Anyone else getting annoyed with Masters of runs?

I guess I've been lucky. All my MO attempts have been with people who realize that failure is a possibility, that even the best players screw up, and I've never had anyone jump down anyone's throat about dying.

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Originally Posted by ketch I agree with this sentiment. More so though, I think it applies to speed runs (which I have grown to despise). At least with a Master of... the leader will explain why one person is going ahead alone so that other teammates avoid following them to their demise. Speed runners generally don't care if you're lying on your face while they finish the mission objectives. Speed runs also have a tendency to integrate themselves into otherwise normal runs. It hasn't been uncommon for a normal LGTF or ITF to be changed to the speed variety by a single member's suggestion.

You've pretty much summed up why I despise speed runs.

First off, I'll point to this thread on the forums that runs a similar parallel to this thread entitled...
"Why so much hate about the Mo Badges?"
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=222348

But there can be annoyances associated with master runs. I agree with the OP that it should be explicitly stated as a master run so that all are in complete understanding of the goal of the team. (Which usually is to obtain that master of badge). It will give folks a chance to bow out or be talked into staying.

I can honestly say that I will feel more comfortable even in a PuG master run if someone takes charge when it comes to instructions and getting everybody on the same page. Its one of the reasons why I still PuG at times because there's plenty of folks I haven't grouped with and I may learn something new. I like to expand my global list of friends (or rather have more resources available to me when I choose to put my own master tfs together )

In all honesty, the more I run master tfs the more I begin to see a melding of caution and speed. Folks will get more proficient if they regularly run. Now I know it doesn't help those who don't have nearly as much time as others. This is where a tf leader can differentiate him/herself from average joe tf leader....by providing instructions/guidance in the flow of the tf as to what will happen and what to expect. Not every tf leader is the same as I have found out heh heh.

Deaths do happen even with experienced teams but the merits are still good. Hopefully, as part of the process, the tf leader will keep positive and just maybe, continue to run the rest of the tf as a master run 'for practice'. In this way, anybody on the team continues to get exposure to tried/true methods for 'winning' on a Master of run. This of course, is dependent on the rest of the teams agreement. Just have to get it next time.

None of my characters have been on a 'Master of...' run. My Kin/ is an aggro-magnet and I'm usually shocked when she doesn't die. My Ill/Emp has better survivability. But any time I get on a TF with SG members or people I know, that I don't normally team with, and I know that they are TF machines, I ASK if it's a 'Mo...'.

I'm pretty sure they'd mention it before hand, but that's not something I like to assume, as I definitely would want to be the cause of a failed 'Mo...'.

In the future, when my top character's have better survivability, then I'd like to be in on some 'Masters of...' action, but not until they are ready.

Kudos to the people that can do it without breaking a sweat, and to the folks that for them it truly is a trial yet they persevere and succeed.

I've done spare of the moment Master Of runs, with PuGs, I just make the following clear...

If someone dies the plan is to just keep going (now if it happens ont he first mission, we've started over, but once it hits the second we've just kept rolling along)

You don't need temp powers to beat any of the TFs. So the lose of those temp powers you crafted/earned isn't a big deal. Save them for the next TF.

And dying on purpose is just poor, sad, pitiful playing on the players part when they do that.

Of course it's poor, sad, pitiful playing on the players part who just quits the TF because the attempt wasn't successful.

It failed. So what? Keep going and finish and collect those merits.

Would love to attempt one but i feel that the only one of my toons who would stand a chance is my ill/rad controller, however when on a support type of character i have always had the game style of helping the others survive before my own well being, which would result me in dying and being the one kicked

Thus, i have never even attempted one

If you play through every TF you do, whether Mo or not, with the goal of not dying, yet contributing and not just standing there, the pressure to play a different way to avoid being the first one to die is lessened greatly. You're already playing the way you normally do, just without temps.

Play within your chosen character's abilities and avoid the obvious situations where you know you'll probably die, and chances are very good that some other poor schmuck will be the first one to faceplant.

Mo's really aren't that hard when you play smart. You just have to go a bit slower and know your team.

To me the temp powers are not a huge issue just a minor annoyance. I carry around a bunch and have regular missions or TFs where I barely touch them. Some that do hinder a bit include Assemble the team (VET reward) since now a team with nothing but us "old" vets just lost the ability to TP. If the Leader didn't manage to grab someone with recall friend no one is teleporting anywhere. Mission Teleporter (Pack) is another and for very similar reasons now I'm zoning to that ONE mission that may be in another zone. On the Lady Grey I mentioned the first words out of our Brutes mouth once we started were 'Hey I lost Ninja Run" /em sighs deeply .. apparently to maximize his build he hadn't take any travel power and just used that to get around quickly.

I think the big thing is the LACK of communication. Some of these leaders have done So many MO runs now that they automatically assume that EVERYONE knows how to do one and never reveal any strategy or the reason behind it. I did a LRSF like this and couldn't help but wonder why my 50 level Crab, with IOS in every slot and all sort of defense, was hiding away while 2 Brutes did all the work. I did a MoSTF a long time ago that was the same way. I'm sure the LEADER knew why we were doing this or that but never bothered to let anyone on the team know what to do or the reason behind it. I don't need a 20 minutes detailed explanation but at least tell me what your plan is and why it works! lol

My Crab is my Badger on COV and At this point she needs a Sucessful LRSF and one more Respec trial to have pretty much every available Accomplishment badge aside from master of runs.. and YES I know respec badges show up under Accolades not Accomplishments(hehe). All I want is a normal LRSF which itself is pretty challenging but it seems like more and more all of the attempts are Masters runs. I don't feel comfortable enough with that SF yet to try and build a team of my own since I have never been on a successful one YET! I WILL keep trying though till I get that badge LOL

Master of runs are fine. The problem is that the TF teaming mechanism sucks. Trying just in case is fine, but after a fail you have to restart just to do it normally.

What it needs to work better in this case is a way to turn temp powers back on without restarting.

In addition, there should be a way to add teammates (for no rewards) if somebody quits (not if they log or are kicked from team), and restart without rerecruiting the teams. The reason that is important is that the TF mechanism is now used for things dramatically different than its purpose. Specifically, this is key to solving RSF ragequits, making ouro viable for teaming rather than just solo, and MA accessibility.

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The only thing irritating about Master runs is when some fathead noob fill on the team decides to start spamming team chat about how he thinks it should be a Master run when the call for players clearly stated the intent was speed or whatever else.

Actually I prefer Mo runs to speed runs. Seems there is a bigger since of accomplishment of doing a TF/SF with no temp powers and no deaths.

I'm more annoyed by the unadvertised Speed Runs, the TFs where the leader just assumes that everyone speeds TFs no matter what and then acts surprised when the team is trying to steamroll the first mission while he's running off to TP people to the end. Then he gets even more surprised that the sub-50's he invited actually want the XP that he's trying to make them skip and quit out of frustration.

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Originally Posted by Cyberknight Had a very similar experience on LGTF the other week, i was on a lvl 50 troller slotted with mid expense IO sets to get perma hasten and got an invite so i went along. The tank was continually cursing at people and was annoyed when the hostage did not die on the 1st mission and he faceplanted with the clock king. The 2 starter members obviously had a plan yet did not bother to tell anyone else, just moaned a lot if thing did not go to their plan,then after the 1 st mission completes they decide to restart for some reason?. I left leaving their granite tank on go -slow mode

Yep, been there. Even better when the two guys are obviously on teamspeak the entire time and never communicate with the rest of them team.

i dont mind MO runs but i wish powers that listed as inherents are not counted in the temp powers

mish tp, base tp, pocket d tp, ninja run, vet attacks are ALL inherent powers according to where they are listed

if its not in the temporary section, then it shouldnt be counted as a temporary power

What's even more annoying is when the leader informs the team "Everyone fights in this TF!" but then you all enter the first mission and are right away told to stand at the door while someone stealths the map. Yeah, we're all doing so much fighting...

It's even worse than the old days when the team isn't allowed to do anything, not even the scrappers, because the Tank has to go and herd up the every spawn in the entire room, and do that for EVERY room.