Saying 'The Will will conquer all' and stuff is all well and good. But sometimes it's unbelievably bloody hard.
There are genuine mental conditions that are really hard to combat. Depression is one of them.
But this guy is very clearly pushing his luck just to get money out of NCSoft. Any idiot can see that, and I hope the Judge and Jury laugh him out of court in due time, as it should be.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Now we're getting somewhere! Just because you can fight it doesn't mean it's always easy! But the point is that you'll never truly get better until you step up, look your problems right in the eye, and tell them to get lost!
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Saying 'The Will will conquer all' and stuff is all well and good. But sometimes it's unbelievably bloody hard.
There are genuine mental conditions that are really hard to combat. Depression is one of them. |
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Once again, whether or not the "victim" has a mental issue is not the problem.
The issue is whether the problem lies in the game, or with the so-called victim.
My money's on "it's not the game's fault".
-np
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Well, yeah, duh, but that's an open-and-shut case, this is a far more interesting topic. I mean, just how many ways can you say, "The litigant is full of ****"?
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
Once again, whether or not the "victim" has a mental issue is not the problem.
The issue is whether the problem lies in the game, or with the so-called victim. My money's on "it's not the game's fault". -np |
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I actually want to hear a lawyer say "Your honor, I move that this case be dismissed."|
Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Well, yeah, duh, but that's an open-and-shut case, this is a far more interesting topic. I mean, just how many ways can you say, "The litigant is full of ****"?
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"On what grounds?"
"On the grounds that the litigant is full of ****, your honor."
"Case Dismissed. Litigant is indeed full of ****."
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He should be the defense lawyer.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
I actually want to hear a lawyer say "Your honor, I move that this case be dismissed."
"On what grounds?" "On the grounds that the litigant is full of ****, your honor." "Case Dismissed. Litigant is indeed full of ****." |
Well yes, he would be the defense lawyer.
Otherwise, it would be "Your honor, my client is utterly full of ****, I would like to recuse myself of this case and have my name stricken from the record so as not to be associated with this ****-tard anymore than I already have."
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*facepalm*|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Well yes, he would be the defense lawyer.
Otherwise, it would be "Your honor, my client is utterly full of ****, I would like to recuse myself of this case and have my name stricken from the record so as not to be associated with this ****-tard anymore than I already have." |
I meant you should be the defense lawyer.
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Stop leaking my plans for when I've conquered the world!|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
I actually want to hear a lawyer say "Your honor, I move that this case be dismissed."
"On what grounds?" "On the grounds that the litigant is full of ****, your honor." "Case Dismissed. Litigant is indeed full of ****." |
They're supposed to be a surprise! I'm gonna be all "MWAHAHAHA!" and they'll be all "ONOZ" and then I'll actually make everything more efficient and sensible and they'll be like "OMG WE WERE SO TROLLED" and I'd be all "Greatly Improved Leadershiproll'd!" and it would be totally sweet.
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Can I be your secretary of shut the hell up?|
Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Stop leaking my plans for when I've conquered the world!
They're supposed to be a surprise! I'm gonna be all "MWAHAHAHA!" and they'll be all "ONOZ" and then I'll actually make everything more efficient and sensible and they'll be like "OMG WE WERE SO TROLLED" and I'd be all "Greatly Improved Leadershiproll'd!" and it would be totally sweet. |
It seems like a job that would be vastly important in such a world.
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Certainly. Your first assignment is yourself.
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Originally Posted by OzzieArcane
Can I be your secretary of shut the hell up?
It seems like a job that would be vastly important in such a world. |
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"Here, Plaintiff alleges “[a]s a direct result of using
Lineage II and defendants’ acts and omissions, plaintiff has
suffered extreme and serious emotional distress and depression,
and has been unable to function independently in usual daily
activities such as getting up, getting dressed, bathing, or communicating with family and friends.”
...sounds like a stereotypical nerd....
Or more to the point, it sounds like the guy never grew up.
Do they have any way to prove he was like that *before* he was playing the game?
Eagles may soar, but Pigions don't get sucked into Jet engines.
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Actually, it's that phrase that kills him. "Direct result" implies some sort of mind-control rays or something.
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Originally Posted by ClayPigion
"Here, Plaintiff alleges [a]s a direct result of using
Lineage II and defendants acts and omissions, plaintiff has suffered extreme and serious emotional distress and depression, and has been unable to function independently in usual daily activities such as getting up, getting dressed, bathing, or communicating with family and friends. ...sounds like a stereotypical nerd.... Or more to the point, it sounds like the guy never grew up. Do they have any way to prove he was like that *before* he was playing the game? |
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[I]And don't you forget it.[/I]
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Of course people can change and/or overcome many hardships, but this usually takes a great deal of time, effort, pain, and misery. Also, there is no guarantee that someone won't wind up worse, and it is very probable that the person going through this effort will not be able to attain a level of efficiency before they became "addicted" to the activity in question. |
Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Now we're getting somewhere! Just because you can fight it doesn't mean it's always easy! But the point is that you'll never truly get better until you step up, look your problems right in the eye, and tell them to get lost!
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I think the problem here is whether or not the government should allow such an activity to continue (for example gambling) if it has a tendency to make people significantly "addicted" even if there is no actual physical chemical introduced into their body.
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Why should we pay for the frailties of others? They're not being coerced, they keep going because they want to. If they didn't want to, they'd stop. They might say they want to stop, but their actions betray their true minds.
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Originally Posted by Pyratheon
Of course people can change and/or overcome many hardships, but this usually takes a great deal of time, effort, pain, and misery. Also, there is no guarantee that someone won't wind up worse, and it is very probable that the person going through this effort will not be able to attain a level of efficiency before they became "addicted" to the activity in question.
I think the problem here is whether or not the government should allow such an activity to continue (for example gambling) if it has a tendency to make people significantly "addicted" even if there is no actual physical chemical introduced into their body. |
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No, people don't get addicted because they want to. They may decide to try gambling because they want to, but the addiction is out of their control. Once it sets in THEIR BODY AND BRAIN tells them they MUST DO IT and rewards them with pleasurable feelings for doing it and punishes them with withdrawal symptoms when they try to ignore it. At that point they may want to quit with all their might but their own physiology coerces them into it. The casino doesn't need to put a gun to their head to keep them coming back.
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Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Why should we pay for the frailties of others? They're not being coerced, they keep going because they want to. If they didn't want to, they'd stop. They might say they want to stop, but their actions betray their true minds.
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Dude. You clearly don't know what your talking about. Speaking as someone who's run into this sort of thing in actual real life, and rather close to home...just stop talking. Seriously.
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Originally Posted by Manofmanychars
Why should we pay for the frailties of others? They're not being coerced, they keep going because they want to. If they didn't want to, they'd stop. They might say they want to stop, but their actions betray their true minds.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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After reading over the case notes, I do agree that in this particular instance the lawsuit seems frivolous and that the guy is most likely just trying to get back at NCSoft for banning him for breaking the rules in the first place.
That being said, there have been other documented cases in recent years where people have died from spending to much time playing video games, or on the flip side of it, caused harm to others directly because of that addiction.
A few years back, a South Korean played Starcraft for 50 hours straight, and it ended up putting him into cardiac arrest which lead to his death. His body couldn't handle the strain.
Nor is his case an isolated one as tragic as it is, over the past few years there have been numerous deaths and hospitalizations as a result from addicted gamers not knowing when to stop.
Video games can and do cause addiction. Should video game designers be held responsible for the actions of the people who play their game? No, I don't think so, they do not choose who uses their products, and while they may target specific audiences no one is forcing anyone to buy their games.
That being said, should game designers and producers take more responsibility in how they produce and market their products to their audiences? Yes I think they should, and in many cases several developers have taken steps to combat addiction from the production end.
Saying that someone who is addicted can stop at any time however is a naive statement (and ironically also one of the signs of said addiction.) People who are addicted don't see the world the same way that regular people do.
They can't just put down what ever their addiction is...the thoughts are "oh just one more level can't hurt" or "just one more hour can't hurt" or "just one more injection can't hurt". It is frighteningly easy for someone to get caught up in that mentality. I'd be willing to wager that most anyone who has posted on these boards has been in that situation and so can relate.
The difference between most people, and people who become addicted is that those with addictive personalities don't know when to stop.
You can't stop something if you don't realize it's wrong in the first place, it doesn't matter how disciplined your mind is or how strong willed you are if you don't think a problem exists.
So in the end the responsibility for combating gaming addiction lays with the addicted person's peers and family. It's up to them to step in and stop it, or if they can't, then find someone who can.
Eagles may soar, but Pigions don't get sucked into Jet engines.
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Originally Posted by ClayPigion
Video games can and do cause addiction. Should video game designers be held responsible for the actions of the people who play their game? No, I don't think so, they do not choose who uses their products, and while they may target specific audiences no one is forcing anyone to buy their games.
That being said, should game designers and producers take more responsibility in how they produce and market their products to their audiences? Yes I think they should, and in many cases several developers have taken steps to combat addiction from the production end. Saying that someone who is addicted can stop at any time however is a naive statement (and ironically also one of the signs of said addiction.) People who are addicted don't see the world the same way that regular people do. |
i blame society for not entertaining us enough irl, but thats another discussion all together.
imo, its just like cigarettes. games are addictive on purpose, thats the whole business model of pay to play. unless a govt. entity steps in to force them into some kind of warning, there is no way any company is going to potentially lose sales because of a handful of people going overboard.
personally, if i saw a game with a picture of a person before and after starting an mmo i'd probably have never touched the genre. generally, we are in the worst physical shape of all gaming demographics.
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Considering that people get addicted to everything, including stuff like eating, sex and exercising, it's kinda hard to just criminalize all potentially addictive activities. I mean, I guess the US could criminalize sex and eating, I'm sure Canada and Mexico could do with the extra space that'll open up.
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Originally Posted by Pyratheon
I think the problem here is whether or not the government should allow such an activity to continue (for example gambling) if it has a tendency to make people significantly "addicted" even if there is no actual physical chemical introduced into their body.
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"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Speaking as someone who kicked a Cocaine habit, which definitely is a psychological addiction, I'd invite him to keep talking. He IS right, you know? You can say 'no further than this' and make a difference in your own ******* life. Some people simply lack the ability to suffer through a bout of hardship, even if the goal is to actually improve your quality of life in the long run. It's really that simple, provided you're a vertebrate.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Dude. You clearly don't know what your talking about. Speaking as someone who's run into this sort of thing in actual real life, and rather close to home...just stop talking. Seriously.
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"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Actually, a neurophysical response in a person with a mental addiction can produce a "high" through the release of adrenalin and endorphins. I'm not addicted to it, but a "gambler's high" is that rush you get when you have a good poker hand (for example). I'm an avid poker player and have learned to hide the physical response to this rush so I don't tip off other players, but trust me when I say your heartbeat really does pick up when dealt good cards.|
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
The point is, it's STILL not the 'addicting' game's fault. If anything, the most you could blame is the addicted person's physiology.
This isn't a physical addiction. So it's more or less the addicted person's brain having a malfunction. |
Please don't get me wrong here...it's still up to the individual to realize they have a problem and either man up and get rid of the cause of the addiction, or get help (psychiatric). In the case of gambling, most casinos post numbers to call if you have an addiction problem and are more than willing to bar you from entry if you request it.
Here's a wonderful tidbit from the actual lawsuit:
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In September 2009, Plaintiff discovered that he had been “locked out of the game, i.e., that defendants had ‘banned’ him from further play of the game.” Id. 23. Plaintiff alleges he received no warning that he was in danger of being banned or had been banned and that he was banned from all accounts belonging to his internet protocol (“IP”) address. Id. 24-25. Plaintiff alleges that he made numerous attempts to contact Defendants to determine why he was banned, but that “there was a maze of purposeful obstruction to receive any information on why he was locked out.” Id. 28-30. Plaintiff alleges that he pre-paid for access to his accounts and had approximately one-and-a-half months of access left at the time his accounts were banned. Id 31. Plaintiff alleges that “Defendants unlawfully retained plaintiff’s money on account [valued at $65], for playtime that was intentionally withheld and denied.” Id. 32-33. Plaintiff alleges that Defendants told him he was banned from the game for engaging in an elaborate scheme to create real money transfers. Id. 34. Plaintiff alleges that NCSOFT sent him an email to that effect on October 5, 2009, which Plaintiff attaches to the Second Amended Complaint. Id. 35-36. Plaintiff denies ever being involved in any scheme to make real money transfers or making any real money transfers. Id. 37-40. Plaintiff also asserts that there are Game Masters in Lineage II who are supposed to ensure fairness, but that the game rules were not enforced fair and square. Id. 51-52. Plaintiff alleges that Defendant conducted “banning purges,” which were “defendants’ concealed methods to promote Aion and increase their profits.” Id. 52. |
*head asplode*
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The thing is in how we see NC Soft deal with RMT spam and stuff in this game would show that they are normally very reluctant to ban accounts. So if they did so, IMO they must have had evidence to support the decision.
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Originally Posted by Defenestrator
Actually, a neurophysical response in a person with a mental addiction can produce a "high" through the release of adrenalin and endorphins. I'm not addicted to it, but a "gambler's high" is that rush you get when you have a good poker hand (for example). I'm an avid poker player and have learned to hide the physical response to this rush so I don't tip off other players, but trust me when I say your heartbeat really does pick up when dealt good cards.
Please don't get me wrong here...it's still up to the individual to realize they have a problem and either man up and get rid of the cause of the addiction, or get help (psychiatric). In the case of gambling, most casinos post numbers to call if you have an addiction problem and are more than willing to bar you from entry if you request it. Here's a wonderful tidbit from the actual lawsuit: So, the guy is suing because NCSoft didn't stop him from playing, but when they stopped him from playing he got mad and sued. *head asplode* |
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It's suing your dealer because he won't sell to you anymore, not that he got you addicted in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Defenestrator
So, the guy is suing because NCSoft didn't stop him from playing, but when they stopped him from playing he got mad and sued.
*head asplode* |
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I'm wondering how he got addicted. Korean MMOs are grindy.
Could it be a cover for his RMT?