Which AT for Massive AoE Damage AND Massive Def?
By
Atago,
Posted on: 2010-08-13 09:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
massive aoe damage and massive defense?
spines / super reflexes scrapper
spines / shield scrapper
That's about it.
No "Range" archtype is going to give you meaningful Defense Debuff Resistance. What that means is that all it's going to take is one -def attack, and you won't have any defense. So if you want to dish out the aoe damage and shrug off the attacks, start looking at the scrappers.
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Bots/traps.
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Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
What is the best character and build to rip through huge groups of +2 or +3 baddies and AVs solo, with no chance of face plants?
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I thought spines and shield didn't work together.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
massive aoe damage and massive defense?
spines / super reflexes scrapper spines / shield scrapper That's about it. No "Range" archtype is going to give you meaningful Defense Debuff Resistance. What that means is that all it's going to take is one -def attack, and you won't have any defense. So if you want to dish out the aoe damage and shrug off the attacks, start looking at the scrappers. |
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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Came here to post this.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Bots/traps.
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I returned here to back you up after I already left.
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Originally Posted by Emberly
Came here to post this.
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The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
You're not going to have any appreciable defence with a fire/kin until you start slotting for sets--which is something that you usually do late in a char's career.
Really for someone who admits to immediately retiring chars the moment they hit 50, I would suggest something that deals AoE and have good defences straight out of the box. Melee ATs and MMs in other words, and to a lesser extent crab spiders.
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*Ahem*|
Originally Posted by je_saist
So if you want to dish out the aoe damage and shrug off the attacks, start looking at the scrappers.
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Bots/Traps
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I came back here after leaving from coming back after leaving to back up this statement. Again.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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Yeah, but I had links and anecdotal evidence.
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Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
I came back here after leaving from coming back after leaving to back up this statement. Again.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I'm just here to give props and throw in my .02 on corroborating your viewpoint. Not troll. I just found Emberly's comment humorous and couldn't let go of it. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Yeah, but I had links and anecdotal evidence.
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The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you were trolling in any way.|
Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
I'm just here to give props and throw in my .02 on corroborating your viewpoint. Not troll. I just found Emberly's comment humorous and couldn't let go of it.
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It was more of a prod for more anecdotal evidence, as I find epic tales of Mastermind glory to be entertaining.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Exaggerate much?|
Originally Posted by je_saist
massive aoe damage and massive defense?
spines / super reflexes scrapper spines / shield scrapper That's about it. No "Range" archtype is going to give you meaningful Defense Debuff Resistance. What that means is that all it's going to take is one -def attack, and you won't have any defense. So if you want to dish out the aoe damage and shrug off the attacks, start looking at the scrappers. |
Lots of defense makes a difference. Not every enemy group comes packing -DEF. And some of those who do, don't use it enough to make it that big of a threat.
[EDIT] And by the way, my Dark/ Defenders have all done great against the -Def of the Cims, so I wouldn't say no "RANGE" AT.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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yeah srsly. Defense debuff is brutal (since usually when one guy in a mob is doing it, mult. guys are) but I dont have any debuff resistance on my stormy and I rarely see situations a small purp wont fix. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Exaggerate much?
Lots of defense makes a difference. Not every enemy group comes packing -DEF. And some of those who do, don't use it enough to make it that big of a threat. [EDIT] And by the way, my Dark/ Defenders have all done great against the -Def of the Cims, so I wouldn't say no "RANGE" AT. |
For the OP. since you do not play your 50's, Im gonna suggest something that gets its main aoe at the ripe age of lvl 6; claws.
For the "money is no object" suggestion, Ide say rad/ or fire/ and /mental, /fire, or /elec blaster. The builds can be ruthlessly tight (gl with softcapping the fire/ toon, its really hard) and a bit funky, but full of AoE from the get go.
Another fun toon would be a veat. They have heavy defensive secondaries, nice team buffs, and plenty of AoE. You cant go wrong, fort, crab, nw, bane.
Wow. Thanks for all the ideas. Another thing I should mention I that I am not a huge fan of setting up stuff ahead of time - that is, not the way you seems to have to with /traps. I more like to move with the flow.
I had a Fire/Mental, it was fun - although it didn't feel like I was at the rageariffic build I was looking for.
I had a Bots/FF, that too seemed useful. However, I was looking more for a character where it feels like *I* am pounding on the baddies. (I also had a Fire/Kin controller - like everyone else - which was fun for a while.)
I guess it comes down to this: The most direct kick-*** ATs I can imagine from my years of playing have been Blasters, Corruptors, Brutes, and Scrappers. Are here any of those that can just rip through radio/paper missions lit a hot knife through warm butter, when the mission is spawned for +2 to +3 levels and for 4 or more teammates, even though I may be soloing? Ideally, I would love to see this happening in the 30s at least, so I can ride the tankmage train to 50.
Or is my Fire/Mental that I already did as close as you can come to that?
Some other thoughts. What about:
-A SS/SR Brute? (Or does the SR and not getting hit kill Fury too much?)
-A SS/Something Else brute?
-Any Scrappers? I could take a something/SR Scrapper, but looking over the Scrapper Primaries, it seems that even the AoEs are very short ange, under 20'.
-Fire/Something Blaster - IF I can get a ton of Def going so that I can rarely be hit - but you guys are making that sound less likely. On the other hand, I tend to fight mostly council radios now that we can recycle through the mishes fast.
-Fire/Kin Corruptor - IF the lack of BuildUp doesn't render a Fire/Something Blaster preferrable. Plus Blasters do more damage. On the other hand, Scourge can help finish off baddies that are close. Plus, /Kin give great options - heals, end, speed, etc. IS Fulcrum Shift worth giving up BuildUp for?
Or, quite possibly, perhaps what I want to build isn't possible - at least not under the four ATs I am really ocussed on now (Blaster, Corruptor, Brute, Scrapper.)
Further thoughts?
For Great Justice!
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Setting stuff up ahead of time is often a sign of a bad traps player. It's a great set for running in and ruining people's day on the fly. Seeker drones take the alpha, you throw out electric fences for a -KB AoE immob, then hop in and throw down a PGT and/or a tripmine, or maybe squat down and drop acid mortar. Throw out some procced-up caltrops, web grenade the odd runner, let your mechanical pals clean house. Chances are the spawn is long wiped before you get a chance to use all your tricks, which means the next spawn gets whatever you didn't use this time. My bats/tarps stops for nothing and slows only to avoid hurt feelings when I accidentally join a team with him.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Wow. Thanks for all the ideas. Another thing I should mention I that I am not a huge fan of setting up stuff ahead of time - that is, not the way you seems to have to with /traps. I more like to move with the flow.
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Of course if MMs aren't your thing then bots/traps won't be either. I can relate to the desire to beat them up yourself; for that I suggest a claws/WP brute or a claw/SR brute. Both are great.
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As you seem to have a ton of inf to spend, I think I should suggest creating The MFing Warshade.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Further thoughts?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
At its height, The MFing Warshade will have 300% damage bonus, 85% resist all, well over 50% tohit bonus, three damage dealing pets in tow, a ranged AoE attack chain, and the ability to refill both bars more often than I blink. It can also perma stun ten targets, perma hold one, and even stun bosses in a single shot. It has mez protection with an 80% hitpoints bonus on demand. It can even shrug off defeat twice every five minutes.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I just saw some builds for Scrapper Fire/Shield that are purported to be highly effective - softcapped at 45% def, lots of damage, etc.
Anyone familiar with Fire/SD Scrappers that can chime in? One thing I read said that he was even handling +2/8-man solo missions! Realistic?
For Great Justice!
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Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
I thought spines and shield didn't work together.
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They don't.
Also, I second the WS vote.
The WS seems more complicated to play than the other choices. I was never a fan of the form swapping.
For Great Justice!
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Wasn't sure.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you were trolling in any way.
It was more of a prod for more anecdotal evidence, as I find epic tales of Mastermind glory to be entertaining. |
Anyway I've seen a petless bots/Traps in action.
Sit down kids, let me tell you the tale of Professor Freak.
Professor Freak was a man who sold out his enormously flawed superscience to the villain world at large. Always thinking grandly and delivering poorly, Professor Freak was loved and reviled, depending on whether you were on the bystander side or receiving side of his genius, respectively.
In 50 levels of my teamings with this NoBots/Traps, I was surprised to find that he still was as valuable to the team as ever, even if his only sources of damage seemed to come from pulse rifle blasts that could barely melt butter and seeker drones that actually managed not to slice their own master's head off in carnal lust for blood.
One time, I saw what the fuss was all about, and it was a doozy. The sun, if you could call it that, was dimly lighting the obscured sky of the ruins of Atlas Park in some dismal, grisly future where Lord Recluse finally had hiked up his gonads, roflstomped Statesman, and proceeded to crap all over his kingdom by letting it calmly burn to ash around him. Content that he was secure in his Fortress of Burning Lolwut, Professor Freak merrily hopped, skipped, tripped occasionally, and finally stumbled across the landscape unnoticed within Recluse's shadow.
We engaged Lord Recluse in all manner of attack that some would call downright uncivilized. Professor Freak spent most of his time tickling the Spider with his guns, until finally Recluse turned and looked at him angrily - only to be shot in the face ten times with an acid mortar that was loaded to the gills with Damage Procs, and a couple of seeker drones buzzing at him like angry metal bees. Oh, how the Spider hated the bees!
Knowing he could not go it alone, or even with my assistance, Professor Freak calmly asked a few friends to assist in the beatdown.
What I saw next was something that blew my mind. The team descended, and in pitched battle the Spider taunted them all with his army of Banes and his sliver of insurmountable health. Then, from the heavens above, descended a single Assault Bot. The label above its head was emblazoned in green with the moniker "My Life's Work" and it promptly landed, shouted an error code and made the bootup noise from an OS9 PowerPC, then exploded, killing the Spider. Sparks flew from Professor Freak as the Super-Villain Advisory Board granted him clearance to level 50. My jaw hit the floor for critical damage. This little turd of a character violated his idiotic noPet rule for an equally idiotic chance at glory with a marginally idiotic use of Detonator. I then imagined what he could have done if weren't an idiot.
Never in my years had I ever seen something so amazing, until 3 weeks later when an Ill/FF named Subconscious scored the final blow to Lord Recluse, at the feet of Grandville City Hall, with a baseball bat after we took down his WEB device.
That's the story.
I know all too well the power of Bots/Traps in reality, but to say that even WITHOUT pets, you are super useful, is something else. Also Professor Freak is very real, he's a good friend of mine, and he's far from an idiot. But that moment blew my mindhole wide open.
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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Why haven't je_saist's post priviledges been revoked already? all he does is spread misinformation and grief people who actually need help.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
massive aoe damage and massive defense?
spines / super reflexes scrapper spines / shield scrapper That's about it. |
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A tooled up fm/sd scrapper can easily do +2/8, and with a little slowdown, +4/8.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
I just saw some builds for Scrapper Fire/Shield that are purported to be highly effective - softcapped at 45% def, lots of damage, etc.
Anyone familiar with Fire/SD Scrappers that can chime in? One thing I read said that he was even handling +2/8-man solo missions! Realistic? |
My vote would be a claws/inv scrapper, or if you REALLY want to throw down, a spines/inv. On my claw/inv I run +2/8 routinely, and a friend has a spine/inv that does +4/8 with no issues.
Neither build is cheap, either is a true sight to behold.
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I wonder the same thing.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
Why haven't je_saist's post priviledges been revoked already? all he does is spread misinformation and grief people who actually need help.
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This is without using purples IOs?
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Originally Posted by mauk2
A tooled up fm/sd scrapper can easily do +2/8, and with a little slowdown, +4/8.
My vote would be a claws/inv scrapper, or if you REALLY want to throw down, a spines/inv. On my claw/inv I run +2/8 routinely, and a friend has a spine/inv that does +4/8 with no issues. Neither build is cheap, either is a true sight to behold. |
For Great Justice!
Before I begin, I should note some of my play habits:
-Only PvE
-I *immediately* retire characters at 50 - the game for me is to play the journey from 1 to 50, o that is the goal or this new char as well
-therefor I never use purples
-have been in the game since launch, i have all the vet awards - nice for respeccing and travel powers at 6
-My first goal with any character: not to die. second goal: kill/arrest everyone else
-Especially with GR coming out, I am looking at ATs on both sides
-I have over 20 level 50s
-I have billions upon billions of inf stored up, so pricey IOs are no problem
I had an idea, does this sound do-able?
A Fire/Kin Corruptor, focused on Def, so that solo, he can jump into the middle of a large group, hit Fulcrum Shift, and Start blasting the hell out of the baddies? He can use SiphonSpeed to boost his recharges (and possibly Hasten), Transference to regain End (especially after a nuke -pop blue, hit Transference), and Transfusion to pop the occasional heal for when an attack gets through his defense. Probably add in Weave and Tough, Hasten, Acrobatics?
To put this question another way, if I want to solo a mission filled with baddies, spawned for a team of 4-8, would this be my best bet? What archetype/build is the highest AoE damaging character that can solo this groups effectively?
I mean, would I be better off going with a Blaster, giving up Fulcrum Shift and the self heal and other tricks, but gaining BuildUp? Or is a Scrapper or Brute the best avenue to this idea? Which AT of the AoE Damage ones can reach the most PvE Defense? Or is there no point to going for high Def numbers on AoE Damage ATs if you are going to fight at +2 or +3?
Ultimately, I have noticed that when on a good team we are cranking through baddies at +2 or +3, and lots of them, and the XP is gushing in. I recently tried this idea out with my current character, an Illusion/Kin with crazy Recharge (usually over 200% global). Only problem with that character is that even with FS, I can't crank out the damage.
What is the best character and build to rip through huge groups of +2 or +3 baddies solo, with little chance of face plants?
Thanks.
For Great Justice!