Additional Enhancement tray after Respec
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-16 13:20 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
When implementing the respec system, the Devs thought about it, and considered that even letting you keep 10 SOs was generous.
It ain't gonna happen, but thanks for this week's quota of the suggestion.
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And before anyone brings it up, the quote about 10 being generous was stated both before AND after IOs were released.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
When implementing the respec system, the Devs thought about it, and considered that even letting you keep 10 SOs was generous.
It ain't gonna happen, but thanks for this week's quota of the suggestion. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
In before Dechs or Aett posts....ARGGGGGHHHH!!!!!
EDIT - DOH! Forgot about the black hole IOs. Will put in sig so I don't forget.
You could get behind this idea if interested.
Its pretty obviously NOT that easy when you take two seconds to think about it. Where does this magical second tray go once the respec is over? Because if you havent noticed, you never have more than 10 enhancement slots open to you. So that means there would be a timer on this magically appearing enhancement slot, right? That brings in a whole bunch of issues.
I am not apposed to the idea though. Especially with situations like the BotZ change (lets just make sure no more of those "fixes" happen, devs) it seems necessary to need more than 10 spots. Maybe a way to implement this would be a new SG base item that one could respec at, but this item also allowed them to store some enhances, or allowed the player to store enhances in regular enhancement bins.
EDIT: "Zero" IO idea is primey.
I was going to throw out a "Dump to SG Storage" option if your base has enough open storage, but that could prove very problematic in a variety of ways, lol
I just want to be able to keep the power tray order the same after a respec (where possible). Wouldn't it be nice to just have to move the few extra powers you respec'd into rather than every power and every temp?*
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Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
I just want to be able to keep the power tray order the same after a respec (where possible). Wouldn't it be nice to just have to move the few extra powers you respec'd into rather than every power and every temp?*
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* /cleartray helps a little in terms of giving you a blank canvas and removing the 4 different sprints and the like that the Respec decides are your most important powers. It would be nice for the system to remember the tray slot for powers you kept though.
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Did you pay attention when you slotted those enhancements? You know, before you turned off the prompt that pops up. Did you actually READ the prompt before you closed it? |
Originally Posted by phenom44
The title pretty much says it all.
I often find myself having to discard significant enhancements when doing a respec due to there being no room for me to keep them. I think with all of the changes that COH has endured over its tenure, it is time to upgrade this area of the user features. It is a very simple addition as well....Simply copy and add another tray below the current tray provided after completing respec. (no 6 month wait or programming red tape). Additioinal benefits would be players having to spend less influence at WW due to keeping usually discarded enh. Allowing them to potentiallly earn more influence with having saved more enhancements, which in turn may have a positive impact on the overpriced WW market. No brainer to me folks/devs. Let's do it. Every player would not have a problem with this for it has or creates no detriments. Thx |
It says "This enhancement will be LOCKED into this power. Do you wish to proceed?"
Enhancements are intended to be permanent, which is why the devs have said (on a few occasions) that allowing us to keep 10 is being generous.
Also, do you do any kind of programming with the exact game engine and tools the developers use? I doubt you do. Until you DO work with the devs' tools you have no way of knowing how easy something is or isn't. Various devs have told us over the years that a lot of things that sound like they'd be easy to do are actually very complicated and time consuming. You make it sound like the entire game is a copy/paste Microsoft Word file. It's not.
You're right about it being a no-brainer though.....just not in the way that you meant.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
None of us really knows how easy or hard this is to do. That includes the OP but also the folks responding to him.
My first concern would be whether character data is capable of saving more than 10 enhancements in inventory. Depending on how data is saved it may or may not be an issue. While I would hope it's programmed to extend with the size of the inventory, it doesn't mean it's necessarily done that way. Also, character data (or certain portions of it) may be limited to a specific file size above and beyond the number of "slots" available. If that's the case adding more slots would probably be very taxing.
Whether keeping 10 is "generous" or not is a matter of opinion. Even if a GM said they thought it was, all it reflects on is their willingness to make a change, not the validity of the player's desires. The number 10 is an arbitrary reflection of what they believe to be the reasonable threshold. The GMs also have opinions on whether certain powers are balanced, but this doesn't mean players can't (or shouldn't) disagree.
The fact that this topic has come up before also doesn't mean the OP is totally in the wrong. Topics that come up repeatedly do so because they reflect what many people are thinking. While they may not always be good ideas, they aren't automatically invalid just because a lot of people talk about it, or it was talked about in a previous discussion.
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Never said I knew whether it was easy or not either, Tex. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
None of us really knows how easy or hard this is to do. That includes the OP but also the folks responding to him.
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All I said was it almost certainly isn't as easy as a copy/paste like the OP seems to be saying.
I've asked BaBs and Castle both about some things that I thought should be fairly easy to implement, and have goten a variety of responses. Most of the time, it wasn't as easy as I was thinking.
One time it WAS as easy as I was thinking, but my idea would take up too much CPU processing power and wasn't something Castle would allow players to have (my idea was a damage reflection IO for a Resistance set, you take melee damage and damage is dealt to the enemy that damaged you. It's feasible, but Castle said no
. But, at least I put the idea in is head in case he ever changes his mind about it.)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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first off, they are called devs, not GM's. GM stand for game manager/monitor while dev stands for developer/people who make the decissions. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
None of us really knows how easy or hard this is to do. That includes the OP but also the folks responding to him.
My first concern would be whether character data is capable of saving more than 10 enhancements in inventory. Depending on how data is saved it may or may not be an issue. While I would hope it's programmed to extend with the size of the inventory, it doesn't mean it's necessarily done that way. Also, character data (or certain portions of it) may be limited to a specific file size above and beyond the number of "slots" available. If that's the case adding more slots would probably be very taxing. Whether keeping 10 is "generous" or not is a matter of opinion. Even if a GM said they thought it was, all it reflects on is their willingness to make a change, not the validity of the player's desires. The number 10 is an arbitrary reflection of what they believe to be the reasonable threshold. The GMs also have opinions on whether certain powers are balanced, but this doesn't mean players can't (or shouldn't) disagree. The fact that this topic has come up before also doesn't mean the OP is totally in the wrong. Topics that come up repeatedly do so because they reflect what many people are thinking. While they may not always be good ideas, they aren't automatically invalid just because a lot of people talk about it, or it was talked about in a previous discussion. |
second, do you see the word at the top of the screen between new posts and quick links? it is search. there is a sticky on every section about how to search first before posting. that way topics like this do not get posted umpteen times a week.
Meh, I can live with the 10 enhancement max, though I wish it were larger, but I really wish they could change the respec interface to work more like the dynamic mode used in Mids instead of having to "pick power, place two slots, pick power, place two slots" which is really tedious when doing a respec at level 50.
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
first off, they are called devs, not GM's. GM stand for game manager/monitor while dev stands for developer/people who make the decissions.
second, do you see the word at the top of the screen between new posts and quick links? it is search. there is a sticky on every section about how to search first before posting. that way topics like this do not get posted umpteen times a week. |
GM ("Game Master," usually) is an all purpose term that is used when referring to gaming in general.
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Yeah! We need to save room on the servers for pictures of funny cats.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
It is search. there is a sticky on every section about how to search first before posting. that way topics like this do not get posted umpteen times a week.
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Huh? |
Originally Posted by Fomsie
Meh, I can live with the 10 enhancement max, though I wish it were larger, but I really wish they could change the respec interface to work more like the dynamic mode used in Mids instead of having to "pick power, place two slots, pick power, place two slots" which is really tedious when doing a respec at level 50.
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In every respec I've ever done, you pick all your powers, and then allocate slots. Sure, you have to place slots at appropriate levels, but it's not really that big of a deal if you have a good idea where they are going.
The only time you have to pick powers and place two slots is when you're doing a second build.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Hadn't had coffee yet, left out "when doing multiple respecs". in reference to getting more than 10 IOs back.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Huh?
In every respec I've ever done, you pick all your powers, and then allocate slots. Sure, you have to place slots at appropriate levels, but it's not really that big of a deal if you have a good idea where they are going. The only time you have to pick powers and place two slots is when you're doing a second build. |
Edit: Still though, the respec interface is tedious, select what you want then hit ok, then select next and so on... and if you mess up, you have to back pedal through everything :P Not that I misplace slots or powers mind you... >.>
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
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Standard Code Rant applies.
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Originally Posted by phenom44
It is a very simple addition as well....Simply copy and add another tray below the current tray provided after completing respec. (no 6 month wait or programming red tape).
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I wanted to pull this out because no one had responded to it yet.|
Originally Posted by phenom44
Every player would not have a problem with this for it has or creates no detriments.
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There is a detriment. Enhancements are are the only reliable influence sink in the game. The more influence available to those who know how to play the market mini game, the more expensive those recipes, enhancements and salvage will become.
If you are a player who has trouble generating gobs of influence and cannot afford most of the items you want on the market, this suggestion will only make the problem worse (those who know how to work the market will thank you for the extra monies, though),
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I dont see why, more supply would alleviate the pressure of high demand. It should, if anything, make the market cheaper. I dont know if I buy in on the inflation truly raising prices in the game. Most people I know with large sums of inf still bargain buy. You arent going to give someone 10 bucks for a 5 dollar burger just because you have the extra 5 bucks, right?
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Originally Posted by Lightfoot
I wanted to pull this out because no one had responded to it yet.
There is a detriment. Enhancements are are the only reliable influence sink in the game. The more influence available to those who know how to play the market mini game, the more expensive those recipes, enhancements and salvage will become. |
I was going to respond to a couple of over the top sarcastic responses, but overall someone else already has. I must admit, I was unaware that this was addressed before. That's on me.
I do like the blackhole slotting for the most part, but again, some of the responses remind me of nothing more than bickering over crumbs left by the king.
With that said, what does set a unbelievable tone and jumps out is how obedient most of you are to what the devs tell you they are,will, can and want to do for you. YOU are paying their salaries. If YOU really want to get an idea approved. Present it and gain support from a high percentage of the players (however that needs to be accomplished). If that don't work, ask those same players to cancel their accounts temporarily until the Devs do something. Some of your comments literally reflect why the devs dictate more than they appreciate and incorporate ideas.
COH and it's developers has done some very good work with this game, so please understand I can see it from their perspective and being unable to play Santa Claus for everyone, but they is still a lot of room in terms of "the gaming experience" for all.
Thanks for those responses of maturity and bringing me up to speed.
TC
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This would require at very least a database change and altering the UI in at least 3 different places. No idea how much work that would entail, but a lot more than a copy/paste.|
Originally Posted by phenom44
It is a very simple addition as well....Simply copy and add another tray below the current tray provided after completing respec. (no 6 month wait or programming red tape).
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| Additioinal benefits would be players having to spend less influence at WW due to keeping usually discarded enh. Allowing them to potentiallly earn more influence with having saved more enhancements, which in turn may have a positive impact on the overpriced WW market. |
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| No brainer to me folks/devs. Let's do it. Every player would not have a problem with this for it has or creates no detriments. |
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Originally Posted by phenom44
With that said, what does set a unbelievable tone and jumps out is how obedient most of you are to what the devs tell you they are,will, can and want to do for you. YOU are paying their salaries. If YOU really want to get an idea approved. Present it and gain support from a high percentage of the players (however that needs to be accomplished). If that don't work, ask those same players to cancel their accounts temporarily until the Devs do something. Some of your comments literally reflect why the devs dictate more than they appreciate and incorporate ideas.
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You are correct, the devs get paid because we enjoy playing the game and if they make decisions that anger enough of the player base then it could potentially lead to the game being shut down and them fired due to lack of revenue.|
Originally Posted by phenom44
With that said, what does set a unbelievable tone and jumps out is how obedient most of you are to what the devs tell you they are,will, can and want to do for you. YOU are paying their salaries. If YOU really want to get an idea approved. Present it and gain support from a high percentage of the players (however that needs to be accomplished). If that don't work, ask those same players to cancel their accounts temporarily until the Devs do something. Some of your comments literally reflect why the devs dictate more than they appreciate and incorporate ideas.
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However your assumption that people threatening to quit over this particular issue would sway the devs is misguided. Allowing people to un-slot more enhancements during a respec would cause a major shift in the market prices. Obviously it's impossible to predict exactly what would happen but we can form a generalized set of assumptions. In general at the moment we can assume that people will unslot really valuable IOs (purples, PVPIOs, and probably most IOs over 60million or so) using multiple respecs if required since doing so and selling or reusing them on a different character is profitable even with the cost of a respec recipe. So in general if we could unslot unlimited IOs we would expect to see a large drop in the price of low and medium cost IOs as people would be passing them around their alts (and thus buying fewer) or unslotting them to upgrade (and thus selling more). Overtime this excess supply would build up and the IOs would essentially become vendor trash.
But what happens to the high end ones that people are unslotting now? Well if the price is high enough to make it worth unslotting them then making it easier to do so isn't going to noticeably affect the supply. Instead the price reduction of the lower end stuff will mean that people have more influence to spend on high end stuff driving prices even higher.
So what does this mean long term? It means the economy becomes even more fragmented than it is now. It's easier to obtain the less valuable stuff but becomes a lot harder to acquire the really popular stuff. Since the inf drops from enemies will remain the same the buying power of the average player will actually decrease at least with regards to their ability to buy the top end stuff.
So what does this mean in terms of player population? Yes, allowing us to retain more IOs in a respec might potentially keep some players for whom this is a deal breaker. However conversly it could also end up losing the game players due to the impact on the economy. Some players might get fed up with how long it takes to get high end stuff and burn out, others might leave due to the fact that the change made playing the market less enjoyable, finally some potential new players might be turned away by the feeling that the time required to get the top end stuff is to high. Is the latter group larger than the first group? Apparently the devs believe so but if you really feel that it isn't then prove it to the devs, cancel your account, tell them why and encourage others to do the same.
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Geez coach, we are tired of dribbling the ball, we want to just run with it. We pay to play here, and we want to make up the rules, these ones dont suit me, I mean, us at all. If you dont want to let us play like this, you can be replaced you know.|
Originally Posted by phenom44
With that said, what does set a unbelievable tone and jumps out is how obedient most of you are to what the devs tell you they are,will, can and want to do for you. YOU are paying their salaries. If YOU really want to get an idea approved. Present it and gain support from a high percentage of the players (however that needs to be accomplished). If that don't work, ask those same players to cancel their accounts temporarily until the Devs do something. Some of your comments literally reflect why the devs dictate more than they appreciate and incorporate ideas.
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Crazy to imagine that the players on the other teams are perfectly happy with dribbling aint it?
The title pretty much says it all.
I often find myself having to discard significant enhancements when doing a respec due to there being no room for me to keep them. I think with all of the changes that COH has endured over its tenure, it is time to upgrade this area of the user features.
It is a very simple addition as well....Simply copy and add another tray below the current tray provided after completing respec. (no 6 month wait or programming red tape).
Additioinal benefits would be players having to spend less influence at WW due to keeping usually discarded enh. Allowing them to potentiallly earn more influence with having saved more enhancements, which in turn may have a positive impact on the overpriced WW market.
No brainer to me folks/devs. Let's do it. Every player would not have a problem with this for it has or creates no detriments.
Thx