have a special case license by the writers at the time of the Knight saga, due to his father's incapacitation at the time. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
Tim had a birthday recently at the beginning of that whole thing. He was either 18 or 20, but I can't remember.
Batman and Nightwing stories tend to switch between 10 and 15 years even though they are talking from the same point in time (a few years into Tim's Robiness) and are referring to roughly the same time period (Since Batman became Batman and since Dick lost his parents.) If we're going to go off of dates like that then Dick lost his parents and became Robin 5 years before Bruce became Batman and we know that isn't right. Even Conservatively you have to deny the idea that Tim is 17. Tim became Robin at age 13 or 14 and was a freshman in Highschool KnightSaga took place over the course of a year NML lasted for a year Bruce, Dick, Tim were gone for a year. That would place Tim as a minimum of 16 or 17 after OYL Not only that Tim does bad in school (even had been threatened with being held back i believe) due to being Robin and transferring so much and Tim graduated from HS some time ago which would mean that he had to have been no younger than 17 long before the story was written... Further, no matter how you slice it, the holding of Wayne Tech and such could NEVER be taken over ny him if he was just 17. All of his inheritance would be under Dick's or Alfred's command and he would never be allowed to be the face of the corporation. No matter how you slice it the Timeline cannot work with less than the following Y0 +2 Batman working alone - +6 Robin I years +2 Robin II years +1 Batman working alone years +2 Robin III in action before Batman II. (NY min license req. age 16) +1 KS +1 NML +1 OYL So at minimum there is 16 years since Batman's debut, 14 since Dicks, and 5 since Tim's which places them at minimum of 42ish, 24ish, and 19ish. However if we take Nightwing's 15 years ago which he uses a lot around NML that bumps the timeline up a bit to make those minimums go up a year or two. Strangely... this all matches. The reason for Batman's 10ya and various editors getting it wrong is cuz the official stance keeps on changing and they keep on trying to compress time which makes less and less sense. Dick and Tim are bad at school. It is impossible for them to graduate "on time" not before or after, which they do, and skipping classes like the compressed timelines suggest they do. Let's not even bring in how much more ludicrous Tim doing that while transferring between schools and schools closing down and travelling around the world for a year. |
Bottom line is that editorial fiat will keep compressing things down to keep Batman's age believable for him being that active. Your timeline becomes void whenever a writer decides to change a few of the facts, and be ready for that to happen again and again, making your timeline an even worse fit as time goes by. They're never going to move to a real time timeline, they'll just keep compressing.
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
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Welcome to The Singularity.| But I also wonder about what Syndrome said in The Incredibles: if, in the future, everyone is "super", would we need to have these stories being told anymore, or would we simply pump up the character's power levels to remain above the new human baseline? |
The question that is being asked here is essentially "what will superhuman heroes look like when the definition of 'human' has changed?" The answer is, as John W. Campbell told Vernon Vinge, "You can't write that story. Neither can anyone else".
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Ugh, that hurt my head to read.
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Originally Posted by Venture
Welcome to The Singularity.
The question that is being asked here is essentially "what will superhuman heroes look like when the definition of 'human' has changed?" The answer is, as John W. Campbell told Vernon Vinge, "You can't write that story. Neither can anyone else". |
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Yeah I wondered that as at some point our tech will rival that of ironman and eventually surpass it. Who will be our super heroes then when anyone can be super man?|
Originally Posted by Venture
Welcome to The Singularity.
The question that is being asked here is essentially "what will superhuman heroes look like when the definition of 'human' has changed?" The answer is, as John W. Campbell told Vernon Vinge, "You can't write that story. Neither can anyone else". |
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| i do think that just because the tech changes, that for some reason Bruce's core character is going to end up changing to the point where he wouldn't be recognizable by current fans. |
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Anyone could be the Punisher, but only one man chooses to be the Punisher. Likewise even when everyone could be Iron Man it will still take exceptional people to BE Iron Man. Just the difference is he'll be treated more as "street hero" like Dare Devil instead of a technological world leader 'cause he won't be that out of the ordinary anymore.|
Originally Posted by Lastjustice
Yeah I wondered that as at some point our tech will rival that of ironman and eventually surpass it. Who will be our super heroes then when anyone can be super man?
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Besides given the number of heroes we still enjoy see using melee weapons against lasers, guns and explosives I'm sure we will still suspend our disbelief in the future to allow heroes to fight modern villians with antiquated weapons or techniques.
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The Robot Suit Repair man.|
Originally Posted by Lastjustice
Yeah I wondered that as at some point our tech will rival that of ironman and eventually surpass it. Who will be our super heroes then when anyone can be super man?
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All well and good being able to fly at supersonic speeds, throw cars and fire lasers, but when you get the RROD on your super suit or the left booster rocket is refusing to fire what do you do then?
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While it wouldn't be my prefered method of getting rid of batman, if its all I had, I'd go with it.
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
but who amoung us really wants to see Bruce grow old and die? /I] in the same role, growing older and eventually being phased out in favour of the new cast.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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Isn't there a comic where someone is living in a city filled with supers and he is the only normal one?
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
normalman. Probably not what you meant though....
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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as was brought up, technically anyone can be Punisher, but only one man actually IS the Punisher. But that means writers will have to focus on the content of the character and what makes them heroic instead of just trying to figure out new ways to use their kewl powerz.|
Originally Posted by Lastjustice
Yeah I wondered that as at some point our tech will rival that of ironman and eventually surpass it. Who will be our super heroes then when anyone can be super man?
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| I picture some character becoming period pieces. (such as Clark Kent having a job at a paper.) Things that made sense at the time they were conceived probably won't make sense the further things go. I just picture them making the events of the comics forever locked in the 20th century as medevil fantasy is always the way it is. |
With this difference who knows ^.^