Dual Pistols / Super Reflexes


BellaStrega

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad View Post
That's fine for soloing. My concern was for contribution to teamplay.

For an AT that isn't meant to hold aggro how does less squish factor help anyone but the player of that character? The team doesn't care if the blaster faceplants every spawn, unless they're going for a "Master of..." run, except for the aggrevation of helping him combine inspirations for awakens.
A dead blaster deals 0 DPS during the time he's dead and has to be taken care of unless he has RoTP or wakies. Letting teammates die is generally inefficient unless you happen to have Fallout/Vengeance and their damage contribution is low enough to be irrelevant.

Quote:
As an example, I've done more than one ITF with only my mez protection running on a scrapper - the rest of my defensive set was unneccessary: between the tanker holding aggro and the AoE damage being flung around I never took enough damage to bother toggling up. What was I contributing? Spike damage vs bosses mostly, with decent AoE damage to boot (broadsword). I was not offtanking, as I couldn't even if I wanted to = I don't have Confront and anything that peeled off the tanker headed for the blasters.
Well, there's lots of ways to skin a cat in CoH but I'd argue you possibly weren't playing as efficiently as you could have been in that situation. If stuff dies so fast you don't take damage without toggling up, it's extremely likely there's some overkill damage in there. You could toggle up and aggro other groups, either to fight them or lure them near the tanker. I've been on teams like that (damage high enough that mobs just evaporate), and the difference in speed between everyone fighting just one or two groups at a time near the tanker, and scrappers/brutes/additional tankers going left and right aggroing more is night and day (although, to be fair, the potential for things to go south is also increased).


 

Posted

Everybody flaming Equilibrium is wrong. Celestial Lord is right, even though it will never happen.

Seldom's post is ridiculous and milehigh77 is ridiculous for reposting it.


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Well, there's lots of ways to skin a cat in CoH but I'd argue you possibly weren't playing as efficiently as you could have been in that situation. If stuff dies so fast you don't take damage without toggling up, it's extremely likely there's some overkill damage in there. You could toggle up and aggro other groups, either to fight them or lure them near the tanker. I've been on teams like that (damage high enough that mobs just evaporate), and the difference in speed between everyone fighting just one or two groups at a time near the tanker, and scrappers/brutes/additional tankers going left and right aggroing more is night and day (although, to be fair, the potential for things to go south is also increased).
An /elec scrapper jumping into another spawn on an ITF? Parry is good and all but... not that good. I'd be dead before the first parry finished animating. Those romans are dynamite.


Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."

 

Posted

Yeah, I can see your point, especially with their stacked grant covers making Parry not always as reliable as it is against everything else. I kind of went with a black&white argument here and forgot it's perfectly possible to have too much mitigation for the task at hand while not having enough to overaggro.

How's this for another approach ? *A-hem* :

See, that is where a ranged/armor AT could have it's use ! Romans don't hit so hard at range, and with ranged attacks you could just shoot a targeted AoE on them and lure them to the tanker in relative safety.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaliMagdalene View Post
Everybody flaming Equilibrium is wrong. Celestial Lord is right, even though it will never happen.

Seldom's post is ridiculous and milehigh77 is ridiculous for reposting it.
Spike detected: Recent Humour Failing
Diet suggestion: Take melee pistol post: Addition: Pinch of Salt


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

I would imagine a ranged / armor AT would have Corruptor level damage, with Scrapper level armor. I fail to see how that would be unbalanced. As far as contributing to teams, they would contribute just as much as any Kheldian. Yes, Kheldians have their specific weakness, but it's been watered down so much over time that it's practically pointless.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

Posted

Make a new archetype for heroes and villians wanting certian defensive and offensive powers, just use some of the scrapper and stalkers secondary sets,( i think heroes should hide too) and with the scrapping primary power set limit the use as a secondary and use it as a halfway secondary defensive with only stuns,knockdowns,slows and knockback etc.
You could call heroes Crusaders(like Batman)for heroes and Vandals for villians or whateveryou want its your game lol.


 

Posted

[QUOTE=retsnom1;2856415]Make a new Archetype for heroes and villians wanting certian defensive and offensive powers, just use some of the scrapper and stalkers secondary sets,( i think heroes should hide too) and with the scrapping primary power set limit the use as a secondary and use it as a halfway secondary defensive with only stuns,knockdowns,slows and knockback etc.
You could call heroes Crusaders(like Batman)for heroes and Vandals for villians or whateveryou want its your game lol. I hope this could work its about time for a new kind of Archetype for a ranged/defensive toon anyway.


 

Posted

Any AT name: Blast/Defense

Guardian: Buff/Melee

Trickster: Control/Defense like Faultline (with some minor attacks in place of 1 or 2 powers, so they can solo)


A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

Posted

Make a new archetype for heroes and villians wanting certian defensive and offensive powers, just use some of the scrapper and stalkers secondary sets,( i think heroes should hide too) and with the scrapping primary power set limit the use as a secondary and use it as a halfway secondary defensive with only stuns,knockdowns,slows and knockback etc.
You could call heroes Crusaders(like Batman)for heroes and Vandals for villians or whateveryou want its your game lol.


 

Posted

... Kinda odd for a duplicate post three hours later.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Blitzkrieger View Post
holding a gun sideways like a true gansta because that totally doesn't make it nearly impossible to hit what you're shooting at
There's that, and also because shell casings are hot when they get ejected. My brother once ejected a .22 casing out of lever-action rifle with the rifle sideways. Thing flew up in the air, over his head, and right down the back of his shirt. Funny to watch, painful to experience.

On the other hand it's just a game and people just have to let some **** go. I once got a pile of harassing tells from a guy because the character I was playing was a female army ranger, and they apparently don't let women in the rangers. You can throw fire and channel electricity through your fists, but my chick can't be a ranger.

And while the op may have been in jest, I am, for the record, opposed to pistol melee because yes, it is ridiculous, as is the number of commas in the sentence.


They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

 

Posted

I once had a really long conversation with someone who was bent out of shape over the power being "Empty Clips" and not "Empty Magazines", completely ignoring the realities of colloquial English.


 

Posted

'Colloquial' doesn't mean 'not dumb'.

Nothing to get bent out of shape over, but still, wouldn't mind that getting corrected. Not that it's going to happen, mind you. I think BAB once said that old power names are pretty much not going to get changed, ever, in response to people pointing out how retardedly named the Super Strength powers were.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col_Blitzkrieger View Post
'Colloquial' doesn't mean 'not dumb'.
No, it means "common usage". It's a living language; as much as I hate some of the evolutions, it does evolve.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
I watched The Matrix for the Nth time this weekend on my Blu-ray player. Now I want a Dual Pistols / Super Reflexes Scrapper, dang it. Make it so!
Your in luck! You too can make custom enemies for AE missions that have dual pistols and super reflexes!

But the devs have stated flat out that scrappers will not get dual pistols.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Oh, for people being dense...

Yeah, a MELEE set for pistols is... it... Super Hyper Uber Retarded-Pants-On-Head doesn't really cover it.

I dont think anyone (in their right mind) *asked* for a melee pistol set.
What would be great is Dual Pistols as they are now, y'know, ranged...Coupled with an armour set. As in, Super Reflexes. Or Invulnerability.

Now, since people seem to instantly go "ZOMFG Tankmage, Tankmage wanter, waah!" at the very mention of the notion of a ranged/armour AT, let me smack you one upside the head and get you to think for a moment.

Ok, so, Ranged/Armour or Assault/Armour is effectively what EATs at the moment get. They have a mixed choice of ranged attacks and melee attacks, coupled with an armour/self-support secondary.
Thats not arguable. Its fact. Its built into the game right this minute. And its balanced. Are they Tankmages? No. Can they be very powerful? Yes. So can every other AT in the game.

So, is the idea of the possibility of a ranged/armour AT broken? No. Because the Devs are more than capable of not screwing things up and making a broken AT/Set combo. They've done it with EATs. So anyone claiming its not possible is in denial of whats actually already happened.

And, No, the EATs will not suffice. If you make a Kheldian or a Spider then you are stuck with certain power colours, weapon choices, et cetera et cetera. It would be nice to have a more open concept to mess around with. Such as Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes, or Energy Blast/Invulnerability. Heck, Fire Blast/Fire Armour?
Maybe that would help FA suck less for some people...
And... they get lower damage modifiers too! Yeah, imagine that.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad View Post
In addition to the ranged advantage, in my opinion the most fundamental obstacle to overcome with such an AT is this: Why the heck would you bother inviting one to a team?

Corrupters/Defenders have powerful buffs and debuffs to enhance their contribution. Blasters have high damage. VEATs bring the sweet, sweet team defense buffs that people love so much. HEATS... uh... hmm... well, actually I've been in several teams that will run with 6 people over invite a Kheld (side note: Peacebringer is one of my favorite ATs. Don't accuse me of being racist. ). Dominators bring heavy control with their high damage.

What would corrupter damage/scrapper defenses actually contribute to a team to seperate it from one of the existing ranged ATs?

Dominators, high damage? Uhhhhhh, news to me. I love my dominator, but it's only 'high damage' when compared to my controller. They are medium damage.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
I would imagine a ranged / armor AT would have Corruptor level damage, with Scrapper level armor. I fail to see how that would be unbalanced. As far as contributing to teams, they would contribute just as much as any Kheldian. Yes, Kheldians have their specific weakness, but it's been watered down so much over time that it's practically pointless.
Kelds do rather low damage with their human form attacks and dwarf form attacks. Their nova form attacks do really good damage, BUT lack damage mitigation. Gimme a sec to pull up some (enhanced) numbers.

Dark Detonation does 62.02 damage at level 33 (after a +96.5 enhancement bonus). It's a targeted AOE so I'm gonna compare it to one from a set with high damage. Mind you, this is a warshade, which is classified as a medium damage AT.

Defenders are also classified as a medium damage AT, so let's look at a targeted aoe power for them too. At level 33 Explosive Arrow does 52.98 or so damage with the same enhancement value. This is on a defender though. Seems pretty close however. But what about blasters, a high damage AT?

Same power as the defender, same enhancement value. 97.70 damage. Mind you, this is before the stacking damage buffs gained from simply attacking.

Scrappers get damage on par with blasters, and armors. True enough, but they also must be in melee. Which is where most enemies hit the hardest. And kelds too get damage resistance powers, BUT if played well can spend a large portion of the time in melee range too. Something tells me we'll never get a pure ranged blast AT with access to armors in their secondary.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
Your in luck! You too can make custom enemies for AE missions that have dual pistols and super reflexes!

But the devs have stated flat out that scrappers will not get dual pistols.
Who said anything about Pistol Scrappers?

We want a whole new AT. Ranged/Defense


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

The OP did. Read the post again.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
The OP did. Read the post again.
Oh god, you're right... My eyes must have skipped over that part to save me the horror...

Yes. Pistols for Scrappers is a HORRIBLE idea. No, shush. It is. Its right up there with Shield Offence and Dual Archery Defence.

A new AT which could have Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes as a RANGED set, that is made of awesome. Which is the idea that people are suggesting here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma View Post
And... they get lower damage modifiers too! Yeah, imagine that.
To be honest, I dont really find the damage 'low' on Kheldians or VEATs. Again, because its balanced. I might not be as fast as a Fire/Fire blaster, but I dont die as much either

I'd be one of the ones to call foul if an Assault-Ranged/Armour AT was made and it DID have Blaster level damage. It'd be cool, yeah...but way overpowered. Balance is as Balance Does. Etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
To be honest, I dont really find the damage 'low' on Kheldians or VEATs. Again, because its balanced. I might not be as fast as a Fire/Fire blaster, but I dont die as much either

I'd be one of the ones to call foul if an Assault-Ranged/Armour AT was made and it DID have Blaster level damage. It'd be cool, yeah...but way overpowered. Balance is as Balance Does. Etc.
I know. It feels really low when compared to nova form though. It seems on par with my plant/fire dominator on the other hand. Fun character, sometimes takes a while to beat enemies. Now my illusion/ta controller... THAT is low damage. I'd dread trying it without containment.


"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton

Madam Enigma's History

 

Posted

I think it would be cool to see a Blaster seconday called Tactics, or Tactical Manipulation or somethin like that. Since Blaster secondaries get a few melee and control powers in their secondaries, make it a sort of combo between traps and martial arts. They've mashed other sets together to create the Dom assault sets, why not this for blasters? Besides, i hate devices and it'd be a good alternative

Dunno if anyone has already said anything like this or not...got lazy after first page =P

Oh and I agree that just giving scrappers DP would be terrible enough to kill kittens.