Dual Pistols / Super Reflexes
By
BellaStrega,
Posted on: 2010-05-10 10:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Who do you think you are, Captain Picard?
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Yes. I'm a Frenchman with a British accent.
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
Scrappers do not get Blast sets.
Also, before anyone brings up the idea, Pistol Melee is a retarded concept. That movie with 'Gun Kata' was also retarded. I'd even take Shield Blast over Pistol Melee.
I know, I know, just because I don't like X doesn't mean others should be denied the choice, but... Come on. Using firearms in melee defeats the purpose of a firearm. We already have a dancy Dual Pistols set full of goofy pirouettes and holding a gun sideways like a true gansta because that totally doesn't make it nearly impossible to hit what you're shooting at. Can we try to keep the new sets from getting too facepalm-inducing?
My face still hurts from seeing Bullet Rain.
Rant over. Sorry about that.
I wouldn't mind Dual Pistols / Martial Arts but never giving us what we really want and leaving us forever hoping for it maybe one way of keeping us in the game.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Now, a new Blaster secondary that borrows moves from Martial Arts mixed in with enough utility for a proper Manipulation set would be incredibly awesome, I'd definitely approve of something like that. Shoot things until they get close, then Crane Kick them away.
Assault/Armour AT. That is all.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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/dead horse. Scrappers will not get dual pistols. The best we can hope for is a temporary dual pistol power to match the single pistol. That actually doesn't sound like a bad idea. hmm....
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Hey!
Look it's some guy hitting people with guns!
Don't you think he might be more effective with..say...a sword made of Impervium?
Maybe, but it makes for such a cool concept!
<yawn>
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Crab Spider.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Assault/Armour AT. That is all.
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Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Oh, for people being dense...
Yeah, a MELEE set for pistols is... it... Super Hyper Uber Retarded-Pants-On-Head doesn't really cover it.
I dont think anyone (in their right mind) *asked* for a melee pistol set.
What would be great is Dual Pistols as they are now, y'know, ranged...Coupled with an armour set. As in, Super Reflexes. Or Invulnerability.
Now, since people seem to instantly go "ZOMFG Tankmage, Tankmage wanter, waah!" at the very mention of the notion of a ranged/armour AT, let me smack you one upside the head and get you to think for a moment.
Ok, so, Ranged/Armour or Assault/Armour is effectively what EATs at the moment get. They have a mixed choice of ranged attacks and melee attacks, coupled with an armour/self-support secondary.
Thats not arguable. Its fact. Its built into the game right this minute. And its balanced. Are they Tankmages? No. Can they be very powerful? Yes. So can every other AT in the game.
So, is the idea of the possibility of a ranged/armour AT broken? No. Because the Devs are more than capable of not screwing things up and making a broken AT/Set combo. They've done it with EATs. So anyone claiming its not possible is in denial of whats actually already happened.
And, No, the EATs will not suffice. If you make a Kheldian or a Spider then you are stuck with certain power colours, weapon choices, et cetera et cetera. It would be nice to have a more open concept to mess around with. Such as Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes, or Energy Blast/Invulnerability. Heck, Fire Blast/Fire Armour?
Maybe that would help FA suck less for some people...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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See above post which was WIP while you poste |
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
Crab Spider.
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Crab Spiders are stuck looking like Arachnos troops. They are a locked, inflexible concept. They ARE a good example of how it can be balanced, though. So saying a Ranged/Armour AT is a tankmage is blatantly untrue, by the Devs measure of balance.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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^ is all well and fine, but there's nothing wrong with having more choices.
Edit : Techbotspam ! My reply was directed to the "Crab Spider" comment.
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Mwuahaha! You cannot escape my machinations, fleshling! |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
^ is all well and fine, but there's nothing wrong with having more choices.
Edit : Techbotspam ! My reply was directed to the "Crab Spider" comment. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'll agree, it can be done... but I doubt it would be done in a manner which would please many people who want it done. If you gave a combatant an assault set I think there might be some expectations that it do assault damage. While not everyone would play for power I don't think it's too outlandish a statement to say that there would be cries of 'useless AT' if the proposed ranged/armor set was balanced around, say, having defender damage values. Which, in my opinion, would be around the right level of damage output that would be balanced for our hypothetical AT - that way it doesn't outshine pure ranged damage dealers like Blasters with its damage.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Personally, I'd play a ranged/armor AT with defender mods for damage/HP and blaster mods for def/res - that is to say, low on everything.
I can agree such an AT would be considered ridiculously weak by many... To be honest, if I could play a FF defender without having to deal with the gigantic, concept breaking GFX of Dispersion Bubble, I'd just do that. 
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People still plays Corruptors. Do they go in with expectations of Blaster level damage and Defender level buff/debuffs?|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
I'll agree, it can be done... but I doubt it would be done in a manner which would please many people who want it done. If you gave a combatant an assault set I think there might be some expectations that it do assault damage. While not everyone would play for power I don't think it's too outlandish a statement to say that there would be cries of 'useless AT' if the proposed ranged/armor set was balanced around, say, having defender damage values. Which, in my opinion, would be around the right level of damage output that would be balanced for our hypothetical AT - that way it doesn't outshine pure ranged damage dealers like Blasters with its damage.
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Again, the balance has already been achieved pretty well. EATs manage to do it without being overpowered, why not use them as a base model? Just with less constrained power sets, and only 9 tiers as standard ATs get.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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that would be too low, I think. I was thinking ~corruptor damage with ~scrapper armor numbers, so they're not the top dogs in either, but still a viable option. There is still that whole ranged advantage though, adding Hover to an AT like that makes them an almost un-killable(read: Hovercrab) machine who can solo most EB/AVs with little to no effort. But at the same time, I don't have a single toon that can't solo the majority of EB/AVs out there, even my blasters can do it when they need to with a little help from lucks.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
Personally, I'd play a ranged/armor AT with defender mods for damage/HP and blaster mods for def/res - that is to say, low on everything.
I can agree such an AT would be considered ridiculously weak by many... To be honest, if I could play a FF defender without having to deal with the gigantic, concept breaking GFX of Dispersion Bubble, I'd just do that. |
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Honestly, why does that matter?| There is still that whole ranged advantage though, adding Hover to an AT like that makes them an almost un-killable(read: Hovercrab) machine who can solo most EB/AVs with little to no effort. |
At some point you have to prioritize player fun over fear of somebody possibly deciding to do something with too little effort, especially if:
1. It wouldn't be a farm issue because the described method is not fast and there are no major rewards for soloing EB/AV.
2. People can already do it with less effort by having IOs or even powerset combos.
Every mob can attack you, they just can't melee you, so it would not be that much of an advantage if the AT had appropriate stats.
See also travel supression as an example of putting a fear of a person doing something easily (but not with any efficiency to speak of) over fun.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
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In addition to the ranged advantage, in my opinion the most fundamental obstacle to overcome with such an AT is this: Why the heck would you bother inviting one to a team?|
Originally Posted by Obsidian_Farmer
that would be too low, I think. I was thinking ~corruptor damage with ~scrapper armor numbers, so they're not the top dogs in either, but still a viable option. There is still that whole ranged advantage though, adding Hover to an AT like that makes them an almost un-killable(read: Hovercrab) machine who can solo most EB/AVs with little to no effort. But at the same time, I don't have a single toon that can't solo the majority of EB/AVs out there, even my blasters can do it when they need to with a little help from lucks.
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Corrupters/Defenders have powerful buffs and debuffs to enhance their contribution. Blasters have high damage. VEATs bring the sweet, sweet team defense buffs that people love so much. HEATS... uh... hmm... well, actually I've been in several teams that will run with 6 people over invite a Kheld (side note: Peacebringer is one of my favorite ATs. Don't accuse me of being racist.
). Dominators bring heavy control with their high damage.What would corrupter damage/scrapper defenses actually contribute to a team to seperate it from one of the existing ranged ATs?
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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You answered your own question.|
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
HEATS... uh... hmm... well, actually I've been in several teams that will run with 6 people over invite a Kheld (side note: Peacebringer is one of my favorite ATs. Don't accuse me of being racist.
). Dominators bring heavy control with their high damage.What would corrupter damage/scrapper defenses actually contribute to a team to seperate it from one of the existing ranged ATs? |
Ranged damage without the risk of faceplanting as fast as Blasters do. Less damage balanced by less squish-factor.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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It gives you a ranged AT that doesn't need any help from other player because it can live on it own. So if the tank/brute/etc.. dies then it might not be a team wipe because they can live a lot easier than the other ranges AT. But yes they really don't contribute more than anyother AT. | What would corrupter damage/scrapper defenses actually contribute to a team to seperate it from one of the existing ranged ATs? |
But if people don't want to team with me because of my AT and/or Power sets then that is some people I don't want to team with.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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It isn't always an issue, no, but the ranged advantage, even without the addition of something like hover, is something to be considered for balancing the defense set numbers, that's the only reason I mentioned it. I was merely using Hover as an example of a way to take advantage of that even more.|
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Honestly, why does that matter?
At some point you have to prioritize player fun over fear of somebody possibly deciding to do something with too little effort, especially if: 1. It wouldn't be a farm issue because the described method is not fast and there are no major rewards for soloing EB/AV. 2. People can already do it with less effort by having IOs or even powerset combos. Every mob can attack you, they just can't melee you, so it would not be that much of an advantage if the AT had appropriate stats. See also travel supression as an example of putting a fear of a person doing something easily (but not with any efficiency to speak of) over fun. |
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Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
What would corrupter damage/scrapper defenses actually contribute to a team to seperate it from one of the existing ranged ATs?
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That's fine for soloing. My concern was for contribution to teamplay.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You answered your own question.
Ranged damage without the risk of faceplanting as fast as Blasters do. Less damage balanced by less squish-factor. |
For an AT that isn't meant to hold aggro how does less squish factor help anyone but the player of that character? The team doesn't care if the blaster faceplants every spawn, unless they're going for a "Master of..." run, except for the aggrevation of helping him combine inspirations for awakens.
As an example, I've done more than one ITF with only my mez protection running on a scrapper - the rest of my defensive set was unneccessary: between the tanker holding aggro and the AoE damage being flung around I never took enough damage to bother toggling up. What was I contributing? Spike damage vs bosses mostly, with decent AoE damage to boot (broadsword). I was not offtanking, as I couldn't even if I wanted to = I don't have Confront and anything that peeled off the tanker headed for the blasters.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
Seldom posted an absolute gem a few months back.
So the next time someone asks for this, post the following:
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Originally Posted by Seldom
I think I've figure out how to make pistols a viable melee set. Here's how it could work:
1. Pistol whip You pull out your gun, and whack someone over the head with it 2. Dual Pistol whip You hit them with both of your guns. Hey, they're metal. Metal is hard! it's bound to hurt them! Low chance of looking ridiculous. 3. Point blank shot You shoot a foe at close range, dealing great damage. You can only use this at melee range, as your aim is just that bad. 4. Pistol whip frenzy You swing your pistol around like crazy, with a chance to clonk enemies on the head. Carries a heavy chance of looking ridiculous. 5. Confront You challenge a single foe. Notice, if you recently looked ridiculous, this will fail. 6. Unload clips You unload all your rounds, but since your aim is bad, this must be used at melee range. 10% chance of shooting yourself in the foot (Heavy ridiculous debuff) 7. Rage You get really angry..the more ridiculous you've looked, the more damage you do. 8. Shoot everything You shoot everything. Warning, this can damage allies. 10% chance to shoot yourself in the face. 9. Dual pistol whip again and again You choose a target and hit them again and again with both of your guns. 75% chance of looking ridiculous. I know, it could be overpowered, but I think it's a necessary set for any hand to hand fighter. |
I watched The Matrix for the Nth time this weekend on my Blu-ray player. Now I want a Dual Pistols / Super Reflexes Scrapper, dang it. Make it so!
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too