Super Booster V - Secondary Mutation Power: Feedback
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-10 14:18 in The Global Training Room Test Server
Quote:
Not really. Its similarly riding the edge of what seems reasonable to me in a perk buff. But the combination of the two makes the mutation buff power itself even more powerful.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
But +5% to all typed Def is okay?
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But also, and I don't mean to single out Adeon Hawkwood personally, but when I hear someone reply to a comment on the oddity of defensive type splitting, and without skipping a beat suggest converting accuracy to tohit which is an unrelated component of the power, my spider-sense goes off immediately and I think people in general are seeing an opportunity to hand-craft a far better buff than it was intended to be.
Which is probably subconsciously being signaled by the devs making a buff far stronger than any they have ever claimed would be reasonable before. Its certainly not game-breaking but it is certainly surprising to me to see the strength of this buff. Before I saw it, I would have laughed at any player suggesting it.
Put it this way: if the mutation buff did any *one* of its buff types with 20% uptime, I'd think it was pretty good for a perk power. Instead it does all of them randomly with 100% uptime. Makes it hard for me to quibble about typing when the problem isn't that some players are disadvantaged by the split typing, but rather that each will 20% of the time have a buff that is usually going to be less useful than at other times (there will still be some cross-over benefit for most players: SR would benefit from psionic defense for non-positional psi, and many typed defense players have psionic holes in their typed defenses).
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I turned into a riki!!!
Mutation: Devolution
Do to a (hopefully) temporary mutation, you have devolved into a Rikti monkey! None of your powers work for the time being.
Quote:
Did you get better?
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Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
I turned into a riki!!!
Mutation: Devolution Do to a (hopefully) temporary mutation, you have devolved into a Rikti monkey! None of your powers work for the time being. |
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You're right, I was mis-reading things and getting confused.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Also, the only resistances I'm aware of in the mutation buffs so far are mez resistance buffs (meaning: "reduce duration of mez" buffs, not magnitude protection).
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But also, and I don't mean to single out Adeon Hawkwood personally, but when I hear someone reply to a comment on the oddity of defensive type splitting, and without skipping a beat suggest converting accuracy to tohit which is an unrelated component of the power, my spider-sense goes off immediately and I think people in general are seeing an opportunity to hand-craft a far better buff than it was intended to be.
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1. Splitting the defensive powers means a lot of characters (basically any with either decent IOs or a defense based armor set) will get minimal benefit from one or the other.
2. Combining the defensive buffs into one power (Tough Hide) solves this problem
3. Without the defensive bonuses Acute Senses is rather weak
4. 3% accuracy bonus is pretty much useless since most characters already have decent accuracy (whether through accuracy slotting or just incidental IO bonuses) while a small (say 3%-5%) to hit bonus is more generically useful without being hideously overpowered.
5. Adding moderate resistance to -to hit and -perception to Acute Senses gives it a bit more flavor in keeping with similar regular powers but since those are only situationally useful isn't overpowered.
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Yep, that's the one. You should be able to reactivate Secondary Mutation about a minute later when it wears off. It must be a very rare effect, because I haven't drawn it yet in approaching a hundred casts. I was beginning to think the devs chickened out of putting this effect into the reward table rotation.
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Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
I turned into a riki!!!
Mutation: Devolution Do to a (hopefully) temporary mutation, you have devolved into a Rikti monkey! None of your powers work for the time being. |
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Grats! |
Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
I turned into a riki!!!
Mutation: Devolution Do to a (hopefully) temporary mutation, you have devolved into a Rikti monkey! None of your powers work for the time being. |
I think it would be great if all your powers were out of commission while you are a Rikti monkey EXCEPT for Psionic Dart, which would be added as a temp power. You would still suck, but you could do something and it would be a great flavor effect.
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Now that is way cool. |
Originally Posted by Hydrofoil_Zero
I turned into a riki!!!
Mutation: Devolution Do to a (hopefully) temporary mutation, you have devolved into a Rikti monkey! None of your powers work for the time being. |
Ooh, I hope that if you die as a monkey you get to do the monkey gas *poof* !
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Tell me about it! =P
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Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
I think it comes from my brief stint in genetics. When I think, "mutation," I'm thinking of "Oh no, there was a transcription error with the RNA, and the wrong amino group was used--now the entire protein will code differently!"
Not, "Double helix? HAH! I have a septuple helix!" whilst waltzing with King Kong. |
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True. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Not really. Its similarly riding the edge of what seems reasonable to me in a perk buff. But the combination of the two makes the mutation buff power itself even more powerful.
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Quote:
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Which is probably subconsciously being signaled by the devs making a buff far stronger than any they have ever claimed would be reasonable before. Its certainly not game-breaking but it is certainly surprising to me to see the strength of this buff. Before I saw it, I would have laughed at any player suggesting it. Put it this way: if the mutation buff did any *one* of its buff types with 20% uptime, I'd think it was pretty good for a perk power. Instead it does all of them randomly with 100% uptime. Makes it hard for me to quibble about typing when the problem isn't that some players are disadvantaged by the split typing, but rather that each will 20% of the time have a buff that is usually going to be less useful than at other times (there will still be some cross-over benefit for most players: SR would benefit from psionic defense for non-positional psi, and many typed defense players have psionic holes in their typed defenses). |
Another thing that could have been done with these: instead of being free to all characters on the account, they could opened up a special Power Pool power that you still had to spend a power pick on. That way, while you'd see people with the ability to read your fortune, run like a Ninja, and mutate themselves, it wouldn't be darn near everyone, and Self Destruct could have been made a lot more effective. It is obviously too late to change them to that, but I felt like mentioning the idea.
That being said, the Rikti Monkey thing is awesome.
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No kidding! Full chromosomal instead of genetic! |
DumpleBerry better step away from the reactor: Jebus, when you people mutate, I guess you don't mess around. |
But it would make a cute visual.
Dec out.
Objective Feedback:
The FX on Mutation: Acute Sense is very, very annoying. It flashes and makes noise every 5 seconds or so, and it will drive me to madness if it goes live like this.
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Concerning the triple helix; how would you make an icon for mutations to make it obvious?
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You appear to be looking at the right-click info from the buff bar. This won't give you the correct values in this case. Some buffs show up as <base value>+<buff value> instead of <buff value> there. Looking at Combat Attributes will give you the correct values (at least if you know how to read them).|
Originally Posted by Genesis Man
Mutation: Pain Tolerance
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In this case, this is the case for the End Discount and +Regen bonuses.
The EndRdx bonus is actually 30% ("-23.07%". 1 - 1/(1+30%) = 23.08%).
The Regen bonus is also 30% (normally 30%*100/240 = 0.125%/s).
The Mez resistance bonuses are 50% ("-33.33%", 1 - 1/(1+50%) = 33.33%).
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7.5% resist doesn't seem too bad. I think that would only make a difference for tankers/brutes/scrappers that are playing sets with medium-to-high resistances already. It probably won't do much for a squishy.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's starting to sound like piling on to the buffs. Even +7.5% res(all) is getting up there, for a random buff in a perk pack.
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IMO the one that sticks out is the 30% recharge. I mean, that's almost half of Hasten, for 20 minutes, with no downtime or endurance cost...
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That's better than [Quickness], [Lightning Reflexes], and [Mental Training], all primary/secondary powerset powers. Seems a bit extreme, especially when combined with those powersets. Granted, it doesn't have the resistance to -speed and -recharge that the above powers have, but still, it seems a bit much. Perhaps cut it in half and add *minor* resistance to those effects? Or a minor Travel buff, or at least a Run buff, so that it does more than practically nothing, but isn't more powerful than primary/secondary powers?
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Originally Posted by MTS
7.5% resist doesn't seem too bad. I think that would only make a difference for tankers/brutes/scrappers that are playing sets with medium-to-high resistances already. It probably won't do much for a squishy.
IMO the one that sticks out is the 30% recharge. I mean, that's almost half of Hasten, for 20 minutes, with no downtime or endurance cost... |
Subjective Feedback: The frequency of Mutation effects and their accompanying sounds play too oftent. I find the sounds particularly irritating. The frequent metallic swish could become very annoying while people are standing at WW's, the tailor, or any other quiet place.
Subjective Feedback:
5 out of 6 of the effects seem very overpowered.
+5% def and +3% Are objectively things that are worth billions of inf to people in the game currently.
30% recharge is a buff that is larger than the base empowerment buff or Accelerate Metabolism or Siphon Speed.
33% reductions or is it actually the 50% the power states ? in mezz durations coupled with conserve power and fast healing ? All in one buff ?
The 4 out of 5 buffs are as powerful or more powerful than what are considered must have power picks for various sets.
The monkey mutation is over the top as well in an even worse way. I haven't received it so I can only comment on the description but anything that renders a favorite character unplayable for a significant amount of time is going to really tick me off.
The movement Buff seems more reasonable in that its less in magnitude than lightning reflexes, quickness or mental training.
Just as a personal note, it would be much more enjoyable to have this right at the beginning rather than to have it go in overpowered and a month or two before the next pack comes out have an oopsie moment we are nerfing the stuffings out of this pack.
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Both. Sort of.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
33% reductions or is it actually the 50% the power states ?
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The effect Mez Resistance have on Mez duration is:
Effective_Duration = Base_Duration/(1+Mez_Resistance)
So, 50% Mez Resistance gives an effective duration of 100%/(1+50%) = 100%/1.5 = 66.67%, or a 33.33% decrease in duration.
Often it's better to look at the Resistance values than the duration changes, since the values for duration changes essentially assumes that there is only *one* Resistance in effect.
If you have two powers giving 50% Resistance, you have a total of 100% Resistance, cutting duration in half.
However, if you attempt to add together the duration changes for both Resistance sources, you end up with 2*33.33% = 66.67%, and this is wrong.
This leads to some apparent weirdness in the Combat Attributes, since the per-power descriptions show the duration changes that would result if you *only* had that power, and the totals show the *actual* duration change (it takes the total Resistance value, and calculates the duration change from this). This means that if you sum together all sub-entries, it won't match what the totals say. In those cases, the total is the one that's correct.
(looking at per-power values is usually the source of people claiming the Combat Numbers are "wrong")
So they actually did the Rikti Monkey part.
Have to admit to being surprised.
That ensures my wife won't get the pack. Appearance is important to her and being a Rikti monkey for 20 minutes is a dealbreaker. Yes, there are ways around (play another character, leave that character logged on for 20 minutes while you do something else) but she won't pay $10 for the possibility.
I'm much more of a powergamer, so I'm inclined to take the risk on the other overpowered buffs.
But, I think AF is right in that they will "nerf the stuffings" out of this power in a month or two. So do I want to pay for a power that will get nerfed?
I also wonder how many people will get kicked on a TF after they hit a power that makes them dead weight for 20 minutes.
It doesn't last for 20 minutes.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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For what I understand, after about a minute or so you can click the power again if you get this mutation... Didn´t get it, so anyone who did can confirm this?|
Originally Posted by Jetpack
I also wonder how many people will get kicked on a TF after they hit a power that makes them dead weight for 20 minutes.
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BTW: As this is still on test, maybe if something like the Psychic Dart power was added to it (in place of every other power you have) would be a nice touch... And Monkey Gas would be just plain funny. lol
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If the transformation only listed a minute, that would certainly impact my decision.
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I haven't drawn it yet, but the effect should turn you into a Rikti monkey for 60 seconds and then expire, and it also instantly recharges the Secondary Mutation power itself so after the 60 seconds you can redraw a new random mutation (you don't have to wait the normal 20 minute recharge).|
Originally Posted by Jetpack
If the transformation only listed a minute, that would certainly impact my decision.
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You know what would be cool is if you draw this mutation, it unlocks a toggle that lets you do it voluntarily from that point onward. I don't see the harm in it, and it makes the act of getting that mutation actually somewhat rewarding in an odd way.
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