How strong can D&D characters become when compared to super heroes?

School started again, so I had a lot of time to daydream today.

I assume listing the edition to be used would be rather important, so I decided to go with 3.0/3.5

D&D characters seem to have a lot in common with super heroes, especially when it comes to the beings they fight. Mad gods, ancient abominations, genocidal madmen, and more. Some characters can mimic the abilites of Green Lanterns, (energy constructs, force fields), some are combat machines, some can sling magic and psionics as easily as anyone in Marvel or DC does, barbarians are mini-Hulks, Monks can modify their blows to mimic cold iron and magic, rangers could rival Green Arrow and Hawkeye.......the list goes on.

I did a search on google for the question I listed as the title, but nothing came up. Maybe because super heroes are built using different rules. (The point system) It can be quite fun (and a bit time consuming) to create Marvel and DC superheroes with 3.5 rules, however.

Like I said, I came up with this in a daydream. But I really do wonder. When compared to DC or Marvel super heroes, how would D&D characters rank? Lower? Equal footing? Higher? (For those of us who have the Epic Level Handbook, we know that the right selction of Epic Feats lets characters rival the powers of deities. )

This isn't a question about powergamed builds, because I'd probably never use any of them in a real game. It will be quite interesting to hear about the selection of character classes, prestige classes, skills, powers, and feats that bring a D&D character to super hero levels, (though some probably are already.......a 20th level Monk who doesn't multiclass would probably make a solid B ranked superhero)

EDIT: I wasn't sure if I should have included the various magic items that characters can wield. So I just decided to go on the abilities that characters gain upon achieving higher levels)

One thing I do remember was a lvl 7 Wizard/Sorcerer/ultimate magus. It was pretty hardcore-super.

Also there was one build that takes the ranger(if elf) pet, the elven hound and makes it into crypto at lvl 5 which is equivalent of a full group by himself.

3.0 clerics could get pretty damn godlike by the teen levels.

Strength based characters could get pretty Hulk-like if they concentrated on boosting Strength. I remember finishing out a campaign around 18-19th level and having a strength score somewhere above 30.




-np

Any non casting class gets screwed in power comparison to a superhero--especially without a fighter's signature magic sword. All he'd be is a really good fighter, probably only with a singular specific weapon. Without the skill points to be good at anything but 2 things, probably only one since INT is a dump stat for Fighters.

Rogues might fare better, but without that full BAB, they're kind of SoL.

Compare to a Wizard, who by the mid teens is rewriting reality to fit his needs. Clerics, Druids, and Wizards dominate but anything with 20 caster levels destroys the challenges put before them. I've seen a wizard defeat the Tarrasque in one round with one spell. (Though more a fault of the Tarrasque monster design, but regardless)

If Superman (Or Captain Marvel, to ignore the magic weakness) and a 20th level wizard got into a fight, Superman better win Initiative, but it wouldn't matter, since the wizard would have time stop on Contingency...

Pun-Pun

The level 1 kobold with nigh infinite power.

The discussion is somewhat technical but it's all doable within the rules and without reliance on magic items.

Unfortunately you decided to pick 3.0/3.5 as the allowed rule set and have doomed us all.

I think that disallowing magic items is an unfair handicap, but I'm a 2nd Edition (and skimmed over the latest edition) kind of guy.

But that still leaves mages pretty viable, especially depending on thier level and exactly which superhero they faced.

Well, you know, characters can just take more classes after they hit level 30 or so (and have thus gotten the best epic feats for their class). So, with enough time, a character could easily overpower Silver Age Superman.

There's also mental and skill optimization. I've played a bard that, if I wanted to abuse the rules, could make ANYONE into her bestest buddy just by talking to them.

The DC of the test to see if it works? Normal DCs being in the 10-20 range, hard in the 30s, nigh-impossible in the 40s to 50s? Doesn't matter. If I don't roll a 1 on the die, I make it. This was at only 14th level.

Diplomancers could be ridiculously broken in 3rd edition.

And on top of that the character in question was, like the previously mentioned character, an advanced arcane caster with full access to all bard, sorcerer, and war-mage spells, and some cleric spells.

I had a D20 Star Wars character that by level 11 still had a Base Attack Bonus of 1, but was a strong enough Force user that he could probably pull a Star Destroyer out of orbit. While standing on the planet surface. Plus he was only 3 feet tall, resembled a humanoid marmot, and was cute as a button.

Funny, though. The D20 superhero rules (part of the D20 Modern rulebooks) really kinda sucked.



-np

Even mid-level magic or psionics would be devasting to Earth Heroes who have no defense against it.

But as soon as you have someone who is high enough to do either a Wish, Miracle, or Reality Revision the fight is over.

It gets worse with Epic level magic or psionics.



I would love to see Batman's plan for a Momento Mori.

D&D characters can vary in power immensely depending on what the GM allows.

Superheores can vary in power immensely depending on what the writer allows.

There is really no one definite way to answer that.

It all depends on the superhero.

Captain America or Batman probably about the power level of an extremely high level fighter/theif.

Spider-Man hits harder, faster and is more elusive than just about anything available in D&D, but many casters could probably outdo him at least once a day.

Doctor Strange or Doctor Fate are probably equivalent to epic-level D&D casters.

Then you have characters like Thor, Silver Surfer and Superman who are literally the equivalent of gods.

Wonder Woman would pwn all.

I get the impression that Dungeons and Dragons changed a LOT since Advanced came out and revolutionized it...


(damn I'm old!)

3.0/3.5 is broken.

Our Gm once ran a game and decided he didn't want anyone to use any book outside of the the three core books, PHB, DMG and MM to create a character since he felt allowing any other book would allow for a broken character.

I took that as a challenge!

I created a rogue/ranger/shadow dancer/horizon walker character with stealth levels so high that it was impossible to roll high enough to see him. There was simply not enough bonuses in the game even using feats to get a high enough spot.

The Gm did point out that stealth didn't equal invisibility to which I replied...
It will next level when I get HiPS!