A Thought on Hockey, Bandwagon Jumping and GR


Angryellow

 

Posted

Before you read too far and get mad that I wasted your time, it's a rainy craptastic day here in Chicago and I have absolutely nothing to do...and this post will likely have no relevance to your life...you have been warned.

Ok, I am sitting here in Chicago listening to a spirited discussion about how the 3500 fans that actually went to Blackhawks games when they sucked are somehow better fans and more deserving of a playoff ticket than anybody else and the fact that they cannot afford a playoff ticket is a crime against humanity. They literally hate/begrudge anyone who wasn't standing in an empty stadium during the "dark days". It's quite entertaining

Nevermind that their old owner, Dollar Bill Wirtz (may he rest in peace), for years refused to show home games on TV because that would not be fair to people who bought season tickets. I have never seen a more hated owner.(Think PvP changes for hate level then times that by 10)

But anyway, this whole bandwagon jumping arguement got me thinking. What if GR becomes City of's Stanley Cup run??? What if we go from 3500 die hards to a packed stadium and 900,000 homes tuned in, in Chicago alone, for game 5.

Will we hate/begrudge all the new comers??? Will we say they do not deserve the goodness of our beloved game because they were not here when things were not so good??

Personally I am hoping for a happy go lucky new comer vid like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNn3k1KfOrs

Enjoy.


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Posted

As a fellow bandwagoneer , I could care less if someone who went while they were bad can't go now . It's called getting better . Sure tons might be back for GR , and I'm sure Virtue and Freedom will be packed to the gills with people , but that means we will just have to go to another server , make a toon and have a good time . Same with Blackhawk fans , if you can't afford to go , watch on TV . Its cheaper , no worries about parking and food or not being able to use the can in peace . Oh and GO HAWKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

Posted

Oh, the new players will quickly learn to resent and envy our shiny veteran badges no matter how many horror stories we tell of the olden days. At least they probably won't be AE babies - I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts there won't be an AE building in Praetoria.

I'm'a roll me some alts in Praetoria anyway, and I'll be happy to put some newbies on the right track while I'm there.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
They literally hate/begrudge anyone who wasn't standing in an empty stadium during the "dark days".
That's OK, I quite literally hate them, too. Not because they're the 'dark days' fans, but just because they're Chicago fans. Although I have begrudgingly gave some golf claps during the wins because I loathe Philadelphia even more.

Honestly. I've rarely been this unmoved by a Cup final. I wish the Kings were playing Philly - then I could root for the San Andreas to take 'em both!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
But anyway, this whole bandwagon jumping arguement got me thinking. What if GR becomes City of's Stanley Cup run??? What if we go from 3500 die hards to a packed stadium and 900,000 homes tuned in, in Chicago alone, for game 5. Will we hate/begrudge all the new comers??? Will we say they do not deserve the goodness of our beloved game because they were not here when things were not so good??
Well, *I* won't, but one should just look at the vitriol and entitlement whine surrounding the recent change dropping EAT unlock to level 20 and assume that it would be like that, times eleventy-billion.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrrano View Post
Well, *I* won't, but one should just look at the vitriol and entitlement whine surrounding the recent change dropping EAT unlock to level 20 and assume that it would be like that, times eleventy-billion.
I tend to agree and somewhat worry about this.

There is something strange about how people feel when the buy a ticket (especially season tickets) much like people express they feel about paying a monthly fee for a game like this. Somehow it gives them an air of ownership and the longer they have had those season tickets or paid for a game the more of an ownership stake they feel they have in the franchise (game or sport).

It creates that hierarchy of vet vs. noob, die hard vs. bandwagon jumper, that I hope does not drive away any new folks that will hopefully be drawn in by GR. The thought process of some of these fans is facinating. They would rather sit in the stadium with those 3500 die hards than share the experience with anyone else.

I wonder how many folks feel that way here. That if people have not found the fun that is this game by now, then they dont want them. Do we have people that want to keep the game all to themselves?? and if so where can we lock them up before GR comes out?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
I wonder how many folks feel that way here. That if people have not found the fun that is this game by now, then they dont want them. Do we have people that want to keep the game all to themselves?? and if so where can we lock them up before GR comes out?
Well, most of the griping will take place here in the forums, so the newbs won't be putting up with it - we will.


 

Posted

My hometown team may be down 3-2 in the series, but we've come back from far worse things to get where we are now. Go Flyers!

On the topic, I can't speak for other hockey fans or other players, but I feel that new fans of anything should be welcomed with open arms. For one, we were all newbies once, and it would be hypocritical to persecute someone who is in the same position you were once in. And second, having a lot of fans is a sign, and in some cases like this game the very definition, of success. People do want their favorite show/team/game to be successful, right?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
Will we hate/begrudge all the new comers???
Only if they insist on remaining noobs (not newbies who want to learn, newbies are good) and complaining that the game isn't doing things like WoW.


 

Posted

I don't believe we are going to see a huge influx of new players. Some new players, sure, and some returning players, but it's not gonna be CoV all over again. The game has passed its peak.


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Posted

Should we really be begrudging toward anyone who shows an interest in the game we hold so dear? So what if they only come for GR? At least they showed up, if only for a month or two. That's their money in NC's pocket, and I thought we wanted new player interest to help keep the train rolling. Why should we be bitter toward anyone who wants to play our game? It's not like bandwagoners get to play a better version of game than the diehards, so why even make it an issue?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkGob View Post
I don't believe we are going to see a huge influx of new players. Some new players, sure, and some returning players, but it's not gonna be CoV all over again. The game has passed its peak.
and what happens if you are wrong about any MMO having a peak?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angryellow View Post
Should we really be begrudging toward anyone who shows an interest in the game we hold so dear? So what if they only come for GR? At least they showed up, if only for a month or two. That's their money in NC's pocket, and I thought we wanted new player interest to help keep the train rolling. Why should we be bitter toward anyone who wants to play our game? It's not like bandwagoners get to play a better version of game than the diehards, so why even make it an issue?
Not sure I am making it an issue. Just had an observation about a seperate issue and wondered if we would have a similar issue here. Also, it's not so much that they get to play a "better version of the game". They just get to enjoy a new shiny version of the game without 6 years of growing pains and not so shiny graphics. Some folks might resent that, like the EAT level change. I will not and hope most folks do not. Anyone that jumps on the bandwagon is a good thing in my eyes.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
Will we hate/begrudge all the new comers??? Will we say they do not deserve the goodness of our beloved game because they were not here when things were not so good??
I doubt it - if there's one thing that my time in CoH reinforced time and time again, it's the faith in the playerbase. A single glance at the Player Question forum will show you that any thread by someone mentioning that they're new to the game will have people falling over each other, all but literally, to answer their questions and throw out advice to anything so much as vaguely related to it. Making new players feel welcome to City of Heroes isn't so much a tradition as it is a competitive sport.


 

Posted

I don't care who wins the Cup but I might lean towards Philly. Dustin Byfuglen has no class and is a bit of an ****. Can't cheer for that guy. However, Philly has Chris Pronger.... which way to go...hahaha

Also looks like hockey is really gaining momentum again. NBA kinda sucks these days and it is tough watching baseball on most days. I like MLB but man oh man...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
and what happens if you are wrong about any MMO having a peak?
I would venture a guess and say 'then the entire industry is wrong along with him/her'. That is, unless you think there's a magic release that Mythic can produce that would automagically make DAoC as popular (or more popular) than it was say, 6 years or so ago (or rather, just prior to Trials of Atlantis). I'm sure SOE would pay you big dollars if you could tell them of something they could do to give their flaccid flagship a rebirth of sorts.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemianenI View Post
I would venture a guess and say 'then the entire industry is wrong along with him/her'. That is, unless you think there's a magic release that Mythic can produce that would automagically make DAoC as popular (or more popular) than it was say, 6 years or so ago (or rather, just prior to Trials of Atlantis). I'm sure SOE would pay you big dollars if you could tell them of something they could do to give their flaccid flagship a rebirth of sorts.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
and what happens if you are wrong about any MMO having a peak?
...Nothing? I don't get what you're implying here. So I'm wrong. Not the end of the world.

But I don't see how I can be wrong. MMOs have fluctuating populations during their lifetimes. At some point an MMO will reach its peak population. It may continue to fluctuate up and down beyond that, but by definition it will never return to its peak. That's why it's a peak. Because it's a peak.

Do I need to draw you a graph?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
[/quote[

Ok, I am sitting here in Chicago listening to a spirited discussion about how the 3500 fans that actually went to Blackhawks games when they sucked are somehow better fans and more deserving of a playoff ticket than anybody else and the fact that they cannot afford a playoff ticket is a crime against humanity. They literally hate/begrudge anyone who wasn't standing in an empty stadium during the "dark days". It's quite entertaining

Nevermind that their old owner, Dollar Bill Wirtz (may he rest in peace), for years refused to show home games on TV because that would not be fair to people who bought season tickets. I have never seen a more hated owner.(Think PvP changes for hate level then times that by 10)

I completely agree with those fans; while no one will begrudge anyone getting happy about their local team being successful, bandwagon fans can be some of the worst of the bunch. It was particularly trying here when Montreal went to the Conference finals and everyone was suddenly a BIG HABS FAN.

Conversation I had:

"So, Markov being injured is a blow to your team!"

"We already have a lot of forwards."

"But Markov is your stud D-quarterback."

"He's new anyway, we won't miss him!"

"He's been there forever..."

"Who cares! GO HABS GO OLE OLE OLE OLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

Note that I'm *not* a Habs fan in the least but you can be sure that Joe Hab Fan will go back to not knowing a thing about hockey within a week or two. Likewise, I'm sure if you asked half the people in that new Hawks bandwagon who Pierre Pilote was, they'd tell you he was a French airplane pilot.

There *is* a point of pride in being a tried and true fan of a sports team, even a long-suffering sports team such as mine (Go Leafs Go, up in the standings? Please?) because then you can truly enjoy it when things turn around.

Likewise, if Going Rogue invites new people to the game, I'll welcome them and I'll help them and I'll share the lore. Like the suddenly successful hockey team, their support (however ephemeral) is necessary to grow our brand here at NCSoft Norcal. Besides, how useful is it (apart from a point of historicity or game savvy) to know that a while ago, you could go to Paragon Dance Party instead of the snazzy Pocket D?

I welcome all new heroes and villains, if only because there might be new PvPers among them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
Will we hate/begrudge all the new comers???
We call them "noobs" or "newbs" or "n00bs"

But I won't hate/begrudge them at all. I'll just bore them with stories about how things "used to be".

As for the other part of your post... where's Phillygirl when I need her...

GO FLYERS !!!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
I completely agree with those fans; while no one will begrudge anyone getting happy about their local team being successful, bandwagon fans can be some of the worst of the bunch. It was particularly trying here when Montreal went to the Conference finals and everyone was suddenly a BIG HABS FAN.


Note that I'm *not* a Habs fan in the least but you can be sure that Joe Hab Fan will go back to not knowing a thing about hockey within a week or two. Likewise, I'm sure if you asked half the people in that new Hawks bandwagon who Pierre Pilote was, they'd tell you he was a French airplane pilot.

There *is* a point of pride in being a tried and true fan of a sports team, even a long-suffering sports team such as mine (Go Leafs Go, up in the standings? Please?) because then you can truly enjoy it when things turn around.
Pierre Pilote!?!? Good heavens we are still explaining freakin offsides to people that are just "here for the party" that has become the Blackhawks season. Decades of of zero local TV presence makes the Blackhawks as close to an expansion franchise as an original 6 team could get. The only games on TV were away games which meant west coast and late start times here in Chicago. The franchise lost an entire generation of fans. If you think marketing is bad here you have no idea how bad it can be.

All of which makes the revivial just more bitter sweet. Long time fans that refused to patronize a poorly run team are looked down on by people that paid their cash no matter how bad the team was run. The results of the teams success appears to have ruined the enjoyment of that success for those die-hards. I hope that does not happen here if GR turns into a new gloden age for this game.

I hope we don't say "welcome aboard"...just so long as you don't ruin it for the rest of us.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaumator View Post
GO Blackhawks !!!
fixed that for ya...


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
Pierre Pilote!?!? Good heavens we are still explaining freakin offsides to people that are just "here for the party" that has become the Blackhawks season. Decades of of zero local TV presence makes the Blackhawks as close to an expansion franchise as an original 6 team could get. The only games on TV were away games which meant west coast and late start times here in Chicago. The franchise lost an entire generation of fans. If you think marketing is bad here you have no idea how bad it can be.

All of which makes the revivial just more bitter sweet. Long time fans that refused to patronize a poorly run team are looked down on by people that paid their cash no matter how bad the team was run. The results of the teams success appears to have ruined the enjoyment of that success for those die-hards. I hope that does not happen here if GR turns into a new gloden age for this game.

I hope we don't say "welcome aboard"...just so long as you don't ruin it for the rest of us.
In Toronto you have the die hards vs. the corporates. The fans here complain that the "suits" who show up at the game aren't true hockey fans, let alone bandwagon jumpers.
Toronto (and some would argue Montreal) are the media monsters of hockey. Every players movements are watched, judged, critiqued.
Toronto has stunk so bad in the salary cap era but they still sell out every game yet the upper management doesn't care if they make the playoffs or not.
There was a report done about the Leafs that if they made a decent post season run that after ticket sales/costs etc that MLSE would only break even. So to them, they make MORE money when the Leafs don't make the playoffs, so there is no real rush to get a good team out there.

I for one am glad to see Chicago and Philly in the finals.


As for the OP. I hope it brings in a lot of new players. We all had to learn teh game at one point. With GR these new players will have some vets to help them start up as we'll all be starting from Pretoria to play the new content.


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Posted

I'm perfectly okay with our game's population jumping up by 900k and I would welcome new peeps with open arms.

As far as the Blackhawks go, I'm a longtime suffering fan. I was only 5 years old when they last WON A GAME in the finals (in 1975) and the last time they won the cup was nearly 50 years ago. In the 90s, I watched them make a number of playoff runs with a good, young group of players, only to see those very same players traded away or cast off into free agency because Bill Wirtz didn't want to pay any money for them. I remember Jeremy Roenick, a perennial ALL STAR PLAYER getting traded away for Alexei Zhamov and a sack of magic beans. Then Chris Chelios, Mr. Blackhawk his own bad self, was traded to the Red Wings. THE FREAKING RED WINGS! That was the final straw, and I rebelled with lots of other fans. And you know it's bad when your own Hall of Fame players, like Bobby Hull, have been completely alienated by the franchise.

When Bill Wirtz died, I don't think the body was even cold when his son (and current owner) Rocky Wirtz was on the phone with local TV affiliates. The club has put forth a lot of effort to regain the trust of the fans. Even if the team wasn't in the finals, people would have started coming back to the stadium. Bobby Hull has been seen at multiple games up in the press box high-fiving Rocky after every goal. It's awesome. Bill Wirtz could never have engineered anything like this.

(Please note, by all accounts Bill Wirtz was a nice guy. What he didn't spend on the Blackhawks he spent helping out local charities and such. He just wasn't with the times when it came to modern sports franchises.)


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade View Post
fixed that for ya...
And you would be wrong. But that's okay, I'll forgive you. After all, you are a Chicago fan.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
I'm perfectly okay with our game's population jumping up by 900k and I would welcome new peeps with open arms.

As far as the Blackhawks go, I'm a longtime suffering fan. I was only 5 years old when they last WON A GAME in the finals (in 1975) and the last time they won the cup was nearly 50 years ago. In the 90s, I watched them make a number of playoff runs with a good, young group of players, only to see those very same players traded away or cast off into free agency because Bill Wirtz didn't want to pay any money for them. I remember Jeremy Roenick, a perennial ALL STAR PLAYER getting traded away for Alexei Zhamov and a sack of magic beans. Then Chris Chelios, Mr. Blackhawk his own bad self, was traded to the Red Wings. THE FREAKING RED WINGS! That was the final straw, and I rebelled with lots of other fans. And you know it's bad when your own Hall of Fame players, like Bobby Hull, have been completely alienated by the franchise.

When Bill Wirtz died, I don't think the body was even cold when his son (and current owner) Rocky Wirtz was on the phone with local TV affiliates. The club has put forth a lot of effort to regain the trust of the fans. Even if the team wasn't in the finals, people would have started coming back to the stadium. Bobby Hull has been seen at multiple games up in the press box high-fiving Rocky after every goal. It's awesome. Bill Wirtz could never have engineered anything like this.

(Please note, by all accounts Bill Wirtz was a nice guy. What he didn't spend on the Blackhawks he spent helping out local charities and such. He just wasn't with the times when it came to modern sports franchises.)
Agree completely across the board Defenestrator right down to the timeline...looks like you are the same age as me. For all of Bill Wirtz's faults as an owner, I found the virtual dancing in the streets and unbound joy expressed at his death by many fans to be, in a word, disturbing.


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