Very nice! All very positive and informative. Ive got a friend who just recently started playing, I'll be sending him here so he can get his start on the market. Thanks!
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
Another excellent guide, Fury Flechette!!
And here's an additional tip: Get the Entreprenuer Day Job Accolade as soon as you can (21 days in a Store for Shop Keeper, then 21 days in WW, for Day Trader). After that, you'll start earning Invention Discount Coupons. They will reduce crafting costs by 25%.
For every 24 hours spent logged off in a Shop or WW, you'll earn 1 Invention Discount Coupon. Log off in a Store and earn the Shop Keeper badge first. I'd suggest using Talos Island, and logging off in the Tech store. Even at a low level, it's easy to get there. Then, you can log out in WW, and continue to log out there after you get the Accolade. There's a Base Portal nearby for easy crafting access.
If you don't have access to a Super Group/Super Group with a Crafting Table, then Steel Canyon is the next best choice. The Natural Store just on the other side of the University, where you can go to craft.
[ ProTip: The banner is a link to art refs!! | The Khellection | The HBAS Repository | Brute Guides (4/16/10) | How To Post An Image - A Quick Guide ]
Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:
Good to see this highly informative and well presented guide in its natural habitat- hopefully it'll get a wider audience than it did hidden away in the musty market forum with all us eeeebil degenerates.
=)
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Redside you get these with the Smuggler and Marketeer badges. Smuggler comes from the ferries. This makes Cap au Diable the ideal since the university market and ferry are so close together. However, Port Oaks and St. Martial are also decent.|
Originally Posted by Kheldarn
For every 24 hours spent logged off in a Shop or WW, you'll earn 1 Invention Discount Coupon. Log off in a Store and earn the Shop Keeper badge first. I'd suggest using Talos Island, and logging off in the Tech store. Even at a low level, it's easy to get there. Then, you can log out in WW, and continue to log out there after you get the Accolade. There's a Base Portal nearby for easy crafting access.
If you don't have access to a Super Group/Super Group with a Crafting Table, then Steel Canyon is the next best choice. The Natural Store just on the other side of the University, where you can go to craft. |
Oaks has the ferry just down the hill and the abandoned lab for crafting a short hop over the bay.
St. Martial has the vanguard base for crafting and the ferry just over the highway in the Arachnos base.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Nice Guide.
If you are going to dabble with L50 crafting, the Discount tickets from the
Day Job are definitely well worth it - they'll save 100K+ on every recipe crafted...
There's also an abandoned lab near the market in St. Martial as well.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
I use this same method with a certain IO, and it makes me 100-200 million a day if i spend an hour or so each day doing it before I log. I list the IO before I go to bed at night, and check when I get back from work the next afternoon. Almost all the IO's I listed sell in that time, and the ones that haven't sold yet usually sell during my in-game time in the evening.
Contact me in-game: @CheeseSlicer
Awesome guide, I've been marketing for a little over a year now, and have noticed trends in certain io's that have nice disparity:
1) Sets that are comaparable to unique io's in the types, not amounts, of bonuses they give (Crushing Impact, Decimations are 2 good examples).
2) Anything that gives a defense bonus for 6 pieces, there are popular ones, such as Touch of Death and Mako's Bite, so look for other sets that do this, and you'll be nicely surprised by the amount of money you can make with minimal effort.
Member of The Stoned Templars
"If you can't eat it or smoke it, I'm not paying $100 for it" - Cherry Cupcakes
This was a great idea until it was posted and then a thousand people did it. Now it no longer works. Prices for the above recipes and others have soared. Guess we're back to farming again.
Still works fine for me. Just gotta know what to look for. Which is what this guide is telling you.
[ ProTip: The banner is a link to art refs!! | The Khellection | The HBAS Repository | Brute Guides (4/16/10) | How To Post An Image - A Quick Guide ]
Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:
Quote:
The technique works for a lot of recipes not just the ones I've used as examples. In fact, here's a recent example of the principles in action: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=231833|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
This was a great idea until it was posted and then a thousand people did it. Now it no longer works. Prices for the above recipes and others have soared. Guess we're back to farming again.
|
The poster there made 2B in 5 days, 8 hours.
It's also been repeatedly shown that even after every marketeering technique has been revealed, they still work because a) only a small portion of the gaming community reads the forums b) only a smaller subset of those readers bother to apply what they read c) there are a vast quantity of niches, many that are still untapped.
Quote:
Still works for me. Although I don't use the recipes above, but rather something I've discovered myself.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
This was a great idea until it was posted and then a thousand people did it. Now it no longer works. Prices for the above recipes and others have soared. Guess we're back to farming again.
|
As FF mentioned, this only works because there are a number of people out there who 1) have lots of money so they don't bother with crafting and/or 2) put stuff up in the market for much less than the going rate. You could call it ignorance, if by working for 5 minutes (searching for salvage and crafting) you could save 10mins+ worth of farming, but some people still prefer farming and paying extra.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Quote:
You have missed the point of his post. Fury is teaching you the general principle for making money crafting IOs. The basic idea is to find something that you can create at a low cost that will sell for a high price.|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
This was a great idea until it was posted and then a thousand people did it. Now it no longer works. Prices for the above recipes and others have soared. Guess we're back to farming again.
|
The exact thing involved does not matter, and it will change over time. Sometimes it will be level 50 End Mod IOs. Sometimes it will be Crushing Impact IOs.
The trick is to be able to recognize the price differential between crafting costs and sale prices in general, not selling the specific items he gave in his example.
This reminds of that old saying: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think."
Quote:
yes this no longer works, please go back to farming and supplying me with recipes...|
Originally Posted by Firewasp
This was a great idea until it was posted and then a thousand people did it. Now it no longer works. Prices for the above recipes and others have soared. Guess we're back to farming again.
|
kthxbai!
jk jk jk
I made billions upon billions doing this, it has worked effectively since i10 (<--- and maybe before but that's when I started trying to learn)
I just started looking into what the market can really do, rather than just dumping my stuff and be happy when I sell a rare salvage for a few million. This guide is perfect for someone like me.
If I might add a rookie tip: Look at what you already have.
I was just about to vendor a level 40 generic Acc recipe a few days ago, when I took a look at the going price for the crafted IO. Instead, I decided to buy another Acc recipe and sell both crafted. I walked away with a cool 500,000inf profit. Not much, compared to some, but as a first look into the real market, it's an eye opener. I turned a more or less worthless recipe drop into half a million. What can I do with something that's actually worth something? That's something that's worth looking into, I'd say.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
I've been VERY casually doing this, and I've made about 400 mil in about 3 months. If I put more time/effort into it, I could be cap'd at 2 bil right now.
[ ProTip: The banner is a link to art refs!! | The Khellection | The HBAS Repository | Brute Guides (4/16/10) | How To Post An Image - A Quick Guide ]
Biggest Troll on the forums? I'll give you a hint:
Another convert here and yes, please look at what you get on your drops. I went through a couple of radios, helped with an AV or two, and ran a very short AE arc that I enjoy (but does not give a lot of tickets if you only do the first part which is all I ever do. I ended up with 600 or so) and turned that maybe three hours of "work" (across two nights) into 100 million inf and that is without any purples or Hami-Os or trading in of merits.
I do not do this all of the time but it is pretty nice to be able to do it every so often just to be able to pick a few things I would like to have for my toons such as a stealth or kb recipe.
Even an Idiot like me can do this! thanks for this simplistic and aweosme guide.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
I think I'm doing alot of this completely wrong...That, or the state of the market has changed in the past few months.
Could just be my bad luck, but items that run stable at 20m+ will suddenly drop to less than half of that the second I post an item at 15m, thinking I'm a smart guy by undercutting. Kinda feels like someone is waiting for me to invest in something before screwing me over at the last second...Even worse is when I see items consistently selling for more than what I've listed, while my listing just sits there until the prices fall low enough to put me further into the hole. Very fickle market, it seems.
Going to end up with alot of expensive crap I'd have to probably give away. It's...Discouraging. Don't know how some of you people pull millions in days by it.
Quote:
Pretty easy to explain actually. Suppose as in your example, you've posted a crafted IO for 15M that sells for 20M+. That's pretty decent reasoning, since the lowest priced IO usually sells first, it still may mean yours will sit there while another player's sells. What you may be up against is a player who's listing their IO for 14,999,999. If a bid comes in for 30M, their IO sells, your's don't. |
Originally Posted by Alkirin
I think I'm doing alot of this completely wrong...That, or the state of the market has changed in the past few months.
Could just be my bad luck, but items that run stable at 20m+ will suddenly drop to less than half of that the second I post an item at 15m, thinking I'm a smart guy by undercutting. Kinda feels like someone is waiting for me to invest in something before screwing me over at the last second...Even worse is when I see items consistently selling for more than what I've listed, while my listing just sits there until the prices fall low enough to put me further into the hole. Very fickle market, it seems. Going to end up with alot of expensive crap I'd have to probably give away. It's...Discouraging. Don't know how some of you people pull millions in days by it. |
In the guide, I recommend pricing IOs at 66% to 75% the going rate. I've put this range in to make it easy for people to remember and for 95% of most situations that works. However, what I do is price for the amount that yields me a modest profit. I have no hesitation to list a 20M+ IO for as little as 9.5M. I've probably bought the recipe for 2M, crafted it with salvage for another 3M and even minus marketing fees, I'll still have 4M+ profit if it sells at the listing price. More likely however, the IO will sell for 20M+ and I'll get the sale while people who are listing at 15M don't. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that someone else bought a 20M+ IO for 9.5M. I'm *still* making profit. Who cares if someone else gets a bargain.
The most common mistake I see beginning marketeers make is assuming that they are failing if they don't get the market price for the IOs they sell. Instead, they should be happy that their IO sold quickly and it freed up a slot for them to make another transaction. I always shake my head at situations where a player has listed an IO at near the market going rate and are frustrated when it sits there for weeks. IOs that you are selling, no matter how expensive, are not usable to you as influence unless they sell.
I understand that for the most part. What gets me are a particular few situations that seem to be recurring.
- Item with market value of 20m, I list at 15m or less while sales continue for 20m, sometimes damn near 50m. What, is everyone selling at below 3/4 of the going rate and nobody is aware of it, or is there something else to this?
- I place an item for sale at well below (sometimes half) market price, then for some reason the average sales on the item plummet as if it's just somehow lost all worth.
Though, I suppose the most frustrating of it all is that relisting isn't cheap for expensive items that don't sell for what seem like outright silly reasons. The solution to the first would be to just bite the bullet on it and hope it takes, sure. Though with the second, I don't know what to say to it.
The sense that I'm 'failing' comes from having items that I invested alot into, that I can't seem to get rid off unless I literally just give them away.
Edit: Some of this might seem incredulous...I should post some screens, I think.
Quote:
I don't think it's incredulous at all. What you describe has happened to everyone on occasion, including me.|
Originally Posted by Alkirin
Though, I suppose the most frustrating of it all is that relisting isn't cheap for expensive items that don't sell for what seem like outright silly reasons. The solution to the first would be to just bite the bullet on it and hope it takes, sure. Though with the second, I don't know what to say to it.
The sense that I'm 'failing' comes from having items that I invested alot into, that I can't seem to get rid off unless I literally just give them away. Edit: Some of this might seem incredulous...I should post some screens, I think. |
High value items are often times the most competitively fought niches and you'll see players do what they can to ensure their stuff sells. Those are also the niches most targeted by flippers. They're also not subjected to high turnovers and you may only see activity on these niches on the weekend when market activity is at their busiest.
So my guess is that you basically pulled this by quickly running a few 5-10m IOs during the end of the week/weekend?
Quote:
Nope. It can be done at just about any time though weekend activity is the most frenetic. And the technique can be used on a variety of IOs. Or am I misunderstanding your question?|
Originally Posted by Alkirin
So my guess is that you basically pulled this by quickly running a few 5-10m IOs during the end of the week/weekend?
|
Here's a haul from yesterday. I took this screenshot for my play journal thread referenced in my sig. Unfortunately, that's the most recent screenshot I have of marketeering.
This is very typical. I don't know if I can exactly reproduce the sales in this guide (involving Crushing Impact and Triage) largely because the market shifts but I can get similar results using other IOs.
Yeah, guess it's just beyond me then. Every time I try anything I hit one of the two snags mentioned before. Guess I'm just unlucky.
Seems lose-lose. I'm not listing to make insane profit or anything. I'd be happy enough just to cover the minimum cost in crafting, but I can't even get that sometimes. Might be looking at the wrong IO sets, probably.
Best part? I finally find a great deal to move on, and I get the "Black Market Cannot process your request, please try again later." Error. That's about time to give up on it, I think. Glad you can manage at least.
This is a guide that will instruct you on how to make as much influence/infamy as you want without resorting to any sort of farming. The steps do require a little bit of patience and some startup capital, however there is no "magic" scheme or anything complicated you need to do.
This method is ideal for players who don't have a lot of playing time and want to make inf while they are offline or doing something else in game.
Step 1: Check Prices
In the illustrated examples below, I look at the prices for two IOs, Crushing Impact Acc/Dmg/Rech and Triage Heal/End. I notice that the crafted IOs are sellling for significantly more than the recipes. The prices of the recipes are on the left, the crafted IOs on the right. Prices are circled in red.
Any recipe / crafted IO combination can be used. Just look at any IO that has a large disparity in price between for what the recipe sells and the crafted IO selling price.
Step 2: Acquire Recipes
Buy the recipe for slightly higher than the lowest price in the last 5 listed. In the illustrated example below, I bid on two Crushing Impact recipes for 500,001 inf each and two Triage recipes for 57,000 inf each. Be prepared to wait 2-3 days for these to fill. While, you're waiting, go play another alt or do something else. In the pictures you above, you will have noticed that the price for these recipes fluctuated quite a bit.
After you get the recipes, make bids on the salvage you need. You can pay the going market rate for most salvage you need or just run a couple of AE missions and buy them with tickets if they're too expensive. Generally, I just put in lowball bids at the market and just wait.
Step 3: Gather your ingredients, craft the IOs, then list them
Hopefully, this step is pretty self explanatory. The only tricky part is how much to list the finished IOs for. I recommend that you list for around 66% - 75% of the going market rate. This will ensure that your IO will sell relatively quickly and you can be assured of a decent profit even if you get *only* your listed price. Often times, you'll get more than what you're asking for.
In the illustrated example below, I've listed my crafted IOs for 3.75M and 1M respectively. The sharp-eyed among you will note that the Triage IO is listed at market price, not at 75% of the price. I listed that IO slightly higher because I have experience in selling that IO and know it can sell out quickly even at that price. The 3.75M price I listed the Crushing Impacts for is exactly 75% of the going market rate of 4M.
Step 4: Collect Profits!
WARNING: Some math below!
In this simple exercise, I sold 10M worth of IOs. My actual profit margin is lower since, I spent:
500,001 x 2 (cost of Crushing Impact recipes)
57,000 x 2 (cost of Triage recipes)
22,000 (total cost of Crushing Impact salvage bought at market)
8,000 (total cost of Triage salvage bought at market)
Subtotal: 1,144,002
490,400 x 2 (cost of crafting Crushing Impact recipes into IOs)
87,400 x 2 (cost of crating Triage recipes into IOs)
Subtotal: 1,155,600
400,000 (total cost of marketing fees for two Crushing Impacts)
100,000 (total cost of marketing fees for two Triage)
Subtotal: 500,000
Profit Calculation
10,000,000
-1,144,002
-1,155,600
-500,000
Total Profit: 7,200,398
Many people make the mistake of not factoring in crafting costs and market transactions fees. Crafting costs for a level 50 IO is around 490k inf and scale down as you go down in level. The transaction fees for any item you sell will equal roughly 5% of the total price for which it sells.
Last Words
Now 7.2M in profit doesn't sound like a lot but note that to acquire this wealth, I spent approximately 20 minutes in checking out recipe / IO prices, making bids, crafting the IOs when all the bids filled, listing the IOs for sale and then collecting profits. The 20 minutes even includes travel times between the market and the university where I crafted the IOs. In real time, it took me about 4 days for all the bids to fill and for everything to sell. In that time, I either played a different alt or didn't log in game.
The reason why this method works is because it's repeatable, it works with any number of IOs (just look for anything with a price disparity) and it can scale. I only used 4 IOs (and by far, *not* the most profitable examples) and was able to accumulate 7.2M with about 20 minutes of gaming time spent. Serious marketers can do far, far better using this method, especially if they uncover a niche, a high demand IO where the disparity in price between the recipe and crafted IO is very large. It is very possible to make tens of millions off of one crafted IO using this method.
One other thing I will mention is that IOs that improve damage or defensive powers (melee or ranged damage, heal, defense, resistance) have a faster turnaround than those that enhance status effects and debuffs (holds, stuns, confuse, defense debuff, tohit debuff). If you want faster turnarounds on the IOs you craft and list, learn to notice how fast certain IOs sell. Those IOs which sell daily are a better bet than those that only sell once per month.
I'd also like to mention that the character in which I performed these transactions is a level 18 Katana/Regen Scrapper I have over on Justice server. With this little bit of marketing, I acquired enough to fund her SOs for the near future. However, at the time of this writing, she has banked well over 600M using this simple method.