Looking for a highly usefull controller build for solo and teams
By
BlackSly,
Posted on: 2010-08-06 04:15 in Controllers
Look up ill/rads. They can either solo or team and be useful as both.
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Take a look at my Illusion/Radiation Guide -- just click on the link in my signature below. An Ill/Rad is the most flexible build in the game. Great solo. Great on small teams. Great on big teams. The only thing an Ill/Rad is not good at is farming large numbers of foes, but no build is better than an Ill/Rad at handling really tough foes like AVs.|
Originally Posted by sevenshade
I am the kind of player that loves to team up and be useful to any team i get into.
I liked the idea of controllers, making enemies immobile, or slowing them down, or putting them to sleep. i want a build that works good enough solo, but goes great with a team and good for endgame raids and instances. yes i have given the guides section a look, but its like being a kid in a candy store i can't decide on what to get. |
I also recommend an Ill/Rad as a "first" controller. It is easy to play moderately well, but has the complexity to be a challenge to play it really well.
My guide has recommendations on an effective leveling-up build, lots of strategies, and then includes discussions on the super end-game build. It also has a lot of information on the basics of being a controller.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
And I'll throw out "anything but illusion," especially as a first controller. /Rad's a good, if "hard to find something to skip" secondary. Pair with Mind/ or Fire/. Season to taste.
First Troller? Plant naturally, it's the easiest one to start off with and right up there with Fire or Ill as the most powerful.
I prefer Fire/Rad. Good controller damage solo, great control/buffs/debuffs/heals for teaming. Ill/Rad is better for AVs, but for everything else, I prefer Fire/Rad for its containment and better AOE hard control. But there are many great combos. If soloing is important, I'd only stay away from Earth and Ice. Earth is ok if you have 2-3 Veteran attacks to make use of its -defense.
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I'm going to throw my hat in for Mind Control for a good first controller set. Its first three powers give you a respectable attack chain and functions pretty much like a blaster with mez. Then you get an AoE fear which does good damage. After that you have Confuse, and AoE versions of sleep, hold, and confuse, allowing you to stack pretty much any of your effects. And whether on a team or solo, being able to take an EB out of the fight with a few layers of confusion will always be beneficial. There's also TK which is basically an end-expensive toggle which adds 3 points of Hold... nice for getting EBs held fast or pushing away foes if your team isn't ready for them. Note however that without a pet, Mind doesn't seem as effective after level 32 as most other 'troller sets.
As for a secondary, Rad is good: it offers enough self buffs, team buffs, and foe debuffs to be useful despite the situation. Trick Arrow is nice: it gives you plenty of debuffs to use on foes, but no buffs if you care about that sort of thing (though to be honest, a -15% Tohit debuff on an enemy is functionally similar to a +15% Def buff on an ally, and a -15% Resistance debuff is functionally similar to a +15% Damage buff). Force Fields and Sonic are great on teams but a little less useful solo. Kin is great but doesn't offer much pro-active protection and requires you to stay in melee to get the most out of it.
just my 2 inf =)
-STEELE =)
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Well Ive started an illusion/rad controller, got him to level 10 so far. not much for group holds except for flash and that has a very long recharge time even with two recharge enhancments on it.
i got invited into a team and they said "just heal" acting as that was my only power useful for the team.
so when does illusion/rad get good? what level and what powers make it worth sticking with?
Illusion does take some time to "come into its own", though, honestly, the AOE Immobilize other sets have really just gets them in trouble early on. Big aggro, no actual incapacitating mezz effect, not enough damage to kill anything, and even if it could, it's damage-over-time.
You'll turn the corner at 18, when you get Phantom Army. Spectral Terror gives you your alternate AOE Mezz power. You'll want Superior Invisibility, if not for the stealth, then for the reduction of your own personal "threat" on teams (and, later, when soloing with Phantasm).
All of the first four of the Radiation Emission powers should be "killer app"-level for a team (and solo, really), not just Radiant Aura.
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Originally Posted by sevenshade
Well Ive started an illusion/rad controller, got him to level 10 so far. not much for group holds except for flash and that has a very long recharge time even with two recharge enhancments on it.
i got invited into a team and they said "just heal" acting as that was my only power useful for the team. so when does illusion/rad get good? what level and what powers make it worth sticking with? |
Did you take a look at my Illusion/Radiation Guide? I have recommended builds for leveling. I hope you took Deceive . . . use it a lot in low levels. I suggest you skip Flash until later in the build . . . in low levels, it is not all that useful. In low levels, you almost act more as a defender, using your debuffs and blast powers. But once you get Phantom Army at 18, things change.
As for the team saying "Just heal"? That is not a team you want to be on. Unfortunately, you run into teams like that, mostly on Freedom.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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I quite agree with Local. Even at low levels, where healing tends to be a bit more useful, an ill controller brings a lot to a team. Deceive is great power that brings faster defeats and more team safety. You can prevent a great deal of that incoming damage. The team that tells you to just heal is uninformed.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
Did you take a look at my Illusion/Radiation Guide? I have recommended builds for leveling. I hope you took Deceive . . . use it a lot in low levels. I suggest you skip Flash until later in the build . . . in low levels, it is not all that useful. In low levels, you almost act more as a defender, using your debuffs and blast powers. But once you get Phantom Army at 18, things change.
As for the team saying "Just heal"? That is not a team you want to be on. Unfortunately, you run into teams like that, mostly on Freedom. |
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I'll echo this. Plant starts strong and stays strong and is useful both solo and teamed.|
Originally Posted by Robert_B
First Troller? Plant naturally, it's the easiest one to start off with and right up there with Fire or Ill as the most powerful.
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I have a Plant/TA/Fire and I can lock down entire spawns while teamed and still do damage fast and efficient enough to solo farm.
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That is a team strong on Ignorant/Idiot builds, with Cluelessness slotted with purples. |
Originally Posted by sevenshade
i got invited into a team and they said "just heal" acting as that was my only power useful for the team.
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Right click, add player note, one star, note why, and drop the team.
Honestly if you want to know the truth, I'll breakdown each set and explain my experience.
Earth Prim: By far the most useful set of a Troller, second to Mind for the most controllerish.
Fire Prim: You will find that this is the most used set for the strong reason that it is usable out of the box, sort of speak. In my opinion the easiest set to use.
Gravity Prim: Though I feel this set needs quite a bit of work, this set well be the most fun, you got powers that throw forklifts at the enemies, a power that grabs up a bunch of baddies and warp them to where you want. Fun.
Ice Prim: Can't really help ya here, never really used the set.
Illusion Prim: The first controller set I used, loved the invis, loved the PA. The whole set is pure win, the down side is not too beginner friendly, I had to learn other ATs before I was any good with Ill.
Mind Prim: In my opinion the best Controller set in the game. This is the topnotch set, I plan to use only this set on my Dom after GR goes live. Still not a good set for people new to Controllers.
Plant Prim: This is the set I would suggest for people starting out on Trollers, it's got all the right tools at the right lvls and not too bad on end drain. Try out Plant Control.
As for your secondary set, there are a few I feel synergy well, Thermal is your best bet, you got heals, shields, and debuffs at later lvls.
Other sets I would suggest is Radiation Emission is a nice set and not too much management, another fun set might be Trick Arrow.
All the other set well require a little bit more thought and management to use them effectively. I'll let you decide though, this is just my opinion.
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Illusion is great, but... odd. Plant is great, and visually apparent :P. I would also reccomend Plant for someone looking for a controllery controller, one who has harder lockdown capabilities.
To the OP: At 18 get Phantom Army. They deal damage, they are invincible (yes... cannot be killed/hurt/damaged/dubuffed/affected/healed off of at all - invincible), and they taunt. Yahoos and wingnuts gamewide will occasionaly tell you not to use them. Kindly ignore them and spawn your brood. At 26 grab Spectral Terror, he's your spawn to spawn control.
i found a plant/thermal build as shown here
does this build really need the power pools as shown? would i be botching the build if i took the power pools for flight instead of the health and stamina?
Level 1: Strangler
Level 1: Warmth
Level 2: thermal shield
Level 4: cauterize
Level 6: Roots
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion
Level 10: plasmas shield
Level 12: combat jump
Level 14: super jump
Level 16: swift
Level 18: health
Level 20: stamina
Level 22: power of the phoenix
Level 24: forge
Level 26: carrion creepers
Level 28: vines
Level 30: thaw
Level 32: Fly Trap
Level 35: Heat exhaustion
Level 38: melt armor
Level 41: fire ball
Level 44: fire blast
Level 47: Spirit Tree
Level 49: Recall Friend
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty (A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty (A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty (A)
Level 1: Containment
I would highly recommend NOT dropping Health/Stamina for the Flight Power pool.
I wouldn't say you would be botching the build but it would mean you would have to slot your powers for a lot of endurance reduction to stop yourself running out of endurance half way through a spawn, every spawn.
Thermal is a endurance hungry set from my experience and, although there are arguments that you don't need Stamina with the right slotting (i.e. what I've said above), Stamina just makes life a lot more easier and allows your toon to keep up a decent pace.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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It'd probably make more sense for you to drop the leaping power pool and take flight as opposed to dropping the fitness pool. Just sayin'.
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Originally Posted by sevenshade
i found a plant/thermal build as shown here
does this build really need the power pools as shown? would i be botching the build if i took the power pools for flight instead of the health and stamina? |
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With only a few exceptions, Stamina is virtually required on all characters. The exceptions are characters that may have another way to recover endurance (such as Kinetic Defenders with Transference, or Warshades with Stygian Circle), or characters who have lower endurance usage and are built with lots and lots of Endurance reduction and recovery bonuses. (An Archery Blaster can be made without Stamina.) There are a small number of people who pride themselves on avoiding Stamina, but the vast majority of players find it indispensible.|
Originally Posted by sevenshade
i found a plant/thermal build as shown here
does this build really need the power pools as shown? would i be botching the build if i took the power pools for flight instead of the health and stamina? Level 1: Strangler Level 1: Warmth Level 2: thermal shield Level 4: cauterize Level 6: Roots Level 8: Seeds of Confusion Level 10: plasmas shield Level 12: combat jump Level 14: super jump Level 16: swift Level 18: health Level 20: stamina Level 22: power of the phoenix Level 24: forge Level 26: carrion creepers Level 28: vines Level 30: thaw Level 32: Fly Trap Level 35: Heat exhaustion Level 38: melt armor Level 41: fire ball Level 44: fire blast Level 47: Spirit Tree Level 49: Recall Friend ------------ Level 1: Brawl -- Empty (A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty (A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty (A) Level 1: Containment |
Dropping Combat Jumping and Super Jump would make more sense if you want Fly. You can either take Air Superiority (a nice melee attack that flips foes and knocks down fliers) or Hover, to get to Fly. A Plant Controller is somewhat lacking in single target damage, so Air Superiority might be a good choice for you.
And by the way, it would generally be better to take Hurdle rather than Swift if you are going to use Super Jump for travel. Hurdle+Combat Jumping is good enough to get you around short distances, so that you don't even have to turn on Super Jump, and Hurdle makes Super Jump better. Hurdle is also better with Super Speed. Swift is fine if you go with Fly.
As for your power choices: you did a pretty nice job. I personally would probably go with Air Sup/Fly over CJ/SJ, but that is a matter of taste. You took all the key Plant powers when you needed to (I might have moved Roots up a slot, but no big thing). The only powerchoice that some people might question is Rise of the Phoenix . . . rez powers are nice to have but fairly optional, since there are quite a few other ways to rez people. But especially on some types of teams, like Pick-Up Groups, having a Rez power is nice. Your last two powerchoices are entirely optional -- some folks might choose differently, but the two you picked are reasonable.
At least you got Seeds of Confusion at level 8 . . . I teamed with a Plant/Rad this weekend who was in the mid 30's and did not have Seeds. I tried to nicely explain that it is a key power of the set, and he/she made it clear that he/she does not like confuse powers and won't take them. I let the issue drop, but I don't really see the purpose of a Plant Controller without Seeds of Confusion.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
BTW, Earth and Plant are the two best Controller sets for pure controlling, with Mind also as a good argument. Illusion is a great set, but not for normal controlling.
Take Stamina on anything that doesn't have Endurance Recovery powers, and probably even then. Especially since Kin and Cold get theirs very late.
AoE Hold is not dependable until mid 20s when you have enough slots to get it well slotted, while Stuns and Confuses are good when picked up.
i should have said in the begining that i did not make the build myself, i got it from the guides section. i just wanted to know about the power pools. I see how it makes sense to take stamina now.
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As alot of the other posters have told you, you really do need Stamina unless your build has a power (Like Kinetics) that will restore it for you and even then, since that particular power needs to hit to work, you never know. The only other exception is if like me you have more then one account and you use the 2nd one as a "Pocket Kin" or whatever and Speed Boost yourself (works great).|
Originally Posted by sevenshade
i should have said in the begining that i did not make the build myself, i got it from the guides section. i just wanted to know about the power pools. I see how it makes sense to take stamina now.
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As the self proclaimed "King of Plant trollers" (ie. only I think it) the build you posted wasn't bad, but skipping Stamina is a mistake, if you want to have Fly (which I do on all my builds, it's the safest travel power) then drop the leaping pool for it.
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Wait...WHA? no seeds? ho boy, my guess is that this "person" was afraid of the XP loss that SOME people think happens with seeds, YIKES. With the 2x damage you do with Roots your gonna get most if not all regardless of confusion or not. Toss in your Pet and Creepers, well, if they don't understand now they wont.
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Originally Posted by Local_Man
At least you got Seeds of Confusion at level 8 . . . I teamed with a Plant/Rad this weekend who was in the mid 30's and did not have Seeds. I tried to nicely explain that it is a key power of the set, and he/she made it clear that he/she does not like confuse powers and won't take them. I let the issue drop, but I don't really see the purpose of a Plant Controller without Seeds of Confusion.
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Ahh! Yes, this is something you need to know about in CoH.|
Originally Posted by sevenshade
i got invited into a team and they said "just heal" acting as that was my only power useful for the team.
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The game contains occasional idiots.
Seriously, that is a really, really, stupid thing for someone to say to basically ANY defender or controller. You just gotta accept that, sometimes, the people you group with don't understand the game.
IMHO, the thing to do at that point is to set your heal on auto, /follow the tank, and read a book. Or, alternatively, get a group which doesn't suck.
In my experience the best troller for soloing and teams is Fire/Rad (well, except fire/kin but im sick of fire/kin). I almost soloed my fire/rad all the way to 50 and it was fun the whole time. Its a great combo for soloing and also very useful on teams. For me it was the most powerful troller I ever rolled.
If you want to feel like an unstoppable God then try Fire/Rad.
My very first 50 was a mind/kinetic and they worked beautifully together. It was awesome to play. Mind puts them to sleep and the kinetics siphons their power without waking them up.
Its a little slow going soloing but it's doable. Teams love kinetics. Hit the mobs with FS, then Terrify (my favorite power) then mass confusion and the mobs are helpless while your team rips them apart.
Believe it or not, Ice/Storm was a very fun combo. You cant really solo with it (at least I couldnt) but its absolutely killer on teams. With Ice Patch and Freezing Rain you always have a patch to drop on every mob. When one power runs out, the other is recharged and ready for you to use. The mobs are popping up and down like popcorn and helpless, teams love it and remember you. I had no problems getting on teams and hitting lvl 50 with that one lol.
I'm playing an Ill/FF right now and its great for soloing and teams and a lot of fun. When you solo you can use your forcefields to constantly knock back your enemies while PA and Phantasm defeat them. In teams the shields are useful for teammates.
I know rad is probably more desired than FF, but sometimes rad is a pain cuz you're constantly using it. The team defeats your anchor first (they always do) so you're always waiting for it to recharge and then looking for a new anchor.
With FF you give your teammates their shields and dont have to think of it again for 2 minutes.
those are my favorite builds.
Imo earth, gravity, ice and plant are slow to solo.
Global: @Fire Beam
I am the kind of player that loves to team up and be useful to any team i get into.
I liked the idea of controllers, making enemies immobile, or slowing them down, or putting them to sleep.
i want a build that works good enough solo, but goes great with a team and good for endgame raids and instances.
yes i have given the guides section a look, but its like being a kid in a candy store i can't decide on what to get.