Which AT for Massive AoE Damage AND Massive Def?
By
Atago,
Posted on: 2010-08-13 09:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Not to mention that you can pick Spin up at level 6, whereas other Scrapper PBAOEs tend to start from 18 onwards. Plus you tend to always have at least a 30% damage bonus on it thanks to Follow-Up, whereas other sets have a more "spiked" approach since they get Build Up.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
It's worth noting that Spin, the PBAoE in the Claws set, is the best melee PBAoE by a wide margin. Fire Sword Circle does a little more damage but recharges more than twice as long -- you can do 2 Spins and have time left over. And Spin is end-efficient.
Scrappers don't get Combustion, Fiery Melee's only other PBAoE. So /Fire Scrappers are basically just spamming Fire Sword Circle for most of their AoE, and they're always cited as having "fantastic" AoE. Since Spin is better, faster, and cheaper by itself...AND the set has other area attacks...it follows that Claws must be a better than fantastic area attack set. |
while it wouldn't have massive defense, a spines/fire scrapper should have the best AoE damage in the scrapper family. especially with the recent changes to FE and Burn. and if you have the money to throw at it, /fire can be made into a very sturdy build.
The first AT that comes to mind is Crab. You don't really need fancy sets and Crab gets very good team defense buff and very good aoe and you don't need to buff your teammates. Just put on the toggles and GO GO GO.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
pre-I4 my DM/INV was a beast for massive solo aoe grinding.
Nowadays I'd say spines/best aoe secondary.
Thats all solo...for group play I still love my Blasters
yvmv
rudd32
Hunterseeker 50 AR/DEV, Eire's Anger 50 MA/SR, Souls Seeker 40 DM/INV, Torn Foehammer 36 INV/SS, Elite Strike 31 BS/REG, Frequency Lost 24 Rad/Rad
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Honestly, the only thing you have to set up before hand with Bots/Traps is stacked trip mines and I don't think I've ever bothered doing that on mine. With decent IO investment (and not even a multi-billion inf build) you'll be softcapped to Ranged and possibly AoE damage and in the mid to high 30s for Melee... that's plenty of defense to just run in, let the bots start doing their thing, and drop a Poison Trap and Acid Mortar right at the feet of the biggest clump of enemies you can find. Or don't... once you hit 32 and get decent IOs you can mow down just about anything by just standing there running Force Field Generator to keep your bots softcapped, tossing Web Grenades on bosses to keep them in burn patches, and dropping an occasional Aid Other if a bot gets too hurt (Aid Other is way better than Repair). If you are running a pure SO build, you may need to use some other powers too if you want to solo AVs or 8-man spawns... but you actually can do that with no IOs whatsoever (people have soloed Giant Monsters with SO-only builds). Bots/Traps is just that good.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Wow. Thanks for all the ideas. Another thing I should mention I that I am not a huge fan of setting up stuff ahead of time - that is, not the way you seems to have to with /traps. I more like to move with the flow.
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Actually, if you want a real challenge for a high-end Bots/Traps IO build, don't bother soloing 8-man missions. Try soloing task forces.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
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SS/Fire Brutes have the best AoE damage now I'd say. They won't have the best defense, but dead things don't hurt you.
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I rank Footstomp above Spin. It has almost twice the radius of it, which makes a huge difference.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
It's worth noting that Spin, the PBAoE in the Claws set, is the best melee PBAoE by a wide margin.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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My BS/Shield does it. I'm sure Fire/Shield would be better.
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Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
I just saw some builds for Scrapper Fire/Shield that are purported to be highly effective - softcapped at 45% def, lots of damage, etc.
Anyone familiar with Fire/SD Scrappers that can chime in? One thing I read said that he was even handling +2/8-man solo missions! Realistic? |
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Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
The first AT that comes to mind is Crab. You don't really need fancy sets and Crab gets very good team defense buff and very good aoe and you don't need to buff your teammates. Just put on the toggles and GO GO GO.
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http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Channelgun
- (A) Achilles' Heel - Defense Debuff: Level 20
- (7) Achilles' Heel - Defense Debuff/Recharge: Level 20
- (7) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance: Level 30
- (3) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
- (3) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection: Level 30
- (A) Karma - Defense/Endurance: Level 30
- (5) Karma - Defense/Recharge: Level 30
- (5) Karma - Knockback Protection: Level 30
- (A) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff: Level 30
- (9) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Defense Debuff: Level 30
- (9) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
- (19) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage: Level 30
- (40) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (40) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (A) Flight Speed IO: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 53
- (11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 53
- (13) Luck of the Gambler - Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (29) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 53
- (34) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 53
- (A) Kismet - Defense/Endurance: Level 30
- (11) Kismet - Defense/Recharge: Level 30
- (13) Kismet - Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (19) Kismet - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (27) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30
- (27) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
- (A) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff: Level 30
- (17) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Defense Debuff: Level 30
- (17) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
- (39) Shield Breaker - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (39) Shield Breaker - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (40) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage: Level 30
- (A) Healing IO: Level 50
- (15) Healing IO: Level 50
- (15) Healing IO: Level 50
- (A) Soaring - FlySpeed: Level 53
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 53
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 53
- (21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (23) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 53
- (23) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 53
- (31) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 53
- (31) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 53
- (31) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 53
- (33) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 53
- (A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 53
- (25) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge: Level 53
- (25) Aegis - Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (43) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 50
- (43) Aegis - Resistance: Level 53
- (46) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance: Level 53
- (A) Flight Speed IO: Level 50
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 53
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (42) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge: Level 53
- (42) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (42) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 53
- (43) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 53
- (A) Air Burst - Accuracy/Damage: Level 53
- (33) Air Burst - Damage/Endurance: Level 53
- (34) Air Burst - Damage/Recharge: Level 53
- (39) Air Burst - Damage/Range: Level 53
- (A) Explosive Strike - Damage/Knockback: Level 20
- (34) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 20
- (36) Explosive Strike - Accuracy/Knockback: Level 20
- (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt: Level 53
- (36) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge: Level 53
- (36) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range: Level 53
- (37) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 53
- (37) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range: Level 53
- (37) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage: Level 53
- (A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40
- (48) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
- (50) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance: Level 53
- (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge: Level 53
- (45) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (46) Red Fortune - Defense: Level 53
- (46) Red Fortune - Endurance: Level 53
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 53
- (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 53
- (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 53
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 53
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 53
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 53
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
Level 2: Ninja Run
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Set Bonus Totals:
- 10% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 10% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 10% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 10% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 10% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 10% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 10% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 10% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 13.5% Defense(Smashing)
- 13.5% Defense(Lethal)
- 15.4% Defense(Fire)
- 15.4% Defense(Cold)
- 12.6% Defense(Energy)
- 12.6% Defense(Negative)
- 6% Defense(Psionic)
- 16.3% Defense(Melee)
- 17.3% Defense(Ranged)
- 20.1% Defense(AoE)
- 2% Enhancement(Knockback)
- 6% Enhancement(Heal)
- 28.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 40% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 2% Enhancement(Knockup)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 104.4 HP (9.75%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -8)
- Knockup (Mag -8)
- MezResist(Confused) 6.65%
- MezResist(Held) 13.8%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 8.3%
- MezResist(Sleep) 5%
- MezResist(Stun) 5%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 7.75%
- 10.5% (0.18 End/sec) Recovery
- 42% (2.25 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 0.63% Resistance(Smashing)
- 0.63% Resistance(Lethal)
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
- 6.13% Resistance(Psionic)
- 15% RunSpeed
- 5.5% XPDebtProtection
Set Bonuses:
Achilles' Heel
(Channelgun)
- 1.5% DamageBuff(All)
- 1.88% Defense(AoE), 0.94% Defense(Fire), 0.94% Defense(Cold)
(Crab Spider Armor Upgrade)
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3% Defense(All)
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
(Combat Training: Defensive)
- 1.5% XPDebtProtection
- 16.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
(Slice)
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- Status Resistance 2.5%
- 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
- 11% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3.13% Defense(Melee), 1.56% Defense(Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Smashing)
(Hover)
- 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- 3.13% Resistance(Psionic)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Tactical Training: Maneuvers)
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- MezResist(Confused) 1.65%
- 1.5% XPDebtProtection
- 3.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Suppression)
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- Status Resistance 2.5%
- 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
- 11% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3.13% Defense(Melee), 1.56% Defense(Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Smashing)
(Stamina)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
(Tactical Training: Leadership)
- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
- 20.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
- 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
(Fortification)
- 5% RunSpeed
- 3.13% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.56% Defense(AoE)
- 2.5% XPDebtProtection
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
- 3% Resistance(Psionic)
(Fortification)
- 3% Defense(All)
(Serum)
- 12% (0.64 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
- 6% Enhancement(Heal)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
(Venom Grenade)
- 2% Enhancement(Knockback), 2% Enhancement(Knockup)
- 8.03 HP (0.75%) HitPoints
- 0.63% Resistance(Smashing,Lethal)
(Frag Grenade)
- 1.5% DamageBuff(All)
- 1.88% Defense(Ranged), 0.94% Defense(Energy), 0.94% Defense(Negative)
(Omega Maneuver)
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
- 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
- 3.13% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.56% Defense(Melee)
(Tough)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
(Weave)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 2% DamageBuff(All)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)
(Maneuvers)
- 10% (0.54 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 12 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Switched a few sets from my original planned build and came up with this in about five minutes looking for the last boost to positional defense. Everything except Psionic is softcapped, and that hole can be closed by popping a purple or two since it's up at 39.1 base.
If anyone thinks they could improve on this...feel free. Well, improve for the OP's goals of minimal PVP/Purple stuff. I can easily fiddle with this myself for a maxxed out build using purples and PVP which will be more easily accessed with Alignment Merits.
A good thing to note is that Positional defense is still softcapped without Hover on, but no typed defense is, so you aren't sacrificing MUCH protection by turning on your travel power.
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Well then. |
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Wow. Thanks for all the ideas. Another thing I should mention I that I am not a huge fan of setting up stuff ahead of time - that is, not the way you seems to have to with /traps. I more like to move with the flow.
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Bots/Storm. Good times.
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Quote:
Extremely realistic. Obnoxiously survivable, but I didn't post originally because you said you retire them at 50. Fire/Shield is pretty good with SOs/IOs but you don't get that performance until you spend some time putting together a build. |
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Anyone familiar with Fire/SD Scrappers that can chime in? One thing I read said that he was even handling +2/8-man solo missions! Realistic?
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My Fire/Shield can do +3/x8 missions and solo AVs like Ghost Widow, but I don't have any purples right now, so if that's the only drawback for you then go for it. But don't expect to be at that level right at 50.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Quote:
Agreed. It takes a lot of investment to get a fire/sd there, and it assumes you'll be playing at 50 to get it there. Based on the OP's rules of retiring at 50, I don't think this is the character he's looking for.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Extremely realistic. Obnoxiously survivable, but I didn't post originally because you said you retire them at 50. Fire/Shield is pretty good with SOs/IOs but you don't get that performance until you spend some time putting together a build.
My Fire/Shield can do +3/x8 missions and solo AVs like Ghost Widow, but I don't have any purples right now, so if that's the only drawback for you then go for it. But don't expect to be at that level right at 50. |
SD/Fire/Pyre tank
Softcap it at lvl27 with some IO-Sets and switch to +2/x8, when soloing
Combustion at lvl 4
Shield Charge at lvl 26
Fire Sword Cyrcle at lvl 28
Fire Ball at lvl 47
No mini AOEs with small Cones or 8" Range, so bringing the AOE-Damage to most of the Targets around you is very easy. With AAO + Build Up you can kill entire +2/ x8 Spawns in no time. With some LOTGs, Crushing Impacts, Oblits aso. SC and BU are up all ~30 Seconds.
Easy play->jump in and stand in the middle and laugh the NPCs in their faces then hit BU, SC, Combustion, FSC, Fire Ball. After that kill the 2 Lieutnants that are lft and move to the next spawn. At this time BU and SC should be up again.
Wow, so many ideas! Thanks.
I just hit 50 with my Ill/Kin Controller - had an INSANE recharge with that one when I was done, perma hasten, PA, IndomWill, FS/Tranference/Transfusion/Blind up all the time, triple and quadruple stacking Siphon Speed, Assault, Tactics - fun times.
But he is 50 now, so he goes on the shelf.
Which means it is now time for me to focus directly on the project mentioned here. What I think I may do is widen the field of possible ATs to Corruptor, Scrapper, Brute, Blaster, and Crab. What I think I will do is develop a project mission statement, and work with kind people in each forum devoted to the above ATs to make the best builds towards the goal in each AT, using the build posted in this thread as a starting point (and thanks for those.)
Quick question: I tried Warshades and Peacebringers many times, never really developed a liking for them. Are Spiders/Crabs equally annoying, as the villain VEAT? What is the 'downside' to playing a Villain VEAT? (Or technically, a VEAT - Villain VEAT is repetitive.) Do VEATs populate your missions with nemises, the way Kheldians bring in Quantum thingys into missions?
Thanks.
For Great Justice!
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Just wanted to point out that fury is unaffected by defense- any outgoing or incoming attempted attack builds fury. If hits needed to actually land- people would really be complaining about brutes nowadays.
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Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
(Or does the SR and not getting hit kill Fury too much?)
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Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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i laughed so hard that tears were shed.|
Originally Posted by RedSwitchblade
Wasn't sure.
Anyway I've seen a petless bots/Traps in action. Sit down kids, let me tell you the tale of Professor Freak. |
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
The first AT that comes to mind is Crab. You don't really need fancy sets and Crab gets very good team defense buff and very good aoe and you don't need to buff your teammates. Just put on the toggles and GO GO GO.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training Power Pool: Fitness Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
Try using Villain EAT. |
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Are Spiders/Crabs equally annoying, as the villain VEAT? What is the 'downside' to playing a Villain VEAT? (Or technically, a VEAT - Villain VEAT is repetitive.) Do VEATs populate your missions with nemises, the way Kheldians bring in Quantum thingys into missions?
Thanks. |
VEATs have no special enemies or any real downside besides being a bit squishy in the lower levels. Overall VEATs have generally been considered borderline OP by the midgame and just plain insane in the late game. Like HEATs they do best on teams, but VEATs do it by boosting the rest of the team.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Scrappers don't get Combustion, Fiery Melee's only other PBAoE. So /Fire Scrappers are basically just spamming Fire Sword Circle for most of their AoE, and they're always cited as having "fantastic" AoE. Since Spin is better, faster, and cheaper by itself...AND the set has other area attacks...it follows that Claws must be a better than fantastic area attack set.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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