Dual Pistols / Super Reflexes
By
BellaStrega,
Posted on: 2010-05-10 10:19 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Ranged damage modifiers, from top to bottom: (Starting point, inherent effects not included)|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Dominators, high damage? Uhhhhhh, news to me. I love my dominator, but it's only 'high damage' when compared to my controller. They are medium damage.
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Archetype Melee........ Range
Blaster 1.000........ 1.125
Arachnos Soldier 1.000........ 1.000
Arachnos Widow 1.000........ 1.000
Dominator 1.050........ 0.950
Peacebringer 0.850........ 0.800
Warshade 0.850........ 0.800
Corruptor 0.750........ 0.750
Defender 0.550........ 0.650
Stalker 1.000........ 0.600
Controller 0.550........ 0.550
Mastermind 0.550........ 0.550
Scrapper 1.125........ 0.500
Tanker 0.800........ 0.500
Brute 0.750........ 0.500
Banes, wolf spiders, night widows, and fortunatas can all reach (if not surpass) some scrappers in survivability depending upon their builds. This along with heavy team survival/offense contribution and a range of ranged damage. Ranged/Armor is doable. The trick, however, is that Arachnos do not actually recieve full armor sets, and have a lot less health. The high survival works because of their defense; a resist-based soldier without defense would be quite vulnerable. No Arachnos has a readily available heal either. This makes me think that IF they did a ranged/armor archetype, there would be a significantly altered secondary, primary, or both.
This sounds to me like a lot of development time for an archetype that is overshadowed in both its primary and secondary abilities.
One can hope the new "rogue" AT comin out with GR will satisfy this kinda request.
Id love a ranged/armor or a melee/buff AT.
If for no other reason than more choices for all.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Crab can get the following...|
Originally Posted by Seldom
Ranged damage modifiers, from top to bottom: (Starting point, inherent effects not included)
Archetype Melee........ Range Blaster 1.000........ 1.125 Arachnos Soldier 1.000........ 1.000 Arachnos Widow 1.000........ 1.000 Dominator 1.050........ 0.950 Peacebringer 0.850........ 0.800 Warshade 0.850........ 0.800 Corruptor 0.750........ 0.750 Defender 0.550........ 0.650 Stalker 1.000........ 0.600 Controller 0.550........ 0.550 Mastermind 0.550........ 0.550 Scrapper 1.125........ 0.500 Tanker 0.800........ 0.500 Brute 0.750........ 0.500 Banes, wolf spiders, night widows, and fortunatas can all reach (if not surpass) some scrappers in survivability depending upon their builds. This along with heavy team survival/offense contribution and a range of ranged damage. Ranged/Armor is doable. The trick, however, is that Arachnos do not actually recieve full armor sets, and have a lot less health. The high survival works because of their defense; a resist-based soldier without defense would be quite vulnerable. No Arachnos has a readily available heal either. This makes me think that IF they did a ranged/armor archetype, there would be a significantly altered secondary, primary, or both. This sounds to me like a lot of development time for an archetype that is overshadowed in both its primary and secondary abilities. |
32.5% Defense to EVERYTHING (Typed/Position) with 44.3% Ranged Defense
39.6% Resist to F/C/E/N, 57.1% Resist to S/L, and a measily 6.3% To Psionics
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Then we add in Serum. And even go Soul Mastery to get ahold of Darkest Night (for -DMG & -tohit). With IOs you could streamline this even more.
This is using Gen lvl 50 IOs. The stats drop by 1% using SOs.
This is a combo of Resists/Heal (Serum is a heal)/Defense.
Not all /Defense sets can acheive the amount of survivability a Crab can, with just SOs. In fact, I don't think any could, more so, because I would think it's a Ranged/Defense AT would most likely have MM or Defender/Corruptor/Controller level hitpoints (which is less than Blasters and Veats).
Add in that a the AT would do less damage than a Blaster, meaning it would also do less damage than a Scrapper (as Scrappers tend to have more DPS than a Blaster who relies just on the blasts)...I don't see how it can't be made easily balanced.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Read the thread, especially the follow-up posts of the OP. He did not mean to imply making Dual Pistols a Melee set, but rather letting Scrappers (or a similar AT) have a Ranged set.
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Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
The OP did. Read the post again.
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Range/Defense! I want n00ks.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Assault/Armour AT. That is all.
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Also Melee/Buff so I can be Kin/Kin!
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Which was exactly my point. I had read the thread, and then gone back to comment on posts. And someone called me out on it.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Read the thread, especially the follow-up posts of the OP. He did not mean to imply making Dual Pistols a Melee set, but rather letting Scrappers (or a similar AT) have a Ranged set.
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"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Please re-read what I stated. I agree crabs are tough, my crab is one of the tougher characters I have. What I said is that they don't have full armor sets, nor consistant heals. By consistant I mean heals that are available all the time. Yes crabs have good resists, but their toughness is based around a reisist/slow HP boost/defense trifecta, a paired-down invulnerability stepchild of sorts.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Crab can get the following...
32.5% Defense to EVERYTHING (Typed/Position) with 44.3% Ranged Defense 39.6% Resist to F/C/E/N, 57.1% Resist to S/L, and a measily 6.3% To Psionics Then we add in Serum. And even go Soul Mastery to get ahold of Darkest Night (for -DMG & -tohit). With IOs you could streamline this even more. This is using Gen lvl 50 IOs. The stats drop by 1% using SOs. This is a combo of Resists/Heal (Serum is a heal)/Defense. Not all /Defense sets can acheive the amount of survivability a Crab can, with just SOs. In fact, I don't think any could, more so, because I would think it's a Ranged/Defense AT would most likely have MM or Defender/Corruptor/Controller level hitpoints (which is less than Blasters and Veats). Add in that a the AT would do less damage than a Blaster, meaning it would also do less damage than a Scrapper (as Scrappers tend to have more DPS than a Blaster who relies just on the blasts)...I don't see how it can't be made easily balanced. |
What I'm wondering is what happens when existing FULL armor sets, that is 9 full armor powers, would work. Crabs tend to have manuevers, fortification, serum, combat training: defense, and one or more of the mez armors. That's 6-7 armor powers at maximum. Not a full set. Now move on to range- SoA Crabs CAN have over 9 ranged attacks easily. But these don't compare to existing ranged attack pools: it's more like the ability to double up on the starting portions of ranged sets. Crabs don't get aim for a damage boost, or the heavy-hitting single target blasts either, or the crazy top-tier nuke powers. Crabs can decimate crowds, but are lacking in ST damage, by design.
So what I'm saying is that a ranged/defesne AT using the SoA model would take significant changes to existing ranged/defense sets to get it in line with how SoA opperate. It's doable, certainly. But probable? I 'm not so sure.
I went for this in concept, if not actuality. I made a DP/Dev Blaster.
I--of course--took all the DP powers. I only took Cloaking Device, Targeting Drone and Web Grenade(only because you have no choice with Web Grenade); took Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, and slotted for every bit of Def I could manage without sacrificing damage.
Pre-i17 I had 29% Ranged Defense, about 23% AoE and 10-11% Melee. Smash/Lethal res of 25%(Tough + Body Armor). Not soft capped, true, but I was considerably less squishy(and chalked up the 'lack' of defense to my Natural Origin).
Between the cobbled together defenses, High Damage, and Toxic or Cryo Rounds, I do very well for a fake-SR-blaster.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Not needed just for this.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
We want a whole new AT. Ranged/Defense
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Pistols/Traps Corr with a moderate IO investment can provide defenses capped vs range and in the mid to high 30s for the other two. The Defender version can do it easier, of course, and a Defender gives you the option of FF as well.
Also, consider a Sonic/Pistol Defender if you'd prefer Resistance.
I'm not opposed to new ATs, but much can be done with what we have. My Pistols/Traps Corruptor is probably my favorite character at the moment. Great combo, good fun.
I like devices. Granted, caltrops and taser weren't in my initial Arch/Dev build. And I don't use caltrops often. Still a nice set.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History