Star Wars help.....

The same things that happened while Sleeping Beauty was waiting for the Prince

Except this is specifically and explicitly how Star Wars canon is set up. It isn't a hypothetical "Maybe he could do this", it is a definite "He can do this, any time he likes."

Certainly, practical and economic considerations would likely prevent him from wiping out anything not with his official hand on it, but they haven't ever stopped him from stepping in and doing what he wanted in spite of years of EU precedence.

Take the cortosis vibroblades in the KOTOR era, or even Mandalorian iron. Both creations of the EU, and both established in the EU as being at the very least lightsaber resistant. In a recent episode of The Clone Wars, the story called for Obi-Wan to duel a Mandalorian. The creative team intended to use a lightsaber resistant vibroblade for the Mandalorian's weapon. George specifically said "No. A lightsaber can cut through anything except another lightsaber," so they had to have the Mandalorian use a lightsaber.

A similar edict came down regarding Wookie Jedi. He was content to leave the handfull that had already been written, but was explicit that there would be no more.

Or perhaps you'd like the tragic tale of Anakin Solo. He's dead, gone, and unremarked because Lucas said he didn't want there to be two Anakins in Star Wars.

And that doesn't even touch on the ways the prequels stomped all over the EU.

Except...you can. You're reading a book called "Return of the Jedi". You read a chapter where, after the villains are defeated and their superweapon destroyed, people across the galaxy have a huge party and everyone is happy. You turn the last page, and what have you got? The blank inside of the back cover. The End. You might indulge a thought exercise about various things that could have happened after that party, but as far as the story goes, they're meaningless. The story has ended. Everyone is happy. That is the final state of the fictional universe.



Just as Star Wars is a self contained series of movies. I don't need the books or games or any peripheral merchandise to understand what is going on. I don't need Star Wars to reference Star Trek to get a sense of the galaxy as it stands. All I need are the six films.

None of those things matter to the story. What were they doing? They were "getting ready". It's really that easy. No complicated explanation required. I don't need to know how Lando got into Jabba's palace. It happened. I don't need to know how Leia got the bounty hunter costume. She had it. The 'how' of these things is unimportant to the narrative. How did Luke get better at using the Force? Maybe he practiced. Doesn't matter. The story tells us he is better, and we can either accept that as truth, or put the story away.

In the end, you're obviously free to continue to overthink things as they relate to Star Wars. That's certainly your choice to make. But being unable enjoy it without overthinking is your problem, not a flaw with the ending of the story.

Yeah, I do understand what it is, probably better than you do given your inability to see beyond it. I understand that it's fiction, so even your arguments can't be considered valid, as there is no reality to argue about, just your interpretation of it. I also understand that you can't come up with an argument against my point. My argument is made wholly within the context of those movies. Whether they lived happily ever after is irrelevant.

And also, we are never told in the movies that the balance is restored at the end. We are never told that destroying the Sith is what balances it. So you are just speculating that the balance is restored. We know the universe is "free and happy," but we are shown nothing in the movie to say that the Force is balanced. And since the movies are all that matters...

At least JKredan was able to post a reasonable explanation, although if we use your reasoning, since that explanation wasn't given in the movies, it's not valid.

After the crapfests that were Ep 1-3, how many people are willing to take Lucas' word over that of people who actually know how to write a story? Not as many as prior, I'd bet.


Maybe some people can. But I can't. Because when the ending doesn't make sense, it's not really an ending to me. And quite frankly, I could give a fig what Lucas considers "The End".

And that's fine.

For you.

However, some of us like to know how that situation came about. The people on Coruscant partying like it's 1999, hours after the Emperor is killed? Coruscant, the seat of Imperial power, is allowing that with all the stormies, police and political appartus? Just because you kill him, doesn't mean that beuacracy (sic) is going to stop immediately.

Tatooine and Cloud City I could kinda see partying...if Vader didn't leave a garrison of stormies on CC.

I prefer an active approach to movies and how they show things. You prefer the passive approach.

Except the ending IS flawed.

Only for people who miss the point of Star Wars

I've read the first two. I'll get to the third but I'm in no rush.

They're okay, nothing outstanding though. When Bane makes any sort of Dark Sider speech after his initial training on Korriban, you can practically hear the author grinding his teeth about how contradictory some Sith and Dark Side "philosophy" is.

They'll make eps 7-9, and remake 1-6. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time. And you do know how worthless it is to quote Lucas' stance on anything?

And here I thought I was the only one who liked that book. A lot of people seem to hate Corran Horn as a Mary Sue. Yeah, Rogue Squadron Jedi is probably a bit over-the-top, but I still don't really mind him.

This is an important one... For years leading up to the NJO, it seemed like every. Single. Book. was "Oh no! Renegade Imperial warlord Admiral [name here] is threatening galactic stability!" There was also a very good chance they had the superweapon of the day. Ysanne Isard, Warlord Zsinj, Admiral Daala, Admiral Thrawn, Moff Disra... Frankly, by the time NJO came out, I was ready to accept just about any other threat. Not to say that some of those weren't awesome, but by that point, it had been done to death.

I can see your point of view as well. Sometimes I wish I could shut it off and just enjoy a movie as a singular experience, but I can't usually. It's a gift and a curse, I see something in a movie and I wonder how that came about. They mention something that a character did outside the limited scope of the movie and I imagine it.

I'll admit my reading of EU stuff dropped off pretty dramatically, I didn't read the NJO stuff or really a lot of the newer things. I think my stopping point was when Jacen/Jaina were still kids and Anakin was just a baby/toddler.

As to what books are garbage? *shrug* I can enjoy a book if it doesn't have typos, the characters are consistent throughout (or near enough), and it can occupy some time. I read all kinds of things, from the Dune prequels (they aren't that bad) to SW books to WH40k stuff, etc.

The only problem with this is you're arguing with someone whose strongest arguments amount to the intelligence level of "I'm right because I'm right." She hasn't really been able to make a valid argument for anything in this discussion beyond that. I find it amusing that she's telling people that they don't understand what Star Wars is, when it's blindingly clear that she is the one who understands it least of all.

Just look at the two lines of dissenting opinions in this thread; You have JKedan, who can make a well thought, cohesive, and well stated argument for his opinion, and who can also admit that opinion might be colored by his dislike of the EU. Then you have GG, who basically stamps her feet, claiming to be right, while not being able to back it up with anything other than "because I said so," and just eggs people on because she can. Just let her believe she's right, and she'll wander away somewhere...

There were a few very specific instances where the opponent wasn't Remanent, but they usually weren't very good in terms of the actual story (Correllian trilogy and Black Fleet Trilogy). Black fleet introduced a lot of new ideas that instantly got scrapped and just flat out confused me. Correllian trilogy was a simple superweapon of the week series.

As to Canon vs non canon, I think it should be left to the reader/fan. Stomping your foot and yelling that Lucas is god isn't going to get you anywhere. Lucas is a good producer (kinda) but he sucks at directing.

One thing that's always been interesting about the land of Star Wars is that there is 0 technological movement for 10k plus years. Back in the days of Ulic Qel-Droma they were still running around with blasters, war droids, and star killing superweapons. And the REALLY interesting thing is that TOR that is upcoming has the aesthetic of the Clone Wars stupidly enough.

This is deliberate, actually. The intent is to have someone who's seen the Star Wars movies and Clone Wars cartoon but knows nothing else about the setting to instantly be able to recognize stuff.



-np

And some of the really bad stuff, like The Crystal Star and Darksaber.

As long as George is in charge, if he says there are no Ep 7 to 9 then there won't be. Granted he's changed his tune in the past, but at the moment there are no Ep 7 to 9.

As to his comments about "no Emperor clones" and "Luke doesn't get married", well the novels and their content have to have his stamp of approval or they don't get printed. Also I again reiterate that many of the novels were hampered by his "NO PREQUEL ERA" decree. I knew that Luke's quest for his mother in the Black Fleet Trilogy was going to be fake. Lucas wouldn't allow any revelations about her unless they were in the movies.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

I enjoyed I, Jedi; even though once he starts setting up in that pirate haven-city and scouts it all out I began to get a sense of deja vu. Then comes the comment about how pirates are superstitous and cowardly, plus he had Elegos as his servant or dare I say butler, and his cover was basically a drunk buffoon celebrating his pending promotion to the Pirate Queen's lover. But at night he suits up and use his security training and Jedi powers and theatrics to strike fear in the hearts of evil!

Kept waiting for a scared criminal to ask "WHO ARE YOU?" and for Corran to get in his face and say "I'm BATMAN!"

As to the NJO, my compliments to the authors for breaking the "invincibility bubble" by bringing death to the main characters. Chewbacca went out in a magnificent blaze of glory.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Oh, dammit. CANNOT UNSEE.

Weren't those both by the same guy?

Oh, there was also Truce at Bakura, where all of the characters became christian and helped out the Empire against an alien race (including an appearance by Anakin Skywalker to Leia to beg for her forgiveness).

Also, weren't crystal star and dark saber by the same guy? Or am I mixing that up with other tripe?

Crystal Star was by Vonda McIntyre, Darksaber was Kevin J Anderson.

I know. And I know it's 95% trolling, but still, maaaybe something will eventually get through the emoticons.

That does make perfect sense, and it's what I like to think the answer is, but isn't the official explanation rather far from that and needlessly complex? Something like the Dark Side is a corruption in the Force that isn't supposed to be there, and the Jedi thought that removing the corruption would return the Force to a pure and "balanced" state. And Luke fits into it somehow too.

A better explanation is thinking of good and evil as a pendulum. If you keep the pendulum more or less in the middle, then it's balanced. If you swing it too far to one side, it's going to need to swing to the other side at some point to balance things out.

Luke fits into it, because he's not that great a teacher or able to discern who is and who won't go Dark Side. Recruit everyone and occassionally some will go grr and some won't.

Darksaber was ok, Truce at Bakura was average. Crystal Star was horrid.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

My own take on the Balance of the force prophecy. Prophecies are always open to interpretation, so lets look at it from this certain point of view:

1. The Force was out of balance due to a large Jedi Order, and an Order that was also inflexible in its ways. Read the ep 3 novelization as Yoda realizes during his fight with the Emperor that he and the Jedi were trained to fight the Sith of 1000 years ago not the Sith of the present and that he couldn't win this fight. Later as he communes with the Force he speaks with Qui-Gon's ghost who offers to show him the path to true immortality aka Jedi Ghost technique. Yoda agrees to this. (THIS REALLY NEEDED TO BE IN EP 3 the movie)

2. Anakin goes batty and agrees to apprentice to Sidious and wipes out the Jedi except for Yoda and Obi-Wan (I would presume others survived the purge and hid but who knows). So now we have 2 Sith and 2 Jedi......balance?

3. Anakin sires twin offspring, boy and girl, one who will become a fighter (Luke) and the other a diplomat. Another balance of sorts, war and peace.

4. The Force's balance has titled from lightside to darkside with the ascension of the Emperor and for 20 years it stays that way until Luke comes of age and gets trained by Obi and Yoda. Luke then becomes the motivation Vader needs to wake up and realize what he has become and done and fulfill his destiny as the Chosen One.

Now the Force is rebalanced to the light side.

So to me, Anakin brought balance to the Force twice, by wiping out the Jedi and then later killing the Emperor and dying in the process.

From a certain point of view, of course

Also those Ewok movies are the like the Holiday Special.....best forgotten.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Thinking about it, it makes NO SENSE that the Jedi would be all fired concerned over this prophecy.

If the Jedi see "balancing the Force" meaning "Jedi win", why would they be concerned? At the time they found the "chosen one", the Jedi already HAD WON, as far as they could tell. They hadn't seen any Sith or darkside activity for AGES. They were an important part of galactic society. They had a totally sweet temple on the capitol planet and everyone gave them VIP treatment.

It'd be like someone showing up today and saying, "You know, I totally have this perfect way to win World War 2."

Why weren't they all like, "Hey, dude, you're late to the game, the Force was totally balanced a few centuries ago. Go home."


-np