He has it all planned out, don't worry.
Watch Batman Beyond. It will answer all your questions.
It's called Batman Bey-
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Dammit.
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Originally Posted by BlackArachnia
Watch Batman Beyond. It will answer all your questions.
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Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Yeah, I considered mentioning Batman Beyond, but I am talking about the real world. In 40 or 50 years, real-time, what will Batman be like? Assuming they are still writing stories about the character. Will DC (or whatever company, if another takes over takes over) still be writing about Bruce Wayne? Or will they allow time to pass in the comic and move on to the next generation?
I am basically askiing about the stories about Bruce that will be told in the future, not the future within the comic universe.
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Bruce Wayne will be still be a thirty something man in an ineffectual crusade against evil. His gadgets will change with the times, but the essential character remains the same.
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There's the whole upcoming Batman Inc. thing where the Bat gets franchised in-universe.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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See, I kind of thought that. The core of the character is a normal man. I don't see them making him a superpowered being. But, if medical science in the real world ever advances to the state that we can augment ourselves to mildly superhuman levels, wouldn't he be stupid not to avail himself of that? If-- in the real world-- nanotechnology ever advances to a point where normal everyday people can have them heal wounds quickly, or whatever, wouldn't Bruce-- whose tech is beyond everyday-- have something better? Would he have cyberware, for example?
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Originally Posted by Kasoh
Bruce Wayne will be still be a thirty something man in an ineffectual crusade against evil. His gadgets will change with the times, but the essential character remains the same.
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I think at this point it's somewhat a matter of should the DCU's timeline stick and be allowed to advance pretty much in real time... I think it should, because if it doesn't several characters will get lost.
The time reset before 1986 is ok because before the modern age DC was pretty much one off stories that took place in the same universe. Now, if time resets, all development for Dick, Tim, Jason, Barabara, Damian, Stephanie, Cassandra, Helena, Bruce, Clark, Kara, Dinah, and most other chars will be lost almost indefinitely and while the most well known characters will survive all the derivatives have a slim chance of returning...and if they do, by the time they do their stories will be radically different, so much so that there is no point in reseting time to begin with...
This is why I think it would be wiser to just let the world advance in real time. This makes sense since a lot of people already accept the idea of Batman Beyond which if you tie in Batman, inc. this makes sense which various futures shown where Damian takes over which covers the lull between 2030 to 2050 when Terry takes over... This would allow for a transition of sorts.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
I think at this point it's somewhat a matter of should the DCU's timeline stick and be allowed to advance pretty much in real time... I think it should, because if it doesn't several characters will get lost.
The time reset before 1986 is ok because before the modern age DC was pretty much one off stories that took place in the same universe. Now, if time resets, all development for Dick, Tim, Jason, Barabara, Damian, Stephanie, Cassandra, Helena, Bruce, Clark, Kara, Dinah, and most other chars will be lost almost indefinitely and while the most well known characters will survive all the derivatives have a slim chance of returning...and if they do, by the time they do their stories will be radically different, so much so that there is no point in reseting time to begin with... This is why I think it would be wiser to just let the world advance in real time. This makes sense since a lot of people already accept the idea of Batman Beyond which if you tie in Batman, inc. this makes sense which various futures shown where Damian takes over which covers the lull between 2030 to 2050 when Terry takes over... This would allow for a transition of sorts. |
I am of two minds here... Part of me agrees wholeheartedly, but who amoung us really wants to see Bruce grow old and die? Also, I am sure that no matter what happens, DC will keep Bruce around to maintain a copyright on him. Look at Brother Voodoo at Marvel. Horrible character, but they would bring him out every so often to maintain the copyright (and while I am not up on these things anymore, I hear he is the new Sorceror Supreme... Huh?)
But maybe it would end up being like a TV soap opera. Actors stay on for years in the same role, growing older and eventually being phased out in favour of the new cast.
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Batman is roughly 40 right now. He has been aging ever since the modern age started.|
Originally Posted by Kasoh
Bruce Wayne will be still be a thirty something man in an ineffectual crusade against evil. His gadgets will change with the times, but the essential character remains the same.
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When Batman began the creators skipped over his first few years pretty much which put him in the 3rd through 9th year from 1939 to 1985 which placed Batman perpetually in his late 20s, early 30s. But once the modern age started Robin Time started showing and between 1986 and 1989 he ages 3 years and then Tim came along and Bruce over the next 18 years time in the DCU advanced another 4-6 years. Which means by this time he's 40ish years old.
If you take DCU's time line and look at it from Robin Time... roughly 5 years of real time = 1 year in DCU... which also means that their tech advances at about the same speed. So in 2050 our year, it will have passed another 10 years their time and Batman will be 50ish. Funny thing is that is when all the comics say he starts relying on more high tech stuff anyways so...
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Won't happen under DC's current management. DiDio has gone on record against aging characters, and he advocated killing Dick Grayson, the most successfully aged character in DC, before backlash nixed the idea. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
I think at this point it's somewhat a matter of should the DCU's timeline stick and be allowed to advance pretty much in real time... I think it should, because if it doesn't several characters will get lost.
The time reset before 1986 is ok because before the modern age DC was pretty much one off stories that took place in the same universe. Now, if time resets, all development for Dick, Tim, Jason, Barabara, Damian, Stephanie, Cassandra, Helena, Bruce, Clark, Kara, Dinah, and most other chars will be lost almost indefinitely and while the most well known characters will survive all the derivatives have a slim chance of returning...and if they do, by the time they do their stories will be radically different, so much so that there is no point in reseting time to begin with... This is why I think it would be wiser to just let the world advance in real time. This makes sense since a lot of people already accept the idea of Batman Beyond which if you tie in Batman, inc. this makes sense which various futures shown where Damian takes over which covers the lull between 2030 to 2050 when Terry takes over... This would allow for a transition of sorts. |
I think you need a universe where progressing timeline has been accepted from day 1, like Judge Dredd. It's a tough fit in Marvel and DC where they constantly re-invent the "iconic" characters to keep them eternally young.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
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Damn... so he did have it planned...
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Originally Posted by Durakken
So in 2050 our year, it will have passed another 10 years their time and Batman will be 50ish. Funny thing is that is when all the comics say he starts relying on more high tech stuff anyways so...
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Yeah, but Spidey has aged, for example. When I read comics regularly many years ago, I had estimated one Marvel year to be about 4-point-something in real time. That had allowed Peter to go from high school to college, Franklin Richards to age, etc. |
Originally Posted by Agonus
I think you need a universe where progressing timeline has been accepted from day 1, like Judge Dredd. It's a tough fit in Marvel and DC where they constantly re-invent the "iconic" characters to keep them eternally young.
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Now, none of that counts anymore.
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There is a solution to this imo...|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I am of two minds here... Part of me agrees wholeheartedly, but who amoung us really wants to see Bruce grow old and die? Also, I am sure that no matter what happens, DC will keep Bruce around to maintain a copyright on him. Look at Brother Voodoo at Marvel. Horrible character, but they would bring him out every so often to maintain the copyright (and while I am not up on these things anymore, I hear he is the new Sorceror Supreme... Huh?)
But maybe it would end up being like a TV soap opera. Actors stay on for years in the same role, growing older and eventually being phased out in favour of the new cast. |
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight
Have titles dedicated to a specific time period in DCU, but let "main titles" advance.
This allows for it to make sense but at the same time let people experience the characters as they were. I'd love this even now as LotDK covers pretty much a time period before Robin which means unless I go looking for them I will never read about the adventures of Barbara Gordon as Batgirl or Dick Grayson as Robin because those adventures are pretty much not in modern age continuity and it's too much of a pain.
The only thing DC would accomplish by going to a progressive timeline as opposed to a sliding one would be provoking another Crisis in ten to fifteen years when the hooligans writing Batman want their characters to be young and tell stories like when they were growing up.
Same reason we're going through a Silver Age revival at DC now.
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A sliding timeline is still progressive. The sliding Timeline allows them to say that X adventure didn't happen in 2001 when according to the story it happened last year and it's 2010. The sliding timeline says x adventure published in 2001 took place in 2009 in 2010 and in 2020 it will have happened in 2019.|
Originally Posted by Kasoh
The only thing DC would accomplish by going to a progressive timeline as opposed to a sliding one would be provoking another Crisis in ten to fifteen years when the hooligans writing Batman want their characters to be young and tell stories like when they were growing up.
Same reason we're going through a Silver Age revival at DC now. |
This is why their timeline is actually based on a specified point in-universe time and is largely measured in what i call Robin Time...
Superman (age 23) debuts in year 0 or RT -2
Batman (age 26) debuts in year 1 or RT -1
Robin I debuts in year 3 or RT 1
Robin I leaves Batman in year 9 or RT 7
Robin II debuts in year 10 or RT 8
Robin II dies in year 12 or RT 10
Robin III debuts in year 13 or RT 11
Robin III adopts new costume in I believe in year 20 or RT 18.
Robin IV debuts, Dick becomes Batman, and Tim becomes Red Robin in year 22 or RT 20
there is just about no other character you can tell time by in DCU other than by Robin
edit: Also RT18 was in 2006 our time, but in DCU time it happened in 2008 ^.^ This is all it means to have a sliding timeline.
I really don't care what its called. My own apparantly improper terminology aside, a publishing strategy where Batman ages is doomed to be hit with a reset button.
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I could list the specs of a future bat suit and the real advantages that he'll have are not from advanced tech but rather using the common tech that normal people likely wont be using all the time... like artificial muscle fiber which is something like 10 times stronger than real muscle fiber that we are working on to make prosthetics. We're using it in prosthetics cuz works, but you can use it without the prosthetics piece and get the same or near the same result...obviously a steel leg will hold up longer than a bone leg. |
Originally Posted by Kasoh
I really don't care what its called. My own apparantly improper terminology aside, a publishing strategy where Batman ages is doomed to be hit with a reset button.
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The thing about the future is that the skills will make a big difference as everybody could be low grade supermen. Crooks will have to become better marksmen because anything less than a head shot will not work, and even then it might not work to permanently kill someone. A criminal in the future, to kill someone, might have to literally head shot every one of their victims with incendiary rounds that completely burn away the brain so that there is no way to reform it.
Because of this Batman's story will have to change nearly completely in the next 100 years... we're not even talking in the cyber age yet... by the time we get there there will be virtually nothing left of the Bruce character we know.
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that is of course saying that they'll still be publishing Batman stories in 100 years. while im totally behind the idea that the characters ive grown up reading will still be read (in some moderately recognizable form) 100 years from now, i don't really think it'll happen. (but hey, if im still around then, i know ill be pleasantly surprised.) |
Originally Posted by Durakken
Because of this Batman's story will have to change nearly completely in the next 100 years... we're not even talking in the cyber age yet... by the time we get there there will be virtually nothing left of the Bruce character we know.
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i do think that just because the tech changes, that for some reason Bruce's core character is going to end up changing to the point where he wouldn't be recognizable by current fans.
Something to consider is that in the DCU, there are already cybernetic, genetic, and other enhancements available to Bruce Wayne and he chooses not to use them.
A major conceit of Batman's character is that he is the pinnacle of human training: a product of hard work, nigh unlimited resources, and an obsession. The pentiultimate human as it were. If that is missing, its not Bruce Wayne's Batman--it might not even be a Batman.
If in the next hundred years the definition of what is baseline human changes so much, then it is possible to see Batman availing himself of such tech, but given the concept of the character as he exists today, it would be impossible.
If Barbara Gordan is still in a wheelchair, then Bruce Wayne isn't going to be augmenting his body with artificial muscle fiber.
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Season 3 of Batman Beyond also shows Bruce's attitude towards augmentation or rejuvenation when he ultimately rejected the usage of Rha's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit after his first immersion in it. At the end of the episode he was slowly reverting back to his correct age and was more accepting of it.
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Originally Posted by Kasoh
Something to consider is that in the DCU, there are already cybernetic, genetic, and other enhancements available to Bruce Wayne and he chooses not to use them.
A major conceit of Batman's character is that he is the pinnacle of human training: a product of hard work, nigh unlimited resources, and an obsession. The pentiultimate human as it were. If that is missing, its not Bruce Wayne's Batman--it might not even be a Batman. If in the next hundred years the definition of what is baseline human changes so much, then it is possible to see Batman availing himself of such tech, but given the concept of the character as he exists today, it would be impossible. If Barbara Gordan is still in a wheelchair, then Bruce Wayne isn't going to be augmenting his body with artificial muscle fiber. |
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True but for contrast look at how Bruce adapted in Kingdom Come to the times. In Kingdom Come he felt he had to keep fighting the good fight and did what he had to do to stay in it. In Batman Beyond other heroes were around to handle things and he passed on the mantle so things went very differently. I think it really comes down to the good fight, if Batman thinks it is okay for him to fade away then he will, if not then he'll keep going until he is a brain in a jar if that is what it takes he just won't like it. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
Season 3 of Batman Beyond also shows Bruce's attitude towards augmentation or rejuvenation when he ultimately rejected the usage of Rha's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit after his first immersion in it. At the end of the episode he was slowly reverting back to his correct age and was more accepting of it.
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In short I think Batman sees enhancments and the lilke as cheating, but he is willing to cheat to protect other people if he has to.
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Actually the main difference between Batman DCAU and DCU... DCAU's Batman's soldiers have all been killed, turned on him, or messed up beyond repair. We never find out what happens to Dick Grayson in the DCAU but from conversation he got himself killed.|
Originally Posted by Mr_Frost
True but for contrast look at how Bruce adapted in Kingdom Come to the times. In Kingdom Come he felt he had to keep fighting the good fight and did what he had to do to stay in it. In Batman Beyond other heroes were around to handle things and he passed on the mantle so things went very differently. I think it really comes down to the good fight, if Batman thinks it is okay for him to fade away then he will, if not then he'll keep going until he is a brain in a jar if that is what it takes he just won't like it.
In short I think Batman sees enhancments and the lilke as cheating, but he is willing to cheat to protect other people if he has to. |
With this difference who knows ^.^
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This timeline is flawed. Tim was 6 when Dick's parents were killed. That would make him 25-26 now, by this timeline. No writer writes him as that old, and current Red Robin writer Fabian Nicieza is on record last month stating that Tim is 17. There are so many contradictory stories about how long ago in in-universe time certain events happened that you just can't make a definitive timeline.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
A sliding timeline is still progressive. The sliding Timeline allows them to say that X adventure didn't happen in 2001 when according to the story it happened last year and it's 2010. The sliding timeline says x adventure published in 2001 took place in 2009 in 2010 and in 2020 it will have happened in 2019.
This is why their timeline is actually based on a specified point in-universe time and is largely measured in what i call Robin Time... Superman (age 23) debuts in year 0 or RT -2 Batman (age 26) debuts in year 1 or RT -1 Robin I debuts in year 3 or RT 1 Robin I leaves Batman in year 9 or RT 7 Robin II debuts in year 10 or RT 8 Robin II dies in year 12 or RT 10 Robin III debuts in year 13 or RT 11 Robin III adopts new costume in I believe in year 20 or RT 18. Robin IV debuts, Dick becomes Batman, and Tim becomes Red Robin in year 22 or RT 20 there is just about no other character you can tell time by in DCU other than by Robin edit: Also RT18 was in 2006 our time, but in DCU time it happened in 2008 ^.^ This is all it means to have a sliding timeline. |
"I wish my life was a non-stop Hollywood movie show,
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes."
After watching the trailer for Superman/ Batman: Apocalypse, I read a comment about how Batman was "no longer cool" because he had basically become "Iron Man" with a gadget for everything and the ability to always take on villains much stronger than himself, instead of staying with the "street level" stories he was once involved in.
This got me thinking again about a discussion I had with a friend: where does Batman go from here? What will Batman be like in the future?
Batman is known for being a normal man, who defeats enemies through cunning, intelligence and determination (and yeah, gadgets). What happens in the next several decades when real life science allows us to dramatically improve ourselves, either through genetic modification, implants, or whatever you may deem likely to be developed?
Will Batman stay a normal man? Will Bruce Wayne of the year 2050 not only train himself extensively, but use his fortune to genetically improve himself? Will he have cyberware? Will his costume go from some crazy high-tech fabric that resembles tights to a full-blown suit of armour?
Thoughts?
Edit: Because I didn't explain this as well as I could have, please see below...
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