How strong can D&D characters become when compared to super heroes?
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-08-23 15:41 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
This gets even crazier with some higher level spells such as Comet Fall which literally chucks a 20ft Diameter comet at you. or even more insane Meteor Swarm which is 4 20ft Diameter blasts.
Quote:
It seems cool but it has serious flaws too. |
Originally Posted by DMystic
Absurd tricks aren't limited to 3.5 either.
A Two Weapon Ranger in 4E can actually have an infinite combo at level 21(granted this is epic level but an infinite is an infinite) Starting with Twin Strike a Ranger at Will that lets you make 2 Attacks one Main hand and one off hand. In Paragon Tier we add the Feat Heavy Blade Opportunity which lets you use an at will attack in place of a normal attack when taking an Opportunity Action. Now in Epic Tier we take the Feat Two Weapon Flurry Which allows you to make an off hand attack whenever you successfully hit with your main hand during an opportunity action with a -5 penalty. With these feats I use Twin Strike(main hand twin) for an opp attack, if the main hand hits Flurry lets me make an off hand attack that can also be Twin Strike(off hand Twin). If the main hand attack of my off hand twin hits I can make another off hand twin which will set up more main hand attacks which in turn lead to more off hand twins. As a result of this the target is dead unless I miss. |
Primarily, there is no realistic reason any enemy that matters will ever need to provoke an opportunity attack from an epic level ranger.
Secondarily, this isn't 3.5. The way defenses scale with level, -5 to hit is not negligible. You will miss with that penalty a not inconsiderable percentage of the time.
Finally, two blade rangers have a hard time on the front lines. You need to have a serious investment in Strength, Dex, Con, and Wis to be viable, and there just arent that many points in the pot. If you're close enough to make an opportunity attack, you have a serious survivability concern.
Still, if you ever pull it off it would be pretty cool.
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
My only real experience with DnD is through computer games. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc. I couldn't ever really get into playing with other people.
One of the best Characters I made in NWN2 was a Bard1/Fighter16/Paladin3/Red Dragon Disciple 10. I could have taken Sorcerer instead, but Bard's get way more skill points their first level. As such, I had to play his alignment around so that I could fit in Paladin for the immunities they would get.
He wound up with 22STR/25DEX/400ish HP, with his saves all being above 22, with Fortitude at 25. His AC was around 31+ thanks to Tumble, Class Feats, Dual Weapon Fighting feats, and stupidly high Dexterity.
His BAB was around 26 before weapons. He had Epic Weapon Specialization/Focus in Scythes, and Monkey Grip so that he could hold a two handed weapon in one hand, and Perfect Two Weapon fighting so that his offhand was only sporting a -2 BAB from it being a large weapon. He had increased Critical Hit Modifiers and Threat ranges so that the Scythes just obliterated everything in his path. Something like x8/16-20 with a Keen weapon, I can't remember. He also had Blind-Fight from Dragon Disciple, in case he missed somehow.
He was immune to Charm, Fear, Paralysis, Sleep, and Fire Damage, though with relatively high saves it didn't really matter.
He took Able Learner, which effectively meant that all Cross-Class skills were main skills. Since he took bard, that meant more or less everything. He was able to keep Diplomacy, Use Magic Device, Spell Craft, and Tumble every level, with Listen and Lore also winding up fairly high. With maxed out UMD and the Bard Class, he was capable of using every scroll and equipping every item he found, including Monk Robes, which allowed him to take his already absurd AC to even higher levels.
All of this was before equipment.
He wound up as this untouchable, undebuffable, unstoppable killing machine. You couldn't even sneak up on him because of how high is listen skill was, and fights lasted all of a few seconds due to the absurdity that Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting+Monkey Grip+Scythe offers.
I have no doubt that he could have obliterated the crap out of a few Super Heroes.
He, there were some ridiculous builds in NWN. My favourite was the Druid/Shifter/Monk. I can't remember the exact level distribution, but you took druid high enough to get Shifter, Shifter high enough to get Dragon form, then the rest in monk IIRC. Basically, look at the list of Monk abilities Nightphall posted earlier, then imagine that it's not just some weedy little human with them, but a dragon 
Sadly, as far as I'm aware, this wouldn't work in PnP. 
D@D characters ARE superheroes by late levels. It's not every day you see a ranger with a god-blessed bow and armor made by kings, for kings, if you know what I mean. They are pretty much natural and magic heroes to the extreme in many cases.
Yes, "Super" heroes are often visualized as people with near limitless potential and power to many, like Superman (from DC Comics) and Jean Gray (from marvel), while D@D characters have a specific limit to how OP they can actually become. But still they can do a lot that normal heroes can deal. Need to dethrone an emperor? NP, you can do that, just like any super-powered guy can, it's just going to be slightly more epic because you can't make a sinkhole under the castle in 5 seconds...
When it comes to stuff like that however, it's mostly how imaginative you are with what you have. A noob with an axe can cut a rope, making a very heavy chandelier fall onto a group of 5 guards, while the experienced psychic is busy mind blasting 1 guy.
P.S. Ya, I did not bother reading any of the other posts, so if you are still looking for an answer, here's my 2 cents.
There's 4 kinds of smarts. Street smarts, brain smarts, survival smarts, profession smarts, and Me.
Quote:
I can?|
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter_III
Need to dethrone an emperor? NP, you can do that, just like any super-powered guy can, it's just going to be slightly more epic because you can't make a sinkhole under the castle in 5 seconds...
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BRB, got something I gotta do.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
Pffft sinkhole....
Druid casts Transmute Rock to Lava
I have, playing a druid, actually collapsed an castle into a sinkhole.
It was an oversized Fire Giant castle too.
Being able to transform yourself into a Delver and then eat away all the foundations helps.
-np
I see myself as witty, urbane, highly talented, hugely successful with a keen sense of style. Plus of course my own special brand of modesty.
Virtue: Automatic Lenin | The Pink Guy | Superpowered | Guardia | Guardia Prime | Ultrapowered
-_-
I never played D@D, just have a somewhat basic understanding of it. Not much for the sorcerers and wizards anyhow, so whatever I do know about it, it's not directed towards the magic.
I did however play a Marvel RPG... Not a D20 system but fun none the less. Not to much character development either... Best guy was a mutant who controlled all the elements and often combined them into a tornado of the sorts. (Ya, it's OP, but hey... I was stuck fighting people who control my powers, making me half worthless.)
Anyway... I stand by what I said about natural heroes in D@D, unless you know a lvl 20 Berzerker that swings a hammer that causes magnitude 10 earthquakes.
There's 4 kinds of smarts. Street smarts, brain smarts, survival smarts, profession smarts, and Me.
Quote:
I gotta bring out the inner D&D nerd in me for this.|
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter_III
Anyway... I stand by what I said about natural heroes in D@D, unless you know a lvl 20 Berzerker that swings a hammer that causes magnitude 10 earthquakes. |
Since a level 20 berzerker is a prestige class (found in Deities and Demigods), it's a pretty high chance that he can cause more than magnitude 10 quakes, since you can only exceed the 10th level of a prestige class when your total class number exceeds 20.
And since a prestige class becomes epic at level 11, the main class and/or prestige classes of characters might be much higher if you ever encounter a level 20 berzerker.
Let's just say the character is level 60: Barbarian (20 levels), Berzerker (20 levels), Tempest (20 levels)
I'd total up the stats if it weren't so time consuming, and my daughter didn't grab my pencil whenever I try to generate a character.
Magnitude 10 quakes for such a character? Quite possible......perhaps even easy.
Now that I think about it, I've heard about the sheer awesome combination that is Barbarian/Fighter/Frenzied Berzerker. There was one that was reduced to negative hit points, but due to the correct selection of skills, feats, and abilities gained from the three classes, the character was able to continue fighting long after she (I think it was a she), should have dropped dead.
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
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Keep in mind that for a character like this, Reflex is likely to be the best saving throw, and a Monk in specific is a class noted as having among the best Saves in the game. Most blasts are fairly low DC anyway, but even against an astronimical difficulty, a 20 always avoids any damage for the Evasion sporting character. That's a flat 5% chance of being completely unharmed by a city leveling blast dropped at point blank range.
Lets see Spider Man do that.
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!