What i feel would help improve a game we all love.
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-06-10 11:04 in Suggestions and Ideas
Hi, thanks for the post. Here's my thoughts.
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Being rooted doesn't bother me and I don't consider it when picking powers. Lots of great powers root, and it would be utterly ridiculous to skip a strong power just because it roots you for a brief period. On the other hand, I have read good posts about, for example, Shadow Maul and how its root gets you killed. Not an issue for me but I can see how the perception might be there.|
Originally Posted by Solistion
1. Fighting on the move mechanics - Not sure how impossible this would be but the ability to fight and move i have come to see is a real deciding factor for some, if the move roots them in place no matter how amazing the power is, people will overlook it.
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| 2. More combinations of powersets - This i was hoping would come during GR, however i am not certain if that is the case. I believe we have enough powers to keep us busy for quite sometime, however i for one would like to see more diverse amount of builds instead of being restricted to the Tank/Dps/Ranged Dps/Healer/CCer combination. In a world like CoX the freedom to be is the greatest super power of them all. |
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| 3. I love all the improvements so far, and seeing everything that CoX has become has always put a smile on my face, the game has been around for 6 years now and many of it's players are core players, they live, breathe,play CoH/V. And although many of the farms/AE farms have been taken down by miles, i think faster xp is a real plus. I was thinking of possibly an XP critical system where as you are fighting along doing your thing and you defeat a mob and instead of giving standard xp from level 1-50 you have a chance for an Xp crit where you get *Up to* double the Xp you would normally get. (How many of us don't have X amount of level 50s?) |
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| 4. this is a personal awesomeness idea, i would like to see more options for our characters (Costume wise). Now booster packs are a great idea in my opinion, i believe we have enough free costume pieces to keep us all going for a long time. I for one do not mind paying money for booster packs for costume designs emotes and such, i also believe that CoH/V should take full advantage of the fact people love making their characters look good. Booster packs (Brought out in small doses to ensure the money/time ratio of the animators is efficient) i believe are a great source of income for the game. (I for one have bought every booster pack/Version of the game minus Science/wedding...i'm a nerd...i know.) |
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| These are just some of the ideas i feel would help benefit the game as a whole. I would love for this game to prosper and continue into the future, there really isn't anything like it and if the ideas continue to flow, there will never be anything that can compare to it. Thank you all for your time in reading this. |
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Emberly said.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Emberly said.
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Lamentably, according to BAB when I asked him about this subject at HeroCon '08 in regards to PvP, the current engine cannot support different animations for both upper and lower torso simultaneously (unlike the newer engine used in CO and STO). This means that, in order to blast and run simultaneously (as an example), the engine would have to be re-written, as well as almost every character animation in the game. Suffice to say that it would be even more work than power customization, which took all of about five years to add to the game. Unfortunately, you probably wouldn't see something like this until CoH2, if you get what I mean :/| 1. Fighting on the move mechanics - Not sure how impossible this would be but the ability to fight and move i have come to see is a real deciding factor for some, if the move roots them in place no matter how amazing the power is, people will overlook it. |
My wish list item? Besides more back items (backpacks, permanent jetpack costume pieces, quivers, etc.), I'd like to see more chat bubble customization, especially border style (dripping, electric, warbled, etc) and font style.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Emberly said.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Emberly said.
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@SPTrashcan
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Given that we have travel suppression to prevent "jousting", I'm not sure if this would be met with approval from the developers.
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Originally Posted by Solistion
1. Fighting on the move mechanics - Not sure how impossible this would be but the ability to fight and move i have come to see is a real deciding factor for some, if the move roots them in place no matter how amazing the power is, people will overlook it.
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Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything Aett, Dechs, and Spit have said. However I would like to add that I think being able to mix and match powersets from AT's would lead to less diversity as build nazi's would seek out the ulitimate minimax in sets.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Aett and Dechs said.
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This is the story as I was told it: way, way back in the early early pre-beta days of the game, there were no archetypes and powers were available a la carte. The problem that they ran into wasn't so much min-maxers building super-builds - although I'm sure that happened - but more that many players who weren't well versed in the mechanics would simply pick out powers that looked interesting and end up with characters that couldn't do anything. ATs were partially designed to prevent tankmages, but more importantly they were also designed to force players into minimally functional builds. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything Aett, Dechs, and Spit have said. However I would like to add that I think being able to mix and match powersets from AT's would lead to less diversity as build nazi's would seek out the ulitimate minimax in sets.
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Of course, the devs back then also had a much lower bar for "minimally functional" than we would ever accept today.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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You bring up another valid point. I can easily see someone coming in from another game and trying to make (for example) a dedicated "healer" by choosing Empathy/Empathy and then after getting pissed when he discovers how badly that combination sucks, quitting and blaming the game for his own stupidity.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
This is the story as I was told it: way, way back in the early early pre-beta days of the game, there were no archetypes and powers were available a la carte. The problem that they ran into wasn't so much min-maxers building super-builds - although I'm sure that happened - but more that many players who weren't well versed in the mechanics would simply pick out powers that looked interesting and end up with characters that couldn't do anything. ATs were partially designed to prevent tankmages, but more importantly they were also designed to force players into minimally functional builds.
Of course, the devs back then also had a much lower bar for "minimally functional" than we would ever accept today. |
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This scares me every time I see it, and you neatly described why. "Different animations for upper and lower body" is the WORST, most repugnant way to animate any game that I have ever seen, and in any game that is not a shooter which has done this has only served to prove my conviction. There is nothing worse, I repeat, NOTHING WORSE than seeing your legs run around independent of your torso which swings around like it's mounted to sled sliding around the terrain.|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
Lamentably, according to BAB when I asked him about this subject at HeroCon '08 in regards to PvP, the current engine cannot support different animations for both upper and lower torso simultaneously.
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Human movement does not work like this. Human bodies both in stances and in motion are not anchored to an invisible platform at gut level with legs dangling below and torso swinging above. Human bodies are anchored to the ground, with their centre of gravity shifting up and down and side to side as they move. Any move, and especially melee attack moves, need to involve the whole body, because force is transferred through the body and into the ground in a powerful strike, or at the very least into the centre of gravity if the body is airborne. You can't get that through separate animations. It just looks BAAAD!
I've been spitting through my teeth at this concept ever since I played Rune way back in 2001. The UT99 engine is great for an FPS game where your torso is basically held level and your shoulders pivot with the gun pointing at the target. It works for shooters. It does NOT work for a hack-n-slash. For a hack-n-slash, it looks and feels as if my character is stuck in an invisible walker.
I've said it many, many times before. The only way to get decent attack animations while moving is to animate moving attacks. No cheat looks good. Oni did just that, which is what makes it a great game. Rune did not, which is what makes it crap. Champions Online did not. Guess what that means.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, that's a valid opinion, but at the same time, it would certainly increase the alacrity of PvP and PvE combat if players could move and attack. Agreed, animations would need to be spot-on regardless of whatever system is used. For example, I would expect a charging sword slash to look different from a standing slash. It could certainly be done with either system, given the right coding and animation states.
I would not say that the system itself is at fault, so much as the animators that use that system taking shortcuts that end up creating weaker-looking animations, which leads to a poorer player experience.
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That Cryptic didn't learn anything from creating CoH.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Rune did not, which is what makes it crap. Champions Online did not. Guess what that means.
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There is no way to make melee attacks look good while running multilaterally.
It just doesn't work. Show me a haymaker that looks good while you're running backwards, fighting the guy chasing you, face to face. Show me a decent way to animate "Whirling Hands" while running around. From the animation standpoint there's no way to get a feeling of -force- or power without rooting or bracing for the impact.
In addition you'd create a MASSIVE DISPARITY for players of blasting characters over melee characters. Simply because the Blaster can maintain speed while fleeing and firing at the melee character. So your improvement to PvP's feel of frenetic motion just unbalanced it beyond all reason and logic.
As for the more powerset combinations: Not against that at all, as it is. But with the idea of "Freeing" the ATs from their powersets? No. Not at all. I'm all for more powerset customization, but I don't want to see the return of the ala carte power selection. Powerset proliferation: Yes. Full Freedom: No.
Your final request gets a resounding "YES, Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!" from me. I'd love to see tons more costume options, booster packs or not.
-Rachel-
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Emberly said.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Emberly said.
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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything that Aett and Dechs said.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
Just wanted to say that I pretty much blah blah blah.
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This is something that largely gets overlooked, somehow. Forget aesthetics (though I agree about those), rooting is essential for game balance in CoH. They would have to completely rethink pretty much everything from the ground up to account for its absence.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
In addition you'd create a MASSIVE DISPARITY for players of blasting characters over melee characters. Simply because the Blaster can maintain speed while fleeing and firing at the melee character. So your improvement to PvP's feel of frenetic motion just unbalanced it beyond all reason and logic.
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Yeah, I do actually keep overlooking that. Given that all players run at (relatively) the same speed and most players run faster than most NPCs, allowing blasting ATs to essentially kite endlessly and never stop is... Problematic? Yeah, to say the least.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
This is something that largely gets overlooked, somehow. Forget aesthetics (though I agree about those), rooting is essential for game balance in CoH. They would have to completely rethink pretty much everything from the ground up to account for its absence.
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Not to mention that the less reason games give players to backpedal, the better. I HATE the look of that kind of movement, especially running! I mean seriously!
And again - melee just looks TERRIBLE in perpetual motion. Even anime, which is known for its weird fighting styles, tends to avoid that.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Ultimate Minmax? |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just wanted to say that I pretty much agree with everything Aett, Dechs, and Spit have said. However I would like to add that I think being able to mix and match powersets from AT's would lead to less diversity as build nazi's would seek out the ulitimate minimax in sets.
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Stone Armor/Sonic Attack.
Unkillable Granite form combined with an attack set that counteracts Granite's -Dam debuff by it's very nature? Focus all your slotting on recharge bonuses and you just made the best tankmage this game would ever see.
Granite's -Speed wouldn't even be a factor. It's only a disadvantage currently because all the sets you can pair with Stone Armor require you to be in melee, forcing you to move in order to attack. If you could pair it with a blast set that counteracts two disadvantages of Granite by being ranged and having a resistance debuff effect to balance out the damage debuff you could clear a room without ever moving, making the speed debuff irrelevant.
That's just ONE combination of powersets that would be broken, there are tons of others.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I figure we get plenty of "movement while fighting" just by using momentum anyway.
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Samuel_Tow hates split bodies: Yeah, I do actually keep overlooking that. Given that all players run at (relatively) the same speed and most players run faster than most NPCs, allowing blasting ATs to essentially kite endlessly and never stop is... Problematic? Yeah, to say the least. Not to mention that the less reason games give players to backpedal, the better. I HATE the look of that kind of movement, especially running! I mean seriously! And again - melee just looks TERRIBLE in perpetual motion. Even anime, which is known for its weird fighting styles, tends to avoid that. |
Dec out.
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Wow, I've never thought about it, but that's a valid point. I like what the animators did with Ninja Run and Walk, whereas when you move backwards, your character turns 180 degrees and moves backwards at speed. Backpeddling is one of those MMO throwbacks that never looked right, but everyone got used to. It's even more silly backpeddling at Sprint and Super Speed paces.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, I do actually keep overlooking that. Given that all players run at (relatively) the same speed and most players run faster than most NPCs, allowing blasting ATs to essentially kite endlessly and never stop is... Problematic? Yeah, to say the least.
Not to mention that the less reason games give players to backpedal, the better. I HATE the look of that kind of movement, especially running! I mean seriously! And again - melee just looks TERRIBLE in perpetual motion. Even anime, which is known for its weird fighting styles, tends to avoid that. |
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I like where you're going here with this idea, as my biggest belief for CoX is that its "combat" system has been the same since day 1; Click on the enemy, click on your power, rinse repeat. It's time to evolve it a bit more and make it more immersive. Maybe give us the ability to launch stronger versions of our attacks for more endurance; or smarter/diverse A.I. (Malta targets blasters 1st, while warriors focus on scrappers). |
Originally Posted by Solistion
1. Fighting on the move mechanics - Not sure how impossible this would be but the ability to fight and move i have come to see is a real deciding factor for some, if the move roots them in place no matter how amazing the power is, people will overlook it.
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Or something along the lines of, having an ice blaster and a fire blaster on your team can compliment one another, such as, the ice attacks lowers the enemies temperature, then the fire blaster's attack shoots it back up, causing more damage (going from 0 degrees to 100 degrees body temperature cant be good for you).
I'm sure there are many other things that could be done, but yeah, that quote of yours got the gears in my head spinning. =)
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You know, they actually changed that at one point when they were adding flight positions. The change made it so that your character would simply spin and face the direction of movement, be it left, right backwards or diagonally. I personally found it to be MUCH better than what we had, but people complained it looked weird that their character wasn't looking in the direction they were pointing the camera, so that was dropped (possibly for other reasons).|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
Wow, I've never thought about it, but that's a valid point. I like what the animators did with Ninja Run and Walk, whereas when you move backwards, your character turns 180 degrees and moves backwards at speed. Backpeddling is one of those MMO throwbacks that never looked right, but everyone got used to. It's even more silly backpeddling at Sprint and Super Speed paces.
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Personally, though, THIS is how I would like all of my characters to run. It still confounds me why running backwards had to be made SLOWER (you can tell with the Walk toggle on), but even if it had to slow me down, I would MUCH rather have my character pivot and look at where he's going, rather than looking at whatever I might have turned the camera to. At least as an option. I though "Free Camera Movement" would do that, but it doesn't.
Small point of fact - this is EXACTLY how Kheldian Dwarves move. They don't have strafing and backpedalling animations. They just pivot. And I love it!
Honestly, of all the movements people can do, running backwards has got to be one of the dumbest.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I disagree. In the spirit of not fixing what ain't broke, I'd rather the developers kept their hands away from completely and totally revamping the combat system. You've seen how well that worked for PvP, and that had at least a tangential reason to be changed. There's NO REASON to mess with the PvE game other than for the sake of changing it, and on the scale of bad reasons to do something, "Just to change it." ranks among the worst, slightly above "Why not?"|
Originally Posted by Rowdy
I like where you're going here with this idea, as my biggest belief for CoX is that its "combat" system has been the same since day 1; Click on the enemy, click on your power, rinse repeat. It's time to evolve it a bit more and make it more immersive. Maybe give us the ability to launch stronger versions of our attacks for more endurance; or smarter/diverse A.I. (Malta targets blasters 1st, while warriors focus on scrappers).
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I don't want to get into the specific ideas. I just want to say that the system does not need to be more complex as far as I'm concerned, and making it more complex has the potential to make me like it a whole lot less.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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From what I saw of the game during my trial period, I get the distinct sense of someone deliberately repeating things that turned out not to work in practice in CoX in order to prove he'd been right the first time. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That Cryptic didn't learn anything from creating CoH.
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That line of thought /rarely/ ends well.
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Hello everyone, i am a big fan of CoH/V, have been ever since launch and although i do take breaks now and again this game was my first MMO and has always had my fondest wishes for it.
I would like to submit an small ideas panel as to what i feel would allow this game to continue to deliver, in my opinion, the best heroic/villainous gaming experience out there. I accept any helpful responses as well as criticism, but please keep it productive.
1. Fighting on the move mechanics - Not sure how impossible this would be but the ability to fight and move i have come to see is a real deciding factor for some, if the move roots them in place no matter how amazing the power is, people will overlook it.
2. More combinations of powersets - This i was hoping would come during GR, however i am not certain if that is the case. I believe we have enough powers to keep us busy for quite sometime, however i for one would like to see more diverse amount of builds instead of being restricted to the Tank/Dps/Ranged Dps/Healer/CCer combination. In a world like CoX the freedom to be is the greatest super power of them all.
3. I love all the improvements so far, and seeing everything that CoX has become has always put a smile on my face, the game has been around for 6 years now and many of it's players are core players, they live, breathe,play CoH/V. And although many of the farms/AE farms have been taken down by miles, i think faster xp is a real plus. I was thinking of possibly an XP critical system where as you are fighting along doing your thing and you defeat a mob and instead of giving standard xp from level 1-50 you have a chance for an Xp crit where you get *Up to* double the Xp you would normally get. (How many of us don't have X amount of level 50s?)
4. this is a personal awesomeness idea, i would like to see more options for our characters (Costume wise). Now booster packs are a great idea in my opinion, i believe we have enough free costume pieces to keep us all going for a long time. I for one do not mind paying money for booster packs for costume designs emotes and such, i also believe that CoH/V should take full advantage of the fact people love making their characters look good. Booster packs (Brought out in small doses to ensure the money/time ratio of the animators is efficient) i believe are a great source of income for the game. (I for one have bought every booster pack/Version of the game minus Science/wedding...i'm a nerd...i know.)
These are just some of the ideas i feel would help benefit the game as a whole. I would love for this game to prosper and continue into the future, there really isn't anything like it and if the ideas continue to flow, there will never be anything that can compare to it. Thank you all for your time in reading this.