"pure" healers + going rogue


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

Hey fellow defs (trapper / pistols here):

I can't wait to see what effect going rogue will have for a certain sub-sect of defenders, the healer-only builds. I can feel the hate and loathing now from the healer-only crowd, but I hope more and more defenders will use both their primary and secondary powers with corruptors and masterminds in the mix.

I realize even some corruptors advertise themselves as healer-only, but there's way more wannabe-empaths out there who skipped out on everything else but their heals, rez, and rec aura.

Heals? good.
Complete support? great.
Complete support with slotted attacks?
Complete support w/ an army of gigantic robots armed to the teeth at your beck and call? Holy.....

Hopefully seeing more complete support toons running around and "arresting" crims with style will passively spur the healer-only crowd to respec into full empath defenders.


 

Posted

When making teams redside, chances are I will still invite Corrs over Defenders...


 

Posted

If "pure" healers haven't adapted yet, they aren't going to.


 

Posted

Given the difficulty of Going Rogue's missions and its low level range, a "pure" healer would actually fair better in Praetoria than in COX in general. That's not to say they are necessary, but there is a lot more death thrown around than in the main game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Given the difficulty of Going Rogue's missions and its low level range, a "pure" healer would actually fair better in Praetoria than in COX in general. That's not to say they are necessary, but there is a lot more death thrown around than in the main game.
Granted, because no one's SO level yet, much less IO + bonuses. Scrappers and tanks are barely sturdier than blasters.

Good empaths grow to be heals/buffs/added dps and are just awesome to have around. For that matter good defenders grow to be buffers/debuffers/dps.

Bad healers grow to be heals/stand around/shoot for 9 damage on their 1 slotted tier 1 attack.

Hopefully when more and more blue side healbots (not everyone plays both sides) see they're getting passed on for corruptors, masterminds, and defenders, they'll get the message. Experience is the best teacher, I hope.


 

Posted

I've thought about it.

And I've realized something: Empathy's a hard set to play well.

It involves knowing who benefits from which buffs, and that entails 1.) knowing what the buffs do; 2.) knowing something about the powers people on the team have which requires 2.a) reading character descriptions; 3.) knowing when you're done with the primary so you can lay down the secondary. You will, however, rarely get thanked for anything 'cause there won't be a flood of green numbers.

Or you follow the Granite tanker, load him up with stacked CMs and Fort, put HA on auto and get congratulated for your 133+ h33lz.

Edit: and FF is, IME, dead easy to play in contrast. Keep Dispersion Bubble on at all times. Every 3.5 minutes, rebubble teammates. For the other 3 minutes, punch mobs in face.


 

Posted

I have thought about this, too. When my demons/thermal starts strolling through the streets of Founders Falls, it should really shake things up. For healing, not much touches the green number output from the thermal secondary and a pet that thinks he's a fire/thermal corruptor. The extra thermal shields and auras will rock the hero world.


Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.

 

Posted

Unfortunatey, given the likely influx of new players and of returning players who've been away for a very long time (making them also effectively new players), catering to the so-called "holy trinity" mentality is likely to be effective. Many of these players will have the expectation that they need a healer, so I wouldn't be surprised if this particular dead horse rears its ugly head in a big way in Praetoria.


With great power comes great RTFM -- Lady Sadako
Iscariot's Guide to the Tri-Form Warshade, version 2.1
I'm sorry that math > your paranoid delusions, but them's the breaks -- Nethergoat
P.E.R.C. Rep for Liberty server

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningChick View Post
I've thought about it.

And I've realized something: Empathy's a hard set to play well.

It involves knowing who benefits from which buffs, and that entails 1.) knowing what the buffs do; 2.) knowing something about the powers people on the team have which requires 2.a) reading character descriptions; 3.) knowing when you're done with the primary so you can lay down the secondary. You will, however, rarely get thanked for anything 'cause there won't be a flood of green numbers.

Or you follow the Granite tanker, load him up with stacked CMs and Fort, put HA on auto and get congratulated for your 133+ h33lz.

Edit: and FF is, IME, dead easy to play in contrast. Keep Dispersion Bubble on at all times. Every 3.5 minutes, rebubble teammates. For the other 3 minutes, punch mobs in face.
While I agree that FF is simple as hell to play, I disagree about Emp. Compared to other support sets its fairly straightforward to play well.

Which makes it all the more depressing that so many Emps are terribad


Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts View Post

Hopefully when more and more blue side healbots (not everyone plays both sides) see they're getting passed on for corruptors, masterminds, and defenders, they'll get the message. Experience is the best teacher, I hope.
Except for the fact they won't get passed on. You see plenty of people searching for healzors and buffbots on red side........even though such an action is an even bigger waste on that side.

Just because there is a bigger pool of ATs doesn't mean people are suddenly going to stop pretending this is some other game.


 

Posted

Empathy should be a set which is easy to play well. I could go from one team with one dynamic that requires an empath to buff and pretty much heal one person; now and then. There is no time spent travelling from one person to another and so plenty of time to blast for something to do..to another team of people with a completely unrecognised sense of play due to the fact they might get healz.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts View Post
Bad healers grow to be heals/stand around/shoot for 9 damage on their 1 slotted tier 1 attack.
You assume that unslotted tier 1 attack is even in the power tray. it's not. Instead they have Healing Aura, Heal Other, Rez, maybe the 2 RA's, Clear Mind (maybe), Aid Other, Aid Self, Stimulant (maybe), the rez from medicine pool, Recall Friend (cause it's too much trouble to rez someone mid battle), and maybe 2 or 3 travel powers. Oh, and stamina.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
You assume that unslotted tier 1 attack is even in the power tray. it's not. Instead they have Healing Aura, Heal Other, Rez, maybe the 2 RA's, Clear Mind (maybe), Aid Other, Aid Self, Stimulant (maybe), the rez from medicine pool, Recall Friend (cause it's too much trouble to rez someone mid battle), and maybe 2 or 3 travel powers. Oh, and stamina.
I used to know a healer like that. They regarded themselves as the best on the server and one of the pros obviously. To each our own.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
You assume that unslotted tier 1 attack is even in the power tray. it's not. Instead they have Healing Aura, Heal Other, Rez, maybe the 2 RA's, Clear Mind (maybe), Aid Other, Aid Self, Stimulant (maybe), the rez from medicine pool, Recall Friend (cause it's too much trouble to rez someone mid battle), and maybe 2 or 3 travel powers. Oh, and stamina.
It's every healzor's dream to dabble as a taxibot.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Pirate Boggarts View Post
Hopefully seeing more complete support toons running around and "arresting" crims with style will passively spur the healer-only crowd to respec into full empath defenders.
That is about as likely as the rest of the bad players playing defenders becoming capable.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas View Post
...depressing that so many Emps are terribad
You said terribad. Hehe.


50s: Bla- Arch/Mental Cont- Mind/FF, Earth/Cold, Ill/Therm, Earth/Rad Dominator- Plant/Psi, Elec/Earth Corr- Fire/Storm, Arch/Sonic, Rad/Kin, Beam/Sonic, Psi/Time Stalker- Elec/SR Def- Storm/Dark, Emp/Psi, Dark/Elec, FF/Arch, TA/Ice, TA/Elec, Kin/AR, Cold/DP, Traps/Psi Scrap- Fire/Shield Tanker- Dark/Mace, Ice/Kin Brute- Claws/WP, SS/Energy, BS/Elec

 

Posted

Is that like a dead terrapin?


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas View Post
While I agree that FF is simple as hell to play, I disagree about Emp. Compared to other support sets its fairly straightforward to play well.

Which makes it all the more depressing that so many Emps are terribad
I disagree with your disagreement.

First other buffs are pretty straight forward. Everyone (mostly) benefits from cold, thermal, FF, and sonic shields, they're easy to keep going around, and there's no decision making involved. Empathy's buffs are a mixture of things and limited by recharge so you must be selective on who receives them.

Look at Fortitude, for example. With basic IO's and hasten it can be maintained on 3/4 people. So who gets it? Well, that depends on the AT, the situation, and the player. It's a fantastic defense buff for squishies and a nice damage buff. I tend to give it the blasters, but wait! This mish is against carnies and the tank is getting flattened! Looks, like he could use that Fort for the psi-defense. The same goes for Adrenalin Boost. I could just toss it on the tank so he can suck up more damage, or I could throw it on a blaster so they're free to nuke their little heart out, or I could toss it on the other emp (who had better return the favor) so both of our auras are up faster. In order to know what to do though, I need to check player's info, see what powers they have, and also see how they're going to play.

The amount of thought required to use Empathy's buffs well is at least equal to the the thought required to use the debuff side of cold, thermal and sonic.


 

Posted

I personally don't care if someone wants to make a "pure healer" build or not. But if you decide to go that way, use fortitude on more than just one person. That's all I ask.


 

Posted

I'd agree that Empathy's pretty tricky to play well on a team above 3 people. It requires fairly constant monitoring of your own power bar (for powers recharging) as well as the team HUD (for heals and mezzes as required), the team chat channel (if you're using the 'zzz' method to apply Clear Mind) and the main battelfield for using your secondary.

Almost all other buff sets require you to drop into 'buff mode' every 2 to 4 minutes and apply buffs in a way that can almost be done blindfold with the right binds.


 

Posted

Empathy does benefit from a knowledge other AT's and sets as that lets you get the most benefit from Fort, CR, AB. For instance I was on a team recently taking out a GM, and we were struggling with dealing enough damage to beat its regen. So I stuck AB on the Kin Defender and then he alone was able the cripple the GM from super fast Transfusions.

It also benefits from a keen eye on the debuff window of your team which allows you to predict incoming attacks and heal it up fast. Sometimes that is the only way to save a squishy. E.g: At low level and you are fighting trolls, if the blaster has 3 "throw boulder" cons on his debuff bar then you know he is going to be taking some damage.

Ultimately though every set benefits from this kind of knowledge, but I do feel some sympathy for Empaths. There is a lot of stupid associated with the set and its a shame for people who are actually really good with it, but what can you do. :-)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacemoon View Post
if the blaster has 3 "throw boulder" cons on his debuff bar then you know he is going to be taking some damage.
Have to admit, my first instinct is to let said blaster die...

Then cast vengeance


 

Posted

Playing an Emp well requires that you a) know how to use your buffs well, b) maintain situational awareness and c)contribute damage via blasting

Playing most other sets well (basically any set more balanced with offensive/defensive powers requires a) knowing how to use your buffs well b) knowing how to use your offensive powers well, c) maintaining situational awareness and d) contributing damage via blasting.

Yes, Emp has more ally buffs than say Thermal or Cold but if you boil it down to its constituent parts, more balanced sets are more complex to play well.

Mind you, I'm not saying zomg emp is teh EZmode and all other support sets are 4 PROS ONLY. Just, you know, Emp is easier to play well.


Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulmens View Post
Defending the people who need it is haaaard.
I'm defending the 6 still breathing team members and myself by buffing us!
Someone's gotta be the veng bait, that's all...
(Just trying to inject humor )

Can't wait until GR comes out, see you all in Praetoria