What can challenge a fire/kin?
By
Cheeze_Head,
Posted on: 2010-07-21 20:29 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
ss/fire/mu brute. Provided by "challenge" you mean "beat"
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=195080
That thread has some good ideas and numbers.
plant kin does more damage with it's holds then fire kin (Carrion Vines are godly) ... though a well made fire kin will out damage it thanks to it's damage auras, and fire being less resisted in comparison to s/l
i'd say an Electric Melee/ Shield Defense Scrapper probably could challenge one, but that's only until i18, when they nerf shield charge. not much else in that class though; pretty much everything else... including the stuff listed thus far in this thread are clearly 2nd or 3rd tier to an El/SD, Plant/Kin, fire/kin
in that 2nd teir you have some good choices like spines + electric/fire/dark scrappers... or maybe a brute or two... though generally it seems rare a brute can keep it's fury high enough to put it into this type of classification.
Quote:
Farming for Purples|
Originally Posted by Sprite Fire
plant kin does more damage with it's holds then fire kin (Carrion Vines are godly) ... though a well made fire kin will out damage it thanks to it's damage auras, and fire being less resisted in comparison to s/l
i'd say an Electric Melee/ Shield Defense Scrapper probably could challenge one, but that's only until i18, when they nerf shield charge. not much else in that class though; pretty much everything else... including the stuff listed thus far in this thread are clearly 2nd or 3rd tier to an El/SD, Plant/Kin, fire/kin in that 2nd teir you have some good choices like spines + electric/fire/dark scrappers... or maybe a brute or two... though generally it seems rare a brute can keep it's fury high enough to put it into this type of classification. |
Mu: 48.87 Enemies per minute. (359k Inf/Minute) +0/x8 No Bosses, Liberate
Mu: 37.43 Enemies per minute. (348k Inf/Minute) +0/x8 Bosses, Liberate
Farming for Inf/Prestige/XP
Mu: 515k Inf/Minute (27.8 defeats) +3/x8 No Bosses, Liberate
Mu: 443.2k Inf/Minute (18.01 Defeats) +2/x8 Bosses, Liberate
That's an SS/Elec. An SS/Fire is even more effective. I'd be interested in seeing numbers on a Fire/Kin running foes capable of dropping purples exceed the #s of this SS/Elec.
My point being... your tiers are wrong.
Quote:
This.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
ss/fire/mu brute. Provided by "challenge" you mean "beat"
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I like Plant a lot better than Fire. Creepers for aggro management, fast-recharging confuse for control and higher damage Roots for containment.
If you want to recipe farm faster than a Fire just pick mobs that have AOEs that can be confused. Nothing quite like seeing a group of -1/8 mobs destroy themselves before you can even get your second Roots off.
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There's a lot of things that can challenge them. Fire/Kin is not some uber-unstoppable setup. Against certain mobs, yeah, they can wipe the floor with them. But anything that can break a Fire/Kin's rhythm and things become a LOT dicier.
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Originally Posted by Cheeze_Head
In terms of farming speed I'm aware that fire/kins are the go-to combo hands down. However, due to the overwhelming amount of them within Paragon City I've come to despise them. Is there a combo out there that can challenge the farming speed of the infamous fire/kin?
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Sounds great on paper! Boy, just jump from spawn to spawn casting roots + seeds then bam! Watch the recipes roll in!|
Originally Posted by tarrantm
If you want to recipe farm faster than a Fire just pick mobs that have AOEs that can be confused. Nothing quite like seeing a group of -1/8 mobs destroy themselves before you can even get your second Roots off.
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But wait, there's no map like that where you can use such a method that would beat a F/K or a SS Brute
SS/Fire Brute on +0/8 no bosses on Liberate can clear an entire of spawn of 20 in about 15-20 seconds give or take
Again, your method sounds awesome, and if such a dream place where you could do that exists, I've love to hear about it!
For pure offensive capabilities, I give a nod to SS/Fire/Mu Brute. I personally prefer SS/Elec/Mu for better survivability and the flexibility provided by the end drain/regain, which allows me to be useful at everything else outside the farm (such as tanking LRSFs old school style)
A properly built and played Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker can match a Fire/Kin.So can a Spines/Elec, Spines/FA, and Elec/FA Scrapper for that matter.
Theres going to be a HUGE nerf with Shield Charge comming in i18.So I wouldnt suggjesst rolling one of those Elec/SD Scrappers unless you feel like building another Farmer after i18 hits.
I personally find many ATs and builds capable of Farming as fast, or slower then a Fire/Kin, but to me, dont care if im slower.As long as I can still farm without being a common Farming build.
Villian Side ill be farming with a Elec/Dark/Mace Corruptor, and Prolly a Stalker of the Elec/Elec type to farm with as well for red side.
I will be Farming with a FA/FM/Pyre Tanker and Tank TFs with a Spines/Invln Scrapper.*Shrugs*
Theres alot more to this game then people will look into for many diffrent things.
You could easly Farm on a Plant/Rad Controller, or a Fire/Rad Controller rather fast without having to take a /Kin secondary.I perfered my Cold/Ice Defender for Hero Side Solo and Farming, but im going to rebuild it into a Corruptor simply because Scourge will make it a little faster.
I refuse to make a Fire/Kin and I never have, never will.
I may end up making a Dark/Cold Corruptor for Farming, or a Cold/Dark Defender to farm with.Havnt decided yet.
Either way.Theres alot out there...good luck.
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lol
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker
Elec/Dark/Mace Corruptor Stalker of the Elec/Elec type Plant/Rad Controller Fire/Rad Controller Cold/Ice Defender Dark/Cold Corruptor Cold/Dark Defender |
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
To be fair, Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker was the original farming build back when people didn't know how to play controllers, and is still a top contender nowadays. Plant/Rad and Fire/Rad, while not being as fast as Fire/Kin, also rank fairly high up there in AoE destruction, while blowing Fire/Kin out of the water in other situations
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Originally Posted by macskull
lol
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Elec/SD/Pyre should measure up quite nicely, as should Fire/SD/Pyre.
The best thing about Fire/Kins is the fact that they can be set-up at practically no cost to be very effective against a chosen type of enemies.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
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Thank you for pointing that out Silverado, but dont pay too much mind to Macskull.He tends to follow me around trying to get a reaction from me.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
To be fair, Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker was the original farming build back when people didn't know how to play controllers, and is still a top contender nowadays. Plant/Rad and Fire/Rad, while not being as fast as Fire/Kin, also rank fairly high up there in AoE destruction, while blowing Fire/Kin out of the water in other situations
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Oh I'm not defending you, I'm just advocating for the capabilities of those builds. |
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Thank you for pointing that out Silverado, but dont pay too much mind to Macskull.He tends to follow me around trying to get a reaction from me.
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macskull is right most of the times, and you are almost always wrong (intentionally to get a reaction out of everyone else? seems so)
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*shrugs*|
Originally Posted by Silverado
Oh I'm not defending you, I'm just advocating for the capabilities of those builds.
macskull is right most of the times, and you are almost always wrong (intentionally to get a reaction out of everyone else? seems so) |
I still said thank you either way, reguardless if you wanna throw dirt.
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I'm aware of the damage Fire/Fire/Pyre can put out, but as he was including villains in his list I thought it odd to mention a Tanker when the same Brute would be that much more efficient. Regarding the Plant/Rad and Fire/Rad... they're good builds and I'm not going to debate that, but they lack the +damage to farm quickly and efficiently. AM's damage bonus combined with Enervating Field is still far less total damage increase than you'll get at the damage cap.
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Originally Posted by Silverado
To be fair, Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker was the original farming build back when people didn't know how to play controllers, and is still a top contender nowadays. Plant/Rad and Fire/Rad, while not being as fast as Fire/Kin, also rank fairly high up there in AoE destruction, while blowing Fire/Kin out of the water in other situations
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sprite Fire
plant kin does more damage with it's holds then fire kin (Carrion Vines are godly) ... though a well made fire kin will out damage it thanks to it's damage auras, and fire being less resisted in comparison to s/l
i'd say an Electric Melee/ Shield Defense Scrapper probably could challenge one, but that's only until i18, when they nerf shield charge. not much else in that class though; pretty much everything else... including the stuff listed thus far in this thread are clearly 2nd or 3rd tier to an El/SD, Plant/Kin, fire/kin in that 2nd teir you have some good choices like spines + electric/fire/dark scrappers... or maybe a brute or two... though generally it seems rare a brute can keep it's fury high enough to put it into this type of classification. |
So what is this nerf to shield charge you speak about?
Yeah I'd like to know, too. Shield Charge is getting a nerf?
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Search Castle's posts in the scrapper forum. He makes mention of how the power is supposed to work. Whether that is how the power will end up working or not remains to be seen, but it is a safe bet that when changed it will be significantly less powerful than it is now. Though in fairness, the power could be reduced considerably and still be very good.
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Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
Yeah I'd like to know, too. Shield Charge is getting a nerf?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Search Castle's posts in the scrapper forum. He makes mention of how the power is supposed to work. Whether that is how the power will end up working or not remains to be seen, but it is a safe bet that when changed it will be significantly less powerful than it is now. Though in fairness, the power could be reduced considerably and still be very good.
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I remember that thread. But I was more wondering about the person specifically mentioning a nerf for issue 18. If a nerf is coming, then so be it. Just wondering if there is something I've missed.
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There is no way to say for certain and abide by the rules to confirm whether or not i18 will include the changes to SC. So the person who said it would be i18 was either speculating or leaking info.|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
I remember that thread. But I was more wondering about the person specifically mentioning a nerf for issue 18. If a nerf is coming, then so be it. Just wondering if there is something I've missed.
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i18/GR is a major update so I expect major power changes to be included at that time. The absolute best time to tick off your customers is when you are distracting them with a pile of shiny. So if Castle can squeeze in the SC changes I would expect them to show up sooner rather than later myself.
Oh yeah, wasn't even thinking about closed beta when this got brought up. I was just thinking I somehow missed a massive thread with lots of people pissed off. Oh well, no biggie. I'll find out soon enough. For the time being I just won't spend my influence on new scrapper in case I gotta fix old one. Though this does make me wish I didn't decide to take a break a week before I got my loyalty badge(totally forgot about it when canceled sub).
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Yes, there was a massive thread with lots of people pissed off, but the nerf and reaction were buried within a larger thread that started out being about a different topic. What we know:|
Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Oh yeah, wasn't even thinking about closed beta when this got brought up. I was just thinking I somehow missed a massive thread with lots of people pissed off.
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1) The damage done by Shield Charge is much higher than that specified by Castle when he was designing the set.
2) Castle is unhappy with the relative damage levels of dark/shield and fire/shield.
What is almost certain:
1) Shield Charge will be adjusted in I18.
What we don't know:
1) The nature of the adjustment. The common rumor is that the damage at the point of impact will remain the same, while damage in the rest of the affected radius will be reduced.
2) What, if anything, will be done to reduce the damage done by dark/shield.
In terms of farming speed I'm aware that fire/kins are the go-to combo hands down. However, due to the overwhelming amount of them within Paragon City I've come to despise them. Is there a combo out there that can challenge the farming speed of the infamous fire/kin?
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