((Meta)) Roleplaying, game-mechanics, and lore...

This grew out of a side thread in a "roleplaying pet peeves" discussion, but I think it's a viable topic in its own right.

How do you handle conflicts between story ideas or story lines and game mechanics or lore?

Examples:

* How would you feel about a character who wants to use the "Radiation" attack powers, but claim that they aren't radiation but actually some other kind of energy or force?
* If you really like the game mechanics for "Peacebringer", and none of the other ATs fit your character concept, is it reasonable or acceptable to declare that your "Peacebringer" is actually a non-Kheldian who just happens to use that power set?
* Similarly, can you have a character who uses the Night Widow rules, but is roleplayed as some other kind of martial artist, ninja, or whatever, and is not really a Soldier of Arachnos in character?

My general feeling has been: Insofar as I can make what I want to make while working within the rules and lore, I prefer to do so. However, I don't expect the rules to model everything, or describe everything, so if I have an idea that the rules don't support, I'll just say "yes, but this is actually..."

So, for instance, it is fine by me if someone says "this is a dragon who actually has claws which are part of her hands, not weapons strapped to her hands, even though they're drawn as being strapped on." Or if someone says "Jill and Ernest had sex" even though it's physically impossible to get within about six inches of another character, they just start being magically pushed away. I don't see it as a big deal, and if the game mechanics don't quite line up sometimes with the described character, well, so what? It's a video game, not a supercomputing particle simulator.

Where is this 'RP pet peeves' thread? Sounds like an interesting read. But honestly, all the examples you posted are perfectly fine and are even supported by the game. You can color radiation in a number of ways to get different effects, or a human form PB (or just a shape-shifter that happens to have the honorary title of Peacebringer) and I'd hazard to say Nightwidows *are* ninjas...they just wear funky helmets and have butt-capes. My werewolf brute uses his sharp nails as claws, and colored the claws 'bone' to give it a better look. In those regard, I think the devs are working really really hard to try and broaden the scope of concepts they can cover. They *want* you to make up stuff and be creative. It's part of why they keep asking the community for input.

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Or if someone says "Jill and Ernest had sex" even though it's physically impossible to get within about six inches of another character, they just start being magically pushed away. I don't see it as a big deal

Whoa...where'd that come from?

But you can just RP that...well...the guy has more than a 6 inch reach...

That said, I'd actually want to know what people find is 'crossing the line' in terms of RPing and the in-game mechanics? Or just what bugs you?

Me? Well, besides flubbing up established lore for your own purposes, I think the only thing that I feel is 'crossing the line' is when people stick to the mechanics of the game ironclad. In game? There's some flexibility but you have to try and work with the game to make things successfully believable...but outside of the game rules and mechanics, I feel those things are simply a guideline, not the bible. Basic example: blasting a robot with an energy blast and an electric blast. In-game, the energy blast will do more damage because it does smashing damage and energy damage which are both robot weaknesses...but in reality, the electric blast should do more simply because it's attacking the thing externally and internally at the same time.

It's over in the Virtue server forum.

The sex example was a response to a poster arguing that you must accept ALL of the game mechanics and lore, untouched, unchanged, or you aren't roleplaying at all. Since the character creation stuff says a "Peacebringer" is a human merged with a Kheldian symbiont, then that is what all Peacebringers are, and to declare that a Peacebringer is something else is to disregard the game's lore entirely.

I am... unconvinced. I offered the lack of actual physical contact between players as an example of how this "game mechanics are the entire truth of the world" model falls down. (Well. Actually, it does explain why there's no kids.)

With regards to Kheldians, if you're going to use that AT to represent something else entirely, you better make sure everyone around you KNOWS that, or people will just presume you're a Kheldian.

IMO, probably not worth the aggravation as there's always some nurk who doesn't read BIO descriptions or refuses to accept OOC remarks explaining the difference. TBH, I'd use one of the other AT's for the purpose; probably an en/en blaster.

As for "crossing the line", I think people should be allowed to RP anything they want, BUT, some things should never be RPd in a public place.

I try to look at the game mechanics and lore as the foundation on which to base a character, if you twist it too much you end up with a unstable character, which often means you end up spending your evening explain what your character is rather than playing them.

The Peacebringer AT is a good example, I have seen a number of people use it as the powersets for a non- kheldian toons, and until its established and has met all the other players toons there is a constant level of needed OOC to keep the IC setting going ..it’s a choice between effort and reward. Describing a powerset in terms of your character is a large chunk of what RP is about, very few Willpower set users I have met say their character has “ super strong willpower “ to limit one’s self to that level of game mechanic is just silly .

As with all RPing in MMOs there are huge lumps of RP background to fill in, where you live, what Car you drive, fav food/ films/music/ cloths , wealth and RL skills..none of which the game defines for you , you have to make it all up. Then , with CoX you come to the powers and the bits they miss out of the game.. common examples like walking through walls, how much a superstrenghter can in fact lift, psi powers above and beyond power set effects , super senses, hyper intelligence, space travel.

To say you can’t have any of those because there is no game mechanic seems to totally miss the point of RP .. as long as you fellow RP can understand what you are trying to achieve where is the problem.

Not everyone likes the same sort of RP, but if your clear as to what your RPing they can choose to join in or walk way.

I'll accept that game mechanics can be ignored as long as a convincing face is put on it. Hence why I have issues with Kheldians and Arachnos ATs being anything but - it's a little difficult to take the "but but no" reasoning seriously when you're using their powers and wearing their uniforms, in and out of combat.

Seems like people are falling foul of the OOC/IC divide. Sure you might assume they're Kheldians when they use light blasts, but I don't think Kheldians really have a monopoly on those.

I don't mind it. It's pretty much metagaming to say they're X purely because they have a certain mark above thier head. Though admitably I find Kheldian lore downright dull, so any attempt to ignore it is fine by me.

Power Customization would make it a lot easier to swallow for Kheldians though, while Bane's are just going to have to live with the fact they've got Arachnos kit strapped to thier back and Kheldian forms are pretty much Kheldian forms. There's no real disguising what they are. Fortunata's make great Psychics though!

I have np roleplaying power diverensation but it has to look at least a bit like it. Energy blasts can be water... radiation can be any energy

A Kheld blasts can be non Kheld... but if the same person says he is not a Kheld but then shapeshifts to resemble one.. :S If you are not a Kheld you should try and make human only work.

A widow not being Arachnos but any psy/soldier/ninja etc. ... np... Just don't rp during the part where you are forced to the look. Or it is a bit hard to look past it.

In the words of the wise one (that's me, on and off - see sig): Play what you want to play, rationalise what you have to rationalise.

It would be ridiculous of me, for example, to claim that one of my toons (the rarely played Maera) is a Kheldian, despite the fact that she has the Peacebringer AT. I just took that so that she could fly from L1 and I wouldn't have to level her up to 14. Roll on my 60 month vet reward, then I'll remake her properly and take fly at L6.

Really, the shared story that is RP in CoH requires give and take from everyone. You don't have to fix yourself within the confines of the game and its mechanics (if you did, strictly speaking no character would be more than 6 years old, for example), but neither should you assume that your character knows things about other characters without some obvious sign (i.e. you read the Bio) or actual RP'd interaction.

Which brings us onto a whole realm of other stuff called "flange" - stuff that the game doesn't represent, but that you might choose your character to have as an ability. Many characters have flange-senses, flange-powers, flange-body-parts. While it would be pointless to assume that everyone reads your character's bio to learn these things, it can be a good habit to get into if your character has them - that way you can direct questions OOC to the player, if needed.

As far as the "Jill and Ernest" thing is concerned... the limitations of animation within the game (which are specifically set the way they are, with the character box the size it is, for good reason) mean that as roleplayers we sometimes have to apply liberal amounts of fudge. According to the strict letter of the game-mechanics, no two characters can have any physical contact, unless you use some emote trickery. Far easier for consenting persons to just say "Richard hugs so-and-so" and have it accepted by everyone that something which does not appear on-screen has happened. The one rule I would suggest that everyone try to follow is that "adult" situations should be either a) dealt with off-screen, or b) dealt with in private, whether through /tells, finding a remote location that no other players are likely to go to, hiding away inside a supergroup base, whatever, but such things should NOT be described on a public channel in a place where people who are not involved are likely to accidentally stumble across it. If, for example, I found a couple of people RPing something adult on Local chat in a yellow-line station, Wentworths, Pocket D, City Hall or somewhere equally frequented, I'd be sending petitions. If, on the other hand, they were in a quiet corner of Eden, well away from any badge locations, I'd just quietly turn around and leave them in peace.

...I'm quite clearly talking about people who use the iconic AT powers and expect to be taken as something else, Fanservice.

And I'm not? I'm just saying if you want to play a Kheldian as something else, you want to make it Human Form exclusive to make it work as yes, the Alien Forms are clearly Kheldian and no, you're not going to convice people otherwise.

Much like how if you want to do it for VEAT's without any ties to Arachnos, don't wear the armour and don't play a Bane! Fortunata's make great team psychics and I'm sure night Widows would make a great spec ops character.

There's different degrees, people shouldn't be told thier Human Form Kheldian played as something different doesn't work because of the Alien forms thier character doesn't use but does have somewhere in thier power list. If they never show them off and say the character doesn't having them, then going on to insist they do because they're a Kheldian is outright warped reasoning.

My pet peeves are mostly really petty.

Stuff like the Rad/energy divide since it is non existent, if you emitting radiant energy it still radiant energy what ever frequency it's at.

Particle emissions, now that's something else.

So in the end none of these fudges annoy me because they are trying to work with crappy game mechanics, as long as they aren't a total ****** about it, it's not really that bad.

Personally, I think this is one of those debates that comes down to anything being acceptable within reason. If someone wants to play the Peacebringer AT without their toon actually being one for RP purposes then I have no problem with that so long as they don't start claiming things that are so against the established lore that it breaks my immersion.

I favour using the basic mechanics as a starting point, and then going from there, but certainly not sticking to them at all costs. Generally I have no problems with deviations from the lore side of things either.

As an example, I play my Peacebringer as having two distinct and separate personalities; the human host, and the kheldian symbiote. I know that goes against what has been stated as cannon for a merged pair, but personally I preferred the idea of the Stargate Tok'Ra approach than the totally new personality. Admittedly she's a new RP toon for me, and I'm still working a lot out, but it seems to be going well so far and I've not had anyone who objects outright to my take on the character. I certainly hope it stays that way, because I don't want to play a version that is exactly asthe cannon lore states.

So all in all, my rather convoluted thought process is basically that almost anything goes and that really so long as no one starts insisting that "you have a name floating above your head and that being 'x' AT means that 'blah'", then it's all in good fun.

Speaking personally: I have a Warshade-who-is-not-a-Warshade, with the form powers.

She's a psychopomp for deep-ocean creatures. She channels the souls of squid and lobsters.

Naturally, I tend to fall on the side of "twist the mechanics to meet the concept". But, more importantly, if people refuse to acknowledge the way I want to play a character, I don't worry about it: I just don't play with them. There are plenty of people who will play with me, and if some won't, well, that's on them. Nobody is the boss of all RP, much though some may try to act as if they are.