How Many Villains Skip Grandville and/or the Patron Arcs?
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2010-06-18 19:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by Kelenar
I'm not fond of patron arcs. Most of my characters want to be villains in their own right, not prove themselves in Arachnos.
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It's been mentioned several times already, but I'll put I'll down again.
At the completion of your patron's entire arc you will have:
- Betrayed your Patron and foiled the plans they hold dearest.
- Defeated your patron in combat.
- Defeated future Lord Recluse in combat, and brought him back his own helment as proof of your power and stature.
From an RP standpoint, not completing the arcs sees you as remaining a lackey forever.
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And from an RP standpoint, there's no good reason for many of my characters to start working for a patron in the first place. By level 40, you can have robbed dozens of banks, potentially made an army of clones of yourself, beaten up members of the Freedom Phalanx and the Vindicators, stolen gazillions of artifacts and technological doodads, gotten in on the ground floor of freeing an alien god, and gotten cruise missiles to your name. Why do you suddenly need to turn around and play second fiddle to one of Recluse's lieutenants for five levels?|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
It's been mentioned several times already, but I'll put I'll down again.
At the completion of your patron's entire arc you will have:
From an RP standpoint, not completing the arcs sees you as remaining a lackey forever. |
As an aside, I hate how you finally get Recluse to admit that you're no longer under his heel... around level 49, just in time for the canonical game to end. I'd really prefer that it happen around level 35, and the higher-level content show you starting to grow in power enough to be a world-shaking villain in your own right.
I'd also point out that when you betray your patron, it's by order of Arachnos. Of course, since you're strong enough to beat up any of the patrons by that point, it doesn't really make much sense why Arachnos is able to strong-arm you into doing that, but hey.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
Lord Recluse is a end game character, do you really expect your underdeveloped character to have any pull at lv35?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrjwa...os=a3EBdRNtnLQ| And from an RP standpoint, there's no good reason for many of my characters to start working for a patron in the first plac |
Since when is learning secrets and stealing power not a good reason?
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My thoughts exactly, until I upped the font size from 100% to 113% (at 1680x1050 on a 22"), which made it look not just bigger but also better somehow. That said, it didn't do anything to improve the writing.
| I never really payed a lot of attention to the "story" in hero or villain arcs to be honest. To me they come across like this: [wall of text] .... fighting .... [wall of text]. There is an awful lot of telling and not a lot of showing, and--this may sound weird--something about the font in this game makes me not want to read. |
I'm the other way. I stay Grandville and rarely go to the RWZ.
Probably going to stay that way at least until I get a villain, that I don't plan on taking any of the PPPs with, high enough in level.
Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.
good luck D.B.B.
I do the patron arcs, mostly. I like access to the PP pools more than for the arcs. Havent done them all yet though.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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It's not so much that I expect them to be able to make Recluse shake in his boots at level 35 as it is that I'd like to play villains. Not henchmen or mercenaries, but the things the box promises. Characters who have their own schemes and plots to sow (terror/chaos/despair - circle one) across Paragon, not beating up ghosts because Black Scorpion wants to pimp out his armor. By the late game, at least, it would be nice if characters had a chance to be powerful in their own right, instead of 'well, maybe if I work for Powerful Guy #36, I can learn something! If that fails, I'll work for the exterminator, I guess.'|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Lord Recluse is a end game character, do you really expect your underdeveloped character to have any pull at lv35?
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| Since when is learning secrets and stealing power not a good reason? |
I realize none of this will ever happen and it's just a big pile of kvetching, but still. I came into CoV wanting to play Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor and mostly got to start gang wars for clowns, get pushed around by punks, and help people collect interesting rocks.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
I never skip Grandville or the Patron arcs.
I enjoy the patrons' concept though the implementation is a bit annoying.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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that just goes to show how good the "fighting" part is in this game.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
[wall of text] .... fighting .... [wall of text]
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my 1st time through on hero side i read through maybe 2 contacts. the "fighting" was enough of a game that i didnt need story and back then there were tons of people playing all using powers id never seen before so it was all new. i still dont know half the stories but i have an idea of why zones exist etc...
when villains came out i already knew how the game worked so i had time to read and enjoy other parts of the game. my 1st villain was a hardcore badger that did every contact while leveling and mostly solo'd.
when i7 came out with its carbon copy ppps, insanely difficult rsf, and laggy grandville i think alot of people just dismissed it all and went back to heroes, never to return.
also, you should remember that i7 and all the gv/ppp arcs came out 10 issues ago so most people have done them already, repeatedly since some of them are almost required. all the new people who see the older players all in rwz or ae will simply go with the crowd rather than the mostly empty zone their level range was originally intended to go to.
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Why play the role of a lackey for 5 levels? If you think at lvl 40 you can beat, the 4 patrons, the 4 semi-patrons and Lord Recluse, all at once, then by all mean do so. I'll even make the AE arc. =) If you went to confront Lord Recluse, that's what would happen. Not to mention the 4 AVs in STF (the mission aeon gloats about the plan), Arbiter Sands, Nocturne and Dr Aeon. You'd have to go through his entire army. Instead of being allowed anywhere in the tower because you are now a patron.|
Originally Posted by Kelenar
And from an RP standpoint, there's no good reason for many of my characters to start working for a patron in the first place. By level 40, you can have robbed dozens of banks, potentially made an army of clones of yourself, beaten up members of the Freedom Phalanx and the Vindicators, stolen gazillions of artifacts and technological doodads, gotten in on the ground floor of freeing an alien god, and gotten cruise missiles to your name. Why do you suddenly need to turn around and play second fiddle to one of Recluse's lieutenants for five levels?
As an aside, I hate how you finally get Recluse to admit that you're no longer under his heel... around level 49, just in time for the canonical game to end. I'd really prefer that it happen around level 35, and the higher-level content show you starting to grow in power enough to be a world-shaking villain in your own right. |
Around lvl 49? I'm always done with that around 45-46. It's the first arc i do, since i enjoy the story.
For the OP
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| it's because I don't like the idea of my 40ish villains being treated like they were still level 1 errand boys. |
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
I kind of despise the patron arcs, not because of the story or the gameplay, but unlocking the powersets usually puts you in the position of either choosing a power that's completely inappropriate for your toon concept, or accept having an inferior attack chain.
I mean, how many toons is Gloom really right for? Not most of the ones I create. Same with most of the useful powers.
I don't find this to be as much as a problem heroside with APPs because the sets have a pretty good balance, meaning there's usually something there that fits your toon concept, plus a lot of blue classes don't suffer at all without APPs, whereas villains are simply worse, for the most part, without the unlocked powersets.
I tried a couple of the patrons, but I don't bother with them any more. Each patron has four arcs, and every arc ends in a non-droppable elite boss fight. I consider the patrons to be team-oriented content, and since I solo all the time these days, I avoid them.
I'm not all that fond of Grandville either, for a variety of reasons, but at least I can drop or fail almost all of the non-Patron EB fight missions in the 40s if I need to. (Dr. Forrester's fight against Silver Mantis is the exception.)
Must say I've only ever rushed through a patron arc on each of my 3 villain 50s to get access to the pools. Not done any of their other missions or any of the other missions in Grandville. Cant be bothered when I could just join an ITF and have fun steamrolling things (which is infact how they all got to 50).
Both my 50 level Thugs MM and my 50 level Soa Crab did their Patron arc to gain acces to Patron powers. My MM did not complete ALL of the arcs and just did the first to get her patron powers but my Crab completed every arc for the opportunity to battle Lord Recluse and then, as a Destined One, the chance to take out Statesman. My crab did not, however, take a single patron power opting instead to add even more of the great powers available through her own powersets. My Patron was Mako and along the way through the arcs I got to battle Mako himself, Calystix, Doc Aeon (twice) and finally Lord Recluse himself so I'd hardly call it a boring experience. Other arc from other contacts in Grandville allowed me to battle Synapse, Mynx and even the entire Vidicator's team (Mynx, Luminary, Valkyrie and Ms. Liberty). I've taken down both Indigo and Crimson and even a 50 level version of Stheno leading a much more powerful version of the snakes found in Mercy. Of course she's also done mission in the RWZ and Cimerora and currently needs a successful Lord Recluse SF to have done every available SF/TF a villain can join.
I enjoyed the missions and never once felt like I was an errand girl as I blasted my way to the top of Arachnos .. hehehe after I kicked his Butt in the future Lord Recluse offered me a new job to ensure I stayed loyal and didn't betray him. Hey there are thousands of ways to level in the game and none is better or worse than the other so do what you enjoy! :-D
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Oh I should have mentioned that either through regular contacts or time travel I have done just about every arc available between 45-50 and and working on finishing the last missions in the RWZ and Cimerora along with one LAST mission from Vernon Von Grun. Tessa is my Red Side Badger and I've managed to do just about everything possible at least once with including Hami and Mothership raids.
I never looked at any of the content as being sent on an errand I was doing a contact a favor and helping them with a situation no one else could handle. In the process I earned the respect and a considerable number of "favors earned" from all of them. My lowly little Wolf Spider has risen from a foot soldier to the very equal of Recluse himself and has a network of contacts she can rely on if she wants anything. Sounds like a very ambitious and villianous character to me. :-D
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
IMO, Ghost Widow and Scirroco have good arcs. I've done two of Black Scorpion's and one of Mako's-- and they don't impress me all that much.
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That would be because both Mako and Scorpy have crappy arcs. The fonts in Mako's arc and the NO XP Elite boss Mole machines that go boom in Scorpion's suck any fun out of those in my opinion.
As far as skipping Grandville or Patron arcs in general, not on your life. I waited too long for that darn zone and the powers that come from the Patrons. Wheter I finish the whole thing is a completely different matter. Mostly, I finish the first one so that I can get my free respec and unlock the pools.
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
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That quote kind of says it all. Glad you're happy, but I didn't create a character as a lowly wolf spider and really have no interest in playing one, no interest in advancing up in Arachnos, and no interest in using Arachnos powers that don't fit my toon.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
My lowly little Wolf Spider has risen from a foot soldier to the very equal of Recluse himself
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My memory is going, but I'm pretty sure that I purchased City of Villains, not City of Arachnos.
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I was going to say that myself
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Skip a free respec?
Skip a shield for squishies? Skip a ranged attack for melee? Even if it is the only patron attack you take, gloom is the highest DPA attack for a brute outside of Seismic Smash. Sorry but for the story on each of those you end up betraying your patron and kicking the crap out of them. So what arc in RWZ lets you do that and be even more evil? |
Post Comic book Fan Films that ROCK!
Fight my brute
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Not me.
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Originally Posted by BlueBattler
How many other people do the same thing?
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Well the nice thing about the game is you can do or be whatever you like so whatever makes you happy and content go with. I will add that not trying out a Soldier of Arachnos is denying yourself one of the most fun AT I have encountered in over 4 and a half years. My Crab is set up as a ranged attack specialist the only Melee attacks she owns are Air Superiority and Sands of Mu. Everything else is ranges with lots of AoE. Thanks to numerous Accolades she has the hit points comparable to my Scrappers on COH. So I basically have a character that does about the same damage as a Blaster, has the hit points of a Scrapper, Defenses that some Tankers would envy and two sets of pets (3 Spiderlings and 2 Disruptors) which I have enhanced with Recharges so I can always have at least one set out adding to my damage output. The Omega Manuever gives me a Mini Nuke that doesn't completely drain my end every time I use it and I have THAT enhanced so it is available every 3 minutes or so. |
Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
That quote kind of says it all. Glad you're happy, but I didn't create a character as a lowly wolf spider and really have no interest in playing one, no interest in advancing up in Arachnos, and no interest in using Arachnos powers that don't fit my toon.
My memory is going, but I'm pretty sure that I purchased City of Villains, not City of Arachnos. |
She solos very well and is welcome addition to any team since her defences extend to anyone of the team that stays with 60-80 yards of her . ( I forget which right now and am not in game ATM). Now if being a pawn of Arachnos bothers you consider her profile.. In that I state that she is actually a member, a leader, of a crime syndicate and uses her position within Arachnos to be obtain information that benefits that group. She may run missions that contacts ask her to help out with but she sends back intelligence to her cohorts allowing them prosper and grow in strength under the very nose of Recluse and his minions. Hey keep in mind Going Rogue is due in less than two months and she will definately break away from Arachnos and become a Rogue do what SHE wants both in the Rogue Isles and Paragon City. If it helps you at all even during the Patron Arcs where Arachnos orders/threatens a character to betray their Patron there is always a choice. I could easily have said No thanks and simply escaped Grandville and done whatever I wanted.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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Not sure how you do math but you are wrong.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
Except that it's not. It's up there, but there are several other attacks with better DPA - Gloom isn't even in the top 5.
More specifically, Clobber, Energy Transfer, Knockout Blow, and Incinerate fill in the rest of the top 5 - Gloom is #6, meaning that it's probably going to be one of the best attacks you could fit in your chain, assuming you don't have redraw to worry about (in which case the redraw can hurt your chain more than Gloom helps). |
Yes you are right about Clobber. I forgot about the upgrade as I have not played WM, and now Clobber has DPA of 92.27.
DPA for ET is 68.61
DPA for KO Blow is 66.18
DPA for Incinerate is 60.78
DPA for Gloom is 71.04
In what world is 71.04 lower than 68.61?
The only time KO Blow beats Gloom is if you factor in rage on KO blow but not on Gloom. That is a bit inaccurate since if you have KO Blow you will probably also have rage and rage is not selective in the powers that it enhances. The only time ET beats Gloom is if you factor in self damage. Not exactly accurate there either. The only time Incinerate beats Gloom is in some fantasy world where 60 comes after 70.
So Gloom is number 3 on the list of attack powers for brute not number 2. I was one off, sorry about that.
All DPA numbers are based off Arcanatime with the actual damage numbers, not including the damage ET does to yourself.
edit cuz i cant speel gud
I go back to Grandville to do my patron arc, then leave for RWZ/Cimerora. Done all the content and most of the time don't have the urge to repeat contacts.