All Things Art: Building Edition
By
Agent_117,
Posted on: 2010-05-20 22:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I would like to see good Tailor House both Paragon City, Rogue Isle, and Praetoria. A place where we can all come and show off with a good atmosphere. You could put a little runway there too :P|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Three things I'd like to see (which may already have been mentioned):
Shopping mall(s) Amusement Park(s) Sports Stadia (baseball, football, hockey/basketball - as the largest city in America, PC should have several pro sports teams) All at least enterable, and maybe the Amusement Park(s) could be entirely new zones - a rundown, abandonded Park in the RI and an active one in PC. |
Samples I made for my base:
[center][IMG]http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h461/cohroguemagazine/Logos/sig.png[/IMG][/center]
[center][size=1][color=#FF99CC][font=Tahoma] GLOBAL: @Antoinette |[/font][/color][color=#FF99CC][font=Tahoma] MAIN: [/font][/color][url=http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Pinkrise][color=#FF99CC][font=tahoma]Pinkrise[/font][/color][/url][color=#FF99CC][font=Tahoma] | SG: [/font][/color][url=http://www.wix.com/netherealist/spitfire][color=#FF99CC][font=Tahoma]The Ethereals [/font][/color][/url][font=Tahoma][color=#FF99CC] | PROJECTS: [/font][/color][url=http://cohrm.wordpress.com][color=#FF99CC][font=tahoma]Rogue Magazine [/font][/color][/url][/size][/center]
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Amusement park???|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Three things I'd like to see (which may already have been mentioned):
Shopping mall(s) Amusement Park(s) Sports Stadia (baseball, football, hockey/basketball - as the largest city in America, PC should have several pro sports teams) All at least enterable, and maybe the Amusement Park(s) could be entirely new zones - a rundown, abandonded Park in the RI and an active one in PC. |
Welcome to the extradementional "Hero World" created with the help of Lord recluse and citizens like you.
Put it in the same aria space as Pocket D.
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A-freaking-men!|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I don't think there should be any all-new zones, blueside or redside, until the current zones fill up more.
I think the work and time should be put into revamps of the older existing zones (both art and content-wise). Make those 'new' again. New zones attract people to the game, but they also split up the existing players so that the game feels 'empty', especially with all of the instancing. I think we have hit a point of diminishing returns on this. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Very nicely done
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Originally Posted by Antoinette
I would like to see good Tailor House both Paragon City, Rogue Isle, and Praetoria. A place where we can all come and show off with a good atmosphere. You could put a little runway there too :P
Samples I made for my base: |
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That being said it is dificult finding a presice location on the map. That /loc works but is still hard to use. Something more like this would be nice. |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Sounds cool for sure, but would be a very unlikely addition. Lot of work for relatively little gain. You can achieve much the same effect by saying 'hey, north of the TPN campus.'
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Using sliders or just typing in the location numbers to create a custom thumbtack location.
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I love redside..and I'm gonna say it THANK YOU!!!!! Something fun and fresh on villain side would be really appreciated.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I'm aware of this, and I whole-heartedly agree. Next new redside zone will certainly offer something fresh and new.
And fortunately, this is exactly the tack we took with Praetoria: there's a LOT of architectural, color, and tonal contrast among the new zones, and I think it gives all players, regardless of personal taste, something to really latch onto. |
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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Heh, been a long time since I read the intro, thanks. Huh. I guess I can mark it up to the fact that we don't see much of what's outside the War Walls. I suppose if Metropolis can be a huge city in tiny Rhode Island for years, so can Paragon. |
mousedroid points out: I guess looks can be deceiving (see third paragraph) |
Dec out.
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Niiiiice!|
Antoinette designs: I would like to see good Tailor House both Paragon City, Rogue Isle, and Praetoria. A place where we can all come and show off with a good atmosphere. You could put a little runway there too :P Samples I made for my base:
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If nothing else, I want better overhead lighting in Icon. That wall sconce stuff makes it a touch difficult to take decent pictures.
Dec out.
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What about a in base Icon system.
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Originally Posted by Decorum
Niiiiice!
If nothing else, I want better overhead lighting in Icon. That wall sconce stuff makes it a touch difficult to take decent pictures. |
I would not object in the least. 
Even if it had to be unlocked with SG badges.
Dec out.
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The problem is that even the "posh" areas in CoV still feel depressing. It feels like they were going for a Brazil motif where everything is hollow and depressing, and even the rich and powerful live empty, hopeless lives with filth and depression just outside of earshot.|
Originally Posted by SirFrederick
The funny thing about redside is that the posh areas are there, but they're kind of... out of the way. I mean, the typical villain will pass through fair-to-middling Mercy, and the expensive parts of St Martial, but a lot more could be done with, say, central/east New Haven. Having worked for Golden Roller, Dr Percey and Marshall Brass, I want to get into Langston Corp mansion and find out just who's behind the Brickers. And Villa Requin in Sharkhead? I'd seen it on the map, but I was flummoxed to see what was actually there! It deserves more exposure in gameplay and story!
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I don't know if I'm biassed because I live in a former Soviet state where this is basically status quo, but this sort of attitude just... Doesn't work for me. I want to see good, affluent, high-class zones where the rich are not just as damned as the poor, which simply isn't the case. Kirk Cage's stronghold is basically an inside-out prison, Johnny Sonata's Golden Giza has a nice view of the devastated zone out back and Johnny is cursed and screwed, and the height of Arachnos conquest - Grandville - feels like a slum from top to bottom. It feels like frikkin Brazil, come to think of it!
A Praetoria-style clean zone that doesn't have the rich look out onto the slum from their windows would be great.
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You know... This reminds me of my old University building. It had the following views out the windows:
West: Grain silos, empty lots and uninhabited buildings.
North: Old, rusted-out, overgrown hangars, junkyards, abandoned buildings and a small town far into the distance.
East: A HUGE 20-year-old pooly-maintained Soviet-era hospital with old junker ambulances parked in front and lots of old sick people coming about, with a large wild overgrown forest in-between.
South: No windows in that direction, but the few terraces showed an overgrown, un-maintained courtayrd with bushes growing onto the paths a rusted-brown fence.
Talk about depressing. And it was a pretty good, modern building, too. It was just built in the asscrack of the city.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'll have to agree with this too.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I don't think there should be any all-new zones, blueside or redside, until the current zones fill up more.
I think the work and time should be put into revamps of the older existing zones (both art and content-wise). Make those 'new' again. New zones attract people to the game, but they also split up the existing players so that the game feels 'empty', especially with all of the instancing. I think we have hit a point of diminishing returns on this. |
Updating the art/buildings and content/arcs in our existing zones is more bang for the buck in my opinion. Improve city layout or buildings - definately. Maybe remove some of the repition in these arcs by working in some newer maps or utilize any of the numerous enemy groups that have been brought into the game since launch. Missions from the original CoH contacts has never changed in over 6 years. In any case, it can take what we have done a thousand times and make it new, refeshing and look better.
This is just my own opinion, but I'd like to see Back Alley Brawler and the Galaxy starter contacts moved to Atlas Park and something new and more useful re-envisioned for Galaxy City, instead of it being a second starter zone. Maybe move the whole building somewhere in Atlas. By moving BABs to Atlas, all the low levels will be in the same zone and quite possibly all those Galaxy starter contacts that are not getting played may find a new audience.
Why would you have two trainers in Atlas? For that matter, why is it necessary to move BAB in order to redo Galaxy? A lot of people like using Galaxy to avoid Atlas entirely.
Dec out.
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This would be really cool then bring in the city busses so you could ride to a different intersection. |
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Would it be possible to name all the streets (where feasible) and then put up street signs with those names on there... give players a 'real-world' point of reference when finding places, contacts, objects, events and each other?
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I would also like to be able to input coordinates some where and have it set a waypoint or thumb tack in that location to make navigating easier.
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You don't necessarily need two trainers. I'm also fine with him staying in GC. But, if that building was moved to another part of Atlas, for an example, then a trainer by all those contacts inside the building would make sense. |
Originally Posted by Decorum
Why would you have two trainers in Atlas? For that matter, why is it necessary to move BAB in order to redo Galaxy? A lot of people like using Galaxy to avoid Atlas entirely.
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Mercy Island has two trainers and thats most likely because low levels move to another part of the map to run missions around level 5. If there was no trainer by these new contacts, players would have to run to the northeast corner of the map everytime they leveled. If the Galaxy building and contacts were moved, then a trainer by the contacts makes sense... unless they are located near City Hall.
Ah, so your main thrust is making all the opening contacts more available? Hmmm...frankly, I'd rather they just redid the whole opening experience, from the tutorial out. I wonder exactly how Praetoria's will work out. More to think about after I see, I guess.
Dec out.
I've said it before: No new zones, spend your effort bringing the old ones in line with the new tech.
Hello, my name is @Caligdoiel and I'm an altoholic.
A bit of Meta sentiment related to our zones and architecture:
Was just browsing through some screenshots and verbal descriptions of the forthcoming WoW expansion over at IGN today. The degree to which they are revamping their own legacy zones really stirs hopes in me that someday this is what Paragon will decide to do over simply adding new zones.
Similar to WoW, our game overall, the development team, the narrative and mythology and how each of us individually and communally play the game has evolved quite a bit since release. Most of these zones were conceived and crafted between 6 and 7 years ago when MMOs were at a different stage of their evolution. I think CoX could continue to lead the way as a great, maturing MMO. But the old zones really need both functional and aesthetic makeovers.
There are so many great seeds of stories and zone concepts already in game--Crey's Folly, Eden and The Shard being three examples--that just hang there in space as great ambiguous far from fully realized ideas that currently serve nominal purpose and function in game. I really hope the development team dares to repaint these canvases someday.
And yeah, I realize when you're talking the production budget Blizzard has versus Paragon, it's like comparing Waterworld to community theatre... (or maybe an old Hal Hartley film at least). Just the same, the more I sit with the idea of a majority of energy going into new zones and further diluting the player base, the more leery I get of future updates. (Even though I too was supportive of some sort of outerspace or lunar zone but a year ago!)
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Updating old zones doesn't solve the problem that I'm SICK TO DEATH of Cap Au Diable and Sharkhead Island. I don't want more things to do in them. I want another zone completely independent of those two. I don't care if you change buildings, I don't care if you move around contacts, I don't care if you add more stories. I do not want to see Cap Au Diable and Sharkhead Island EVER AGAIN.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Dog
Updating the art/buildings and content/arcs in our existing zones is more bang for the buck in my opinion. Improve city layout or buildings - definately. Maybe remove some of the repition in these arcs by working in some newer maps or utilize any of the numerous enemy groups that have been brought into the game since launch. Missions from the original CoH contacts has never changed in over 6 years. In any case, it can take what we have done a thousand times and make it new, refeshing and look better.
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There has been this inexplicable drive for "quality over quantity" in City of Heroes that's been around pretty much since CoV came out, where instead of adding new locations, old locations keep being reused and re-tweaked. Five years later, I know them by heart, and I'm sick to death of them. City of Villains has all of seven zones - Mercy Island, Port Oaks, Cap Au Diable, Sharkhead Island, Nerva Archipelago, St. Martial and Grandville. And I know ever square inch of those zones by heart. I do not want alternations to those zones. I want new zones that I've not seen before. I want more variety than just seeing the same five locations in the same two zones for 10 levels at a time.
For all the crap people give City of Heroes zones, at least there's so much sheer land area in there that I keep coming back to places and zones I haven't been to in ages. There is enough variety in City of Heroes that it's much harder to get burned out on the scenery. City of Villains has no variety at all. In the VERY RARE occasions that two zones overlap for content, the zone-locked stories nevertheless keep you locked in the same location, staring at the same God damn black sand and the same damnable brown brick buildings. If there's one point where I'm more likely to abandon a villain at than any other, it's 20-25. I HATE SHARKHEAD ISLAND!!!
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| This is just my own opinion, but I'd like to see Back Alley Brawler and the Galaxy starter contacts moved to Atlas Park and something new and more useful re-envisioned for Galaxy City, instead of it being a second starter zone. Maybe move the whole building somewhere in Atlas. By moving BABs to Atlas, all the low levels will be in the same zone and quite possibly all those Galaxy starter contacts that are not getting played may find a new audience. |
We need more zones. Maybe not in City of Heroes, but in City of Villains most definitely. City of Villains feels like I've been locked in the same old room with the same old toys for six years. I've already played even with the toys I hate, I've already explored even behind the bookcases, and the view out the windows is so ingrained into the backs of my eyes you could project a negative if you shone a flashlight on my neck. The CoV world is far, far too small. It needs to be bigger, and by a LOT.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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So.... You detest my idea because you are bored with the game. Perhaps you should look into Champions Online. It will be all shiney and new to you.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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There has been this inexplicable drive for "quality over quantity" in City of Heroes that's been around pretty much since CoV came out, where instead of adding new locations, old locations keep being reused and re-tweaked. Five years later, I know them by heart, and I'm sick to death of them. City of Villains has all of seven zones - Mercy Island, Port Oaks, Cap Au Diable, Sharkhead Island, Nerva Archipelago, St. Martial and Grandville. And I know ever square inch of those zones by heart. I do not want alternations to those zones. I want new zones that I've not seen before. I want more variety than just seeing the same five locations in the same two zones for 10 levels at a time. For all the crap people give City of Heroes zones, at least there's so much sheer land area in there that I keep coming back to places and zones I haven't been to in ages. There is enough variety in City of Heroes that it's much harder to get burned out on the scenery. City of Villains has no variety at all. In the VERY RARE occasions that two zones overlap for content, the zone-locked stories nevertheless keep you locked in the same location, staring at the same God damn black sand and the same damnable brown brick buildings. If there's one point where I'm more likely to abandon a villain at than any other, it's 20-25. I HATE SHARKHEAD ISLAND!!! |
I have a five level 50 villians (played - not farmed - from 1 to 50) and many others that just havent made it that far yet. I have no issues with sharkhead, cap, port oakes, mercy, any of them. I would agree a new zone would add a little something new to the redside. That being said, if they do add a zone it will be a zone with a range. It certainly will not be 1-50, it could be 25-30. If thats the case, you are still going to hate playing the redside.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
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I think the biggest issue with the buildings in game is that they are too static and unchanging. That really isn't the case with large buildings in the real world, they are in a constant state of flux, landscaping is changed, windows are washed and the parking lots fill and empty, street level scaffolding also goes up from time to time.
Another thing I would like to see change is that some of the static storefronts be replaced with transparent windows that display interiors complete with NPC staff and shoppers. These do not need to be accessible to players but it would be cool to see some indoor activity in the light commercial sections of the urban neighborhoods.
I would also like to see suburban neighborhoods added to places like Galaxy City, The Hollows, Dark Astoria and Croatoa.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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I'm not bored with the game. But I do feel extremely constrained when starting a new villain. The progression through the zones is completely linear: Mercy - Port Oakes - Cap Au Diable - Sharkshead - Nerva or St. Martial, then St. Martial - Grandville.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Dog
So.... You detest my idea because you are bored with the game. Perhaps you should look into Champions Online. It will be all shiney and new to you.
You know this paragraph makes my head hurt. You claim to not want to redo the current zones because you've started in Galaxy for the last 6 years but you are saying you are so bored with running past the same building, the same enemies, etc. You are in effect, sir, making the case for redoing the starting zones instead of making new zones. |
It's only when you get past Sharkshead that the choices vary even a little, and that range just gives you a choice between Nerva or St. Martial.
And Sharkshead has a serious problem on the most populated servers. It is the one zone that is likely to have terrible problems; terrible lag, horrible rubber banding, and complete zone crashes happen more frequently with Sharkshead than they do with any other zone in the game.
Meanwhile, Paragon City has something of the opposite problem: There's too much City. Boomtown is an empty wasteland and one of the largest zones in the game, as one example. On the bright side, there are still parts of it I haven't seen in four years of play. On the downside, half of the contacts send me on extravagant and unnecessary tours of the city; "Go talk to this guy a couple zones away, who will send you to talk to that guy clear across the city, who will send you to Azuria, who will tell you to come back to me".
The starter zones on both sides need a revamp, but not a collapse into forcing everyone into Atlas Park. Instead, I'd like to see a second line of zones to go through in the Isles, a little more diversity, and yes, lighten parts of it up. The isles might be under sanction by the USA, but not necessarily the rest of the world. It has a tourist destination in St. Martial and the other casinos; clean and fix that area up. Start rebuilding or at least cleaning up parts of Mercy; five years is a LONG time for those debris piles to keep burning.
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The I seem to remember hearing that original telaport power let you drop anywhere you wanted on a map but It was quickly changed because of so many players getting stuck. So, what about a new version that had a number of drop points all over the map.|
Originally Posted by Frozen_Fire
This would be really cool then bring in the city busses so you could ride to a different intersection.
I would also like to be able to input coordinates some where and have it set a waypoint or thumb tack in that location to make navigating easier. |
Or recreate the original version only drop them some distance over the map that could clear the outdoor problems not much to get stuck in way up there. And disable it on the inside maps.
I think something in the same style as City Hall would look very grand.
And for some reason, if the resources could be spared, I'd love to see a Galaxy City Air and Space museum.
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