Blueside Hami Raid Poll

Just reading this reminded me how the strat itself hasn't changed much, but after raiding for quite a while, we've streamlined the teams so that so much support isn't necessary for teams like yellow taunt. Thankfully, this frees up spots for other ATs people might want to bring, even for evac-less raids.

I'm not sure if by this, you're implying that we've been using nukes all this while. As Cobalt said, blueside raids, even the 16 man raid held on Champion, were done without these. Redside, however, is different and has been using a strat involving bio nukes. (This is not to say that nukes are necessary for redside to be successful, but do help things along quite a bit depending on the version of the strat being used.) I just wanted to make that clear in case there was confusion.

What you said here implies that people post about raids for attention. Again, as Cobalt said, raids, along with just about every other event held for the Champion community, are posted on the forums to get the word out to people. We've been fortunate as a server to have a lot of people thinking up event ideas, whether it be PvP, Tanker Tuesdays, MS raids, MoTF nights, badge tours or whatever the case that we have a calendar to keep track of it all. I had someone tell me how impressed they were with our server calendar because they could find out exactly when everything was being hosted instead of sifting through pages of posts. On that note, I think if someone or a group of people accomplish something great, they should post about it. We have some amazingly talented players on this server, and personally I love to hear about other Champions kicking ***.

The 18 minute evac-less raid was done with no nukes, or 'gimmicks' other than people working together exceptionally well that night and having an ideal mix of ATs that happened to show up. Since the first evac-less raid we tried, we've continued to use it as a strat on a regular basis. Our times generally range from 20 to 30 mins from entry into the jello to merits/HOs. This is not unlike other servers. I'll use an example posted by someone on Guardian:

Since we've done more than one, that's why I took it to mean blueside raids in general. Apologies.

I found a better example for you in the Virtue forums if you'd like to take a look. It was conveniently posted yesterday in their main Hami thread. (I've checked in there before for more current information, but the last post was in 2009.)

They have a slightly different mito clearing strat than we use, but no mention of nukes in their strategy. From the people I've spoken to on Virtue, I was told that they pride themselves on not using nukes. Even when the green mito bug was out, they were able to complete raids without using nukes.

That's how I read it too. I've known Jim for a while and he's not the type of person to put down others. I know that of the raids of his I participated in, one was griefed and another was successful.

As for the topic at hand, yes I would like the Hami Raids to come back, but at a different time if possible because I'm usually not available at the time the previous raids were scheduled. I wouldn't mind leading a team if I'm availabe, as I already do that for the scheduled redside raids. But, I wouldn't want to lead any raids myself, too much micro managing for my tastes.

You should consider a career change, unless of course you are already being paid to be a smart ***.

Pretty sure I was specific.

Which would be an 8 minute difference between feasible and impossible. Pretty sure I have a decent amount of hami experience both old raid system and new system and 8 minutes is a very significant difference when talking about the new raid system regardless of the tactic used. Also pretty sure you are aware of my experience and also have enough common sense to know 8 minutes is a big difference based on your own experience so not sure why you felt the need to spread your joyous personality in my direction. Continue being sarcastic though, it makes the "Community" such a beautiful place.

Thank you Amy. Virtue raids are significantly different and I have attended a few. This strat is one I had not seen yet so ty for sharing.

20 - 12 = 8

Perhaps you should read again what I typed. But anyways.

1. Never make assumptions about my constitution if you DO NOT know me well enough by now, hero. I DID NOT take offense to anything posted. I just have a habit of being blunt and keeping it real with you or anyone else. Respect It!

2. You are wrong, there were several others that use the blue boards that haven’t mentioned anything to defend what I said (other than enforcer – who knows). We had a raid on Oct 26th, 2008 @5pm and that marked an era around the last time I would lead a raid in a good while. I have very clear reasons for why that is.

Not a problem – As I mentioned above regarding “very clear reasons” for not continuing with Hamidon raids was because of that farce. It annoyed me to NO END and I had enough with DRAMA!

I had been fully invested in FILM SCHOOL and wasn’t about to compromise my spare time dealing with nonsense. If my experience, knowledge and experience in the community isn’t appreciated over the 5 to 6 years I’ve contributed then I wasn’t going to allow ANY of those moments to further impact my time. I would only run RAIDS (including motherships – that came later as a hot point) upon request. I tend to think outside the BOX (yea, I said it!) and I continually explore the words of Back Alley Brawler when he posted “raids are not being run as INTENDED.”

So, the approaches I use aren’t from anything I’ve read (even if they have been tried before) because I have always pushed for an easier solution that accommodates the precious time of members of our community. There WAS an attempt that was perceived as an alleged GRIEF! It involved members of the former “TEAM WEB” but it was later resolved as a misunderstanding.

I called that raid and apologized for wasting everyone’s time – that wasn’t the no exit success raid w/out shivans or nukes that I made reference too. In fact, as my boo pointed out to me – It was during a test raid using a PEACEBRINGER with capped HP and insane +regen support that failed because of lack of cooperation with something new minus the alleged griefing situation.

You ask a question you already know the answer to. I’ve said this before (to many across the server) – I approached my raids after tons of personal preparation (because I care about EVERY individual’s PERSONAL time dedicated to helping see it through!). Wasting time and support is NOT my deal – and, those that really know me understand and will attest to this. I did not lead more after the alleged grief session for that reason. In addition, FILM SCHOOL had become my utmost priority – but once I had a handle on my schedule I noticed the rise of the “cool kids nation” and those that followed a set way of doing things or following other servers w/out considering options outside of the box.

That’s the zone I dwell in, man. I’m serious when I say that. I’m still hung up on what Brawler (and whoever else) has said, we are not “approaching Hamidon as intended.”

There is an easier and more efficient way that does not include gimmicks and tricks or exploits. (NOTE: IF ANYONE READS INTO THE LAST STATEMENT AS I’M PUTTING DOWN ANYONE THAT USES SUCH THINGS FOR THEIR WIN – I’LL SAY PERSONALLY THAT THAT FRAME OF THOUGHT IS ALONG THE LINES OF IDIOCY – so, DO NOT. Imply that I mean anything other than WHAT I POST or SAY!).

Nor, was there any specific point meant in me saying it other than to say that I APPROACHED HAMIDON SUCCESSFULLY w/out those factors. I’ll add that I would like to encourage more to think along the lines of dominating this TRIAL w/out the use of anything other than what was intended to succeed.

Why? Because newer players would benefit from that experience and in-game knowledge, which, increases their play skill, efficiency and reliability overall = fun factor x10. THAT is my POINT!

It is NOT a sign of “SENSELESS EGO STROKING” our members and former raid leaders have often gone to other servers to check out how they were doing things – MARUT included. You do remember “MARUT” don’t you? Even though he and a good few others back in the day approached and tested Hamidon raids before the revision – he had been given the moniker “FATHER OF HAMIDON” on Champion Server.

Though, many supported and contributed to successful raid findings (which, were NOT AVAILABLE) by devs – MARUT and many others later on – including Criticalkat – carried on the service to the Champion population to encourage others to lead and compromised countless hours of their time to host HAMIDON RAIDS for the benefit of the community at large.

In fact, she (criticalkat) is the one who first hit me up and said, “so, when are you going to run a Hamidon raid” and because of the bug she planted in my ear I did organize Hamidon Raids for quite a while – and most successfully. I did encounter a couple of losses here and there but I retain a 97% WIN with Hamidon raids. EVEN MARUT has had his share of losses and that’s all part of the equation with expanding on new IDEAS and trying new things MOST people aren’t considering.


Celestial Lord
Actually, it was back in 2008 – 2009 October 26th. The problem with Gulliver’s Reign is that it involved an initial team setup comprising of:

11 tanks (with Ranged Taunt)
8 emps (2 of these must have all emp powers recall and REZ) + (All else must have ranged Healz/REz)
3 kin (1 of these needs recall) + (others need flight) + (all need sb/density)
2 scrappers (flight preferred)
1 Targeter (flight)
1 Bubbler (holds)
1 Arrow (holds)
1 Dark (defender)
1 4 Controllers w/ aoe healing/buffs/debuffs (holds)

I had to organize a week or more in advance in order to get the players I networked with, who had the AT’s and powers specs I outlined in order for it to be a success on Oct, 26,2008. My POINT was that IT WORKED! And it ROCKED!
But, once again, IT IS NOT (according to brawler) how the raid was intended to be run. And to this day! WE STILL have not (allegedly) run HAMIDON RAIDS as easily (but challenging) as they were designed). So, that’s something I’m exploring and trying to run on test server so that our time on LIVE isn’t wasted if I’m the leader of a Hamidon Raid.

I also want it GRIEF proof when I return to it again. It won’t be what I’ve seen others do lately unless they’ve figured out the “correct format” according to devs. You’ll just have to respect that concept, C.L.

Amygdala
Agreed – it certainly was NOT my point!

Right, the raids were designed so that ANY A.T. could be used. There STILL has NOT been a solid strategy on approaching this challenge efficiently. There are wins (I take NOTHING FROM THAT) but there is a BETTER and more EFFICIENT way for our time – it just has to be explored.

You’re correct, however, the principle strategies have not changed much. That’s part of the problem – I’m testing new ideas soon and it won’t be based on what other servers have done or what we are currently incorporating with the Hamidon Trial. As I mentioned above – FILM SCHOOL is my priority but I will lead again soon.

There is NO confusion. I WAS NOT implying that NUKES were being used all this while - you forget that I had been to a couple of your raids? C'mon!

My response and purpose were to merely indicate that contrary to what I have read there were evac-less (I call them No-Exit) raids that failed – it, in fact, has been done successfully and without the use of tricks, gimmicks, exploits of any kind.

I was made aware more recently that ANOTHER server (s) had done a version of no-exit for some time. You have to remember that I DO NOT frequent boards (because of drama) and I DO NOT borrow IDEAS – and I do NOT play another players game. I PLAY MINE! And I play to what is consistently fun, endurable and productive for the community at large.

That is the core of United Heroes Brigade and the founder thereof.

It’s really not so complicated – trust me.


This is something I wholeheartedly agree with and it was well communicated, Amy. I am an advocate for all that you have posted in this paragraph. You know this personally – or, you SHOULD by now. Nevertheless, let’s not be delusional in thinking that some HAVE NEVER posted accomplishments for attention or acknowledgement in ANY forum. It DOES happen.

My statement about NOT POSTING things for attention is a personal choice – I DO NOT care to be recognized for my contributions to the community on any server. Individual experience are more important as we impact the server as practitioners (people interacting/helping PEOPLE) and we HOPE the end result if FUN and good memories to share ACROSS THE BOARD.

Members of the Brigade, past and present (with any sense) can never deny that this is something I have preached for the past 5 years of the guilds' life in CoX. The integrity of the UHB reflects on my own personal values and those that remain part of it are ONLY those people that the motto (Honor Before Glory) resonates with.

Yes, we have many amazing contributors on Champion server that have offered countless hours of their personal time towards teaming opportunities, contests and more. I have always commended that effort and initiative but NEVER at the expense of sustaining more important events in their lives.

My point in saying that is – no matter what effects we contribute here in our mmorpg medium – we MUST consistently support the personal development in those we impact through this genre. So, they are inspired to be and do better for themselves and contribute to the society around them.

When it’s all said and DONE… When the end of cox is near, we should all be looking back and saying, “wow, what a ride! I never wasted any moment of my precious time in life because I’ve learned new things and found great aspiration and encouragement among friends I may never meet in my lifetime. And we should say – “it was worth every penny.”

Honor Before Glory!
@Leader of the Brigade

<---- likes this

You would be wrong. A spade is a spade so lets call it a spade. I for one would never verbally put down some ones attempt at running a hami raid because whether it succeeds or not the fact they tried speaks volumes. I was at that raid and I was on vent. I was not privy to what Steele may have said or not said to Cherry in private but that raid not working had next to nothing to do with people not following directions. It had to do with lack of experience, nervousness, the team leads not being communicated with and to properly, the leader of the yellow taunt team that day not being able to get their team organized and more than anything her connection and lag making her binds either spam or lag in going off. People were following directions but when her lag and connection issues were sending out those directions and when she actually wanted them to do something was 2 different stories.
Just like I stated way earlier in this thread, people insinuating that a few people not following directions or doing their own thing impacts the success of the current raid system that much are wrong. It may slow the process down a bit but that is about it. These raids are not hard and I don't care how many times people say "year and a half" of running raids, that is not going to change that fact.

By the way. Your response right there is exactly why the "kool kids" term is being used. Yourself and a few others that have participated in helping run raids lately come across as extremely aggressive, possessive and cocky in your posts.

There are people in this thread posting that have ran raids on and off for THREE, FOUR , FIVE AND SIX YEARS giving their thoughts or opinions. You don't want your contribution of a year and half to be labeled as "not wanted or needed" if you had advice or opinions, what gives you the right then to belittle people with WAY more actual leadership experience than you? No need in answering that being you just showed you feel your contributions are more significant, wanted and needed than people before you.

I don't see aggressiveness in this thread from actual raid leaders. No sarcasm or asshattery from Amygdala, Cherry, LLewthor etc. That is what makes them good leaders though. Perhaps others could learn some humility too and realize tons of people across 11 servers past and present contributed to paving the way for the success of the recent raids on Champion. I KNOW my personal raid success was due to people like Marut, Blaze etc paving the way and figuring out the original systems and coming up with strategies. All I did was tweek them to make them a little better based on my leadership style. If anyone with more experience than me tried to offer me constructive opinions or criticism you can best believe I am going to listen and definitely not label their knowledge as "not wanted or needed". Having that attitude keeps you in a box and you never get better or grow or improve at anything. That is the difference between an actual leader and a follower though.

My point is that back in December 2009, you posted that you'd run "Gulliver's Reign" Hamidon raids shortly after the new year. It is now almost August 2010, and you have not.

Posted by Steel: I had to organize a week or more in advance in order to get the players I networked with, who had the AT’s and powers specs I outlined in order for it to be a success on Oct, 26,2008.


Due to his commitment towards work/school and the state of the Brigade was rolling into, I'm not surprised that his focus was elsewhere than leading a raid. Point being, Steel will not go out with an unprepared team just to satisfy you or others. Could you or anyone else not have done something similar dealing with "Gulliver's Reign"? I had believed that raids cold be led by anyone and not by a specific group or person. Someone could had stepped up and tried it for themselves, not rely on Steel only to do so.

"I'M THE TARGET! I'M THE TARGET! THE STALKER HAS SHARKS! AP...AP!!"
@Sepultura
‎'You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.'

I find this interesting. Correct me if im wrong, but, when the merit system was put into place didnt they base the merit reward on the difficulity / time involved of the task at hand? If im correct, that would tell me that babs expected hami to be much more difficult.. based sheerly on the merits given.. perhaps we, not champions per say, but hami raiding as a whole, has far exceeded what "was intended". I would think had babs had an idea how quickly, and relatively easy it is to take down hami, the merits wouldnt be as high as they are.

While I appluad your personal desire to uncrack babs hidden meaning and "what was intended" notion I think too much thought is being put into it... whats to say its not already been cracked? What if what we've all accomplished wasnt even on his radar at the time?


OY@ the team make up.. seriously made me scratch my head and say huh?

Of course any thing you take a week to plan, and put the perfect team together should be a success.. and again, who is to say we've not cracked or blown apart hamis "correct format"..

Using this as a reason (wantin to crack this mysterious hami code) to not run raids live, imo, is a bit of a cop out. Raiding is meant to be fun, not something that takes weeks and weeks of planning and putting together the perfect team to pull off some "as intended" raid.

We raid, on the fly, with whatever wanders into the zone, and we do it quicky and efficently and as a team.. providing everyone is on the same page, which 95% of the time they are.

This thread started out innocently enough and has turned into such ugliness that anyone that had wanted to step up and give it a shot at leading, wont, due to all the petty bickering...

Granted, it's Champion, and thats what we're known for.. but still.. even that excuse, IMO is wearing thin.. we dont always have to live up to our rep as the Drama Server.

You're funny thanks for that before I went to work.

My point was made to him and he knows what I am talking about no need repeating it for you.

You make a valid point about communication, it is very hard for the leads to get this information out to the team when they have people, whom you classify as having more experience than us sending them tells telling them we are doing it wrong and should be doing it another way. What causes confusion is when we have people on our teams asking us why am I getting this tell yatta yatta yatta.

While you may have been on vent you didn't have the full story, go pull out your history book for that night and I'll be sitting in the library, thanks.

the section I highlighted is a bit of a contradiction... so which is it? You need the perfect team, as you put it, or, can anyone do it, also, as you put it...

and im pretty sure no where in this thread did anyone say they were relying on steel to lead raids.. and im also pretty sure there have been numerous people that have in fact stepped up and led raids.. Celestial simply pointed out a post that steel made towards the end of last year

also.. this gullivers reign idea ive heard about...

its HIS idea.. why would anyone else step up and try an idea when they have no real knowledge or idea how to implement it?

Not that this point hasn't been made before, but I think it's worth highlighting again. You can replace Steel's name with anyone's and their situation and it still applies. I absolutely understand that RL takes priority and can mean less time for game related events. I absolutely agree that if people want to step up and try it for themselves, they should. And I wholeheartedly agree that raiders shouldn't rely on one person.

I know I've said it before, but let's not lose sight of the interest shown in this thread. The more people willing to step up, the less it means that one person or a group of people will be responsible for making regular raids happen, so when RL does come up for those people, it doesn't mean we have to take breaks.