I realize this isn't that helpful, but the short of it is "it depends."
Rain of Arrows and Full Auto are awesome for teams that are steam rolling or farming, because you can fire off a big AoE attack every 30-60s. However, Fire (a favorite of many for AoE) has Fireball and Firebreath... both of which do considerably more damage than the cone and targeted AoE of Archery/Assault Rifle.
Energy Blast, which has stock damage and all the standard attacks, has a crashing nuke. Energy Torrent and Explosive Blast both do AoE knockback, so a well played Energy Blaster will rarely get into hot water. She can use knockback repeatedly to keep any threats either flying or struggling to stand. So on my Energy Blaster, I basically only use Nova when someone else herds or during a overwhelming ambush. It's just not worth it otherwise.
So anyway, they all have to be weighed against their own set and what you intend to do.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
Crash? Not with Elec, Mental, or Fire.
Powerboost, jump into a large spawn with Nova. Pop a blue and hit Power Sink(elec) on the one boss that did not die and nail him with a follow up attack leaving noone left but to move on the next spawn with more then enough endurance. Repulsive Bomb, Explosive Blast, then Energy Torrent....and before you know it....My recharge with sets is a little over 110% and then add in hasten, well Nova is always back before I realize it.
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Originally Posted by Galaxia
First, a bit of clarification; by nuke I mean big, slow recharging attack with end crash and not-a-nuke I mean attacks like full-auto and rain of arrows.
How good are the l32 powers, how much should I base my powerset choice around that final power? Is the end crash at the end of a nova worth the blast or should I stick with something usable more often like RoA or Full-auto? |
Full Auto and Rain of Arrows are fantastic. If you are going to make them keystones to how you play, AIM and Buildup are your friends
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Originally Posted by Gilia
I realize this isn't that helpful, but the short of it is "it depends."
Rain of Arrows and Full Auto are awesome for teams that are steam rolling or farming, because you can fire off a big AoE attack every 30-60s. However, Fire (a favorite of many for AoE) has Fireball and Firebreath... both of which do considerably more damage than the cone and targeted AoE of Archery/Assault Rifle. |
AIM+ BU+Fire ball + Fire Breath ~= 560 pts of damage at max
AIM + BU + Rain of Arows ~= 800 pts of damage at max
Rain targets 16 enemies firebreath targets 10.
Generally the chain for a fireblaster includes something else after Fireball, usually from the secondary to get that nice 800 pts of lieutenant killing damage.
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Before you whip out your calculator, it helps to read what was actually written.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Fire (a favorite of many for AoE) has Fireball and Firebreath... both of which do considerably more damage than the cone and targeted AoE of Archery/Assault Rifle.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
AIM+ BU+Fire ball + Fire Breath ~= 560 pts of damage at max
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BU + Buckshot + M30 Grenade ~= 334 damage per target hit
Fire Blast provides more straight damage with non tier 9 attacks. It also doesn't have the knockback effect of Buckshot, M30, or Explosive Arrow. It also has Rain of Fire, which does an additional 451 damage over 15 seconds (with Aim and BU) to anything that doesn't escape its area. Fire Blast is simply superior to AR and Archery in AoE damage if you don't consider the tier 9 powers. It's comparable to AR and Archery even counting in RoA/Full Auto.
Fire is good at damage. That's kind of its schtick.
(Mitigation, of course, not so much.)
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
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Yes it does.|
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Before you whip out your calculator, it helps to read what was actually written.
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| Is the end crash at the end of a nova worth the blast or should I stick with something usable more often like RoA or Full-auto? |
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| both of which do considerably more damage than the cone and targeted AoE of Archery/Assault Rifle. |
Edit: And back to the original poster, most of the crashing nukes are kind of meh, possible exception is blizzard which is really delightful but on a longish timer.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Full Auto and Rain of Arrows are fantastic. If you are going to make them keystones to how you play, AIM and Buildup are your friends
No. AIM+ BU+Fire ball + Fire Breath ~= 560 pts of damage at max AIM + BU + Rain of Arows ~= 800 pts of damage at max Rain targets 16 enemies firebreath targets 10. Generally the chain for a fireblaster includes something else after Fireball, usually from the secondary to get that nice 800 pts of lieutenant killing damage. |
you forgot to add the defiance boost to fire breath that one gets from using fireball first, can't check the numbers not in game right now.
And the attack one uses after firebreath like you said gets the defiance boost of both those powers where as ROA gets no such boost. So it evens out especially if ones secondary is mental and their third attack happens to be pyshic scream.
edit. just one more thing but 4 of the 7 secondarys of blasters have counters to the end drain of full nukes
power sink, conserve power(just need to pop 1 blue first), consume and drain psyche.
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Very correct,|
Originally Posted by Bocus_King
you forgot to add the defiance boost to fire breath that one gets from using fireball first, can't check the numbers not in game right now.
And the attack one uses after firebreath like you said gets the defiance boost of both those powers where as ROA gets no such boost. So it evens out especially if ones secondary is mental and their third attack happens to be pyshic scream. |
Off the top of my head the defiance boost for AOEs is less than 10% which is why I used approximately equal. Archery can also fit in a follow up attack to ROA. Both explosive arrow and fistful will fit in the (aim+buildup) boost.
I far prefer Rain of Arrows to full nukes for normal play. With good recharge you can use it every spawn (while teamed... solo you kill them too fast unless you have bosses) and it wipes out minions at long range while leaving lieutenants fairly damaged. I like to open up with Aim or Build Up plus Rain of Arrows and Explosive Arrow from 100+ feet (Boost Range), alternating Aim one spawn and Build Up the next. Also, Rain of Arrows doesn't need line of sight so it can be used very safely.
Don't get me wrong, Nova and the other full nukes are fun, they just don't figure into routine play since they recharge so slowly. I tend to save them for emergencies or just pop them on a random spawn now and then for fun if things are going well, but Rain of Arrows is a core part of my archer's attack chain.
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
Fire is amazing but Nothing can pull more aggro than Fire/. If you dish out your fire attacks you WILL pull off aggro from the tank onto you. So tbh you can't really unleash with Fire/ like you want to...and if you do you have to be VERY cautious.
It's on of those builds that look good on paper but in reality it can be NOT so fun.
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You're either very stupid or I am very smart*, but in the context of his post I thought it was pretty obvious he meant the normal attacks and not the level 32 power.| Last time I checked Full Auto was a cone, and Rain of Arrows a targeted AOE. |
* More likely neither of these two options are true, rather you didn't read his post fully and don't want to back down now thanks to petty internet forum ego.
I prefer the crashless nukes to the traditional nukes. I like to roll along and dislike the crash slowing me down. That said, traditional nukes do a metric ***-ton of damage which is rather impressive.
Since it seems to have been forgotten in the tangentially pointless e-peen contest, I'd like to point out that AR also has Flamethrower.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
@Starflier
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Not to fall into name calling, which it seems is where you want to take this and getting back to the original question, just what is the relevance of comparing archery without rain of arrows and AR without full auto to fire blast ? You might was well start making comparisons for fire without blaze.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
You're either very stupid or I am very smart*, but in the context of his post I thought it was pretty obvious he meant the normal attacks and not the level 32 power.
* More likely neither of these two options are true, rather you didn't read his post fully and don't want to back down now thanks to petty internet forum ego. |
Especially when the original question was
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| How good are the l32 powers, how much should I base my powerset choice around that final power? |
*And if it wasn't done deliberately it certainly is the result.
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Star actually beat me to it LOL. I was about to say..."Are they skipping out Flamethrower?!" I would list the numbers of that one for yah Gal but it seems my mids are actin' up on me. The Corr numbers are showing 160 dmg. I wonder what's wrong with my mids?
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Originally Posted by Starflier
I prefer the crashless nukes to the traditional nukes. I like to roll along and dislike the crash slowing me down. That said, traditional nukes do a metric ***-ton of damage which is rather impressive.
Since it seems to have been forgotten in the tangentially pointless e-peen contest, I'd like to point out that AR also has Flamethrower. |
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Sorry, guys. I didn't realize this could be confusing for some. Silly mistake on my part! Just because what I intended was obvious to Nihilli and Trashcan doesn't mean it's so obvious to everyone.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Rain of Arrows and Full Auto are awesome for teams that are steam rolling or farming, because you can fire off a big AoE attack every 30-60s. However, Fire (a favorite of many for AoE) has Fireball and Firebreath... both of which do considerably more damage than the cone and targeted AoE of Archery/Assault Rifle.
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Yes, I meant this paragraph in reference to my second, and hastily so. I meant that as to compare stock cone/AoEs, the non-tier 9s that most sets have.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
You're either very stupid or I am very smart*, but in the context of his post I thought it was pretty obvious he meant the normal attacks and not the level 32 power.
* More likely neither of these two options are true, rather you didn't read his post fully and don't want to back down now thanks to petty internet forum ego. |
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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It's all so much simpler once you (and your team) realize that you are the tank and treat you as such. |
Originally Posted by Negate
Fire is amazing but Nothing can pull more aggro than Fire/. If you dish out your fire attacks you WILL pull off aggro from the tank onto you. So tbh you can't really unleash with Fire/ like you want to...and if you do you have to be VERY cautious.
It's on of those builds that look good on paper but in reality it can be NOT so fun. |
After all, if you are going to have all the aggro anyway, you might as well eat the alpha and position the spawns as you see fit, right?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
The crashless nukes in the game are amazing (RoA, full auto, Lightning Rod, Shield Charge) and I haven't tried Hail of Bullets, but it looks like it could be pretty solid now.
I like the traditional nukes if you have a way to recover quickly. For blasters that is hands down a nice full Drain Psyche. I'd have to check blaster numbers, but I think saturated it can recover right through the -recovery the nuke applies. Which is pretty nice.
Pop a blue+powersink is decent too. I found it works really well with blizzard just because the targets are alive long enough to ensure it works immediately after the nuke cast with no bothersome target hunting.
I wouldn't base my pick around a traditional nuke (whereas picking arch is clearly because of RoA), but if you are planning to have uber recharge then the crash based nuke might be a deciding factor. For which the only answer is Inferno! Which means roll a fire/psy, they are crazy fun and very powerful with insane aoe, extreme st, and very high survivability (for a blaster and if built right, just plan high survivability period).
Also depends on how much recharge youre gonna put in the build. For me, the end crash is no big deal. Pop a blue and keep going. Thats what they're for, right? Also, with a nice recharge build, the down time isnt that bad, really. But i do love RoA, it seems to hit more than FA due to the cone vs. the dropping on mobs from the air i guess. But i would definately get it on my build if for the sheer joy of seeing the mobs get wasted.
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Nukes are outdated. quasi-nukes that have no draw backs other than animation time do a much better job than overkill nukes like nova and inferno which causes 2x the hp of ltns. Rain of Arrows, full auto, all those pistol AoEs, Mental Manip AoEs, do enough dmg especially with a little help for a buffer like a kin or emp, and with a debuffer like a cold or rad. Over time you will kill way more enemies than pure nukes. I believe since the pure nukes are out dated, they should increase its dmg to do half of the hp of bosses. THis way blasters can use it as a last ditch to survive heavey hitting bosses like rikti soldiers.
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Originally Posted by Galaxia
First, a bit of clarification; by nuke I mean big, slow recharging attack with end crash and not-a-nuke I mean attacks like full-auto and rain of arrows.
How good are the l32 powers, how much should I base my powerset choice around that final power? Is the end crash at the end of a nova worth the blast or should I stick with something usable more often like RoA or Full-auto? |
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Originally Posted by Negate
Fire is amazing but Nothing can pull more aggro than Fire/. If you dish out your fire attacks you WILL pull off aggro from the tank onto you. So tbh you can't really unleash with Fire/ like you want to...and if you do you have to be VERY cautious.
It's on of those builds that look good on paper but in reality it can be NOT so fun. |
I have a Fire/Fire blaster that plays strictly in Melee, and I rarely use my single target attacks... all for the AoEs (basically my attack chain is Build and Aim if available, Fireball, Fire Sword Circle, then Combustion. And Blaze the surviving boss). I can dish out pretty much all the damage I want, all I have to do is make sure I have purples and/or oranges popped. Amazing what inspirations can do to your survivability. Or, as I'm planning to do sometime in the near future once I have the inf I need for the build I have in mind, build for softcapped S/L along with great recharge and accuracy.
And if you have a competent tank with a good taunt aura (Invul or Shield basically) enemies should be dead before you pull enough attention to yourself thanks to your massive damage.
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Originally Posted by Neeto
Nukes are outdated. quasi-nukes that have no draw backs other than animation time do a much better job than overkill nukes like nova and inferno which causes 2x the hp of ltns. Rain of Arrows, full auto, all those pistol AoEs, Mental Manip AoEs, do enough dmg especially with a little help for a buffer like a kin or emp, and with a debuffer like a cold or rad. Over time you will kill way more enemies than pure nukes. I believe since the pure nukes are out dated, they should increase its dmg to do half of the hp of bosses. THis way blasters can use it as a last ditch to survive heavey hitting bosses like rikti soldiers.
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@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
Main Hero: Inferno Sparky - Fire/Fire Blaster
Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
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I can't believe I forgot Flamethrower! Shameful.|
Originally Posted by Negate
Star actually beat me to it LOL. I was about to say..."Are they skipping out Flamethrower?!" I would list the numbers of that one for yah Gal but it seems my mids are actin' up on me. The Corr numbers are showing 160 dmg. I wonder what's wrong with my mids?
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BU + Flamethrower ~= 357 damage per target. So combined with the 334 per target from Buckshot and M30, that's 687 damage per target. Of course, you'd probably want to start with Flamethrower if at all possible, as the other two tend to move the enemies around.
Now, speaking to the actual topic of the thread: I actually do prefer the crashless nukes, because they're more conducive to the fast-moving playstyle of the game. Wiping out every 10th spawn in 1 second instead of 5 or 6 is not really worth the recovery time and risk that a crashing nuke puts you under, but having an attack up every other spawn that nearly wipes it out and still leaves your toggles running and your other attacks immediately available is great. But then, I dislike situational powers in general, even though I know that in the situations where they're useful, they can be *very* useful.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
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How bout and ice cold nuka cola?
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Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
While I kinda agree with you when it comes to regular missions and the signature task forces, the regular Novas come in extremely handy on Shard TFs and the like (or anywhere with a good tank that knows how to herd properly). The sheer amount of enemies in there makes for awesome targets for nukes. I use mine everytime it's up when on a shard TF ( Aim -> Build up -> FireBall -> Fire Sword Circle -> inferno -> ??? -> Dead everything ). All I have to do afterwards is pop a blue, then hit Consume on the next available mob before continuing with my regular attack chain. Or if there's an Emp on the team, AB would negate the need for blues/Consume. |
Yeah they were awsome when the AoE cap wasn't yet just 16. I remember on eden trial when i herded half the map full of those quarts monsters to a nuking blaster... golden age!
Depends on your playstyle. I'm honestly a pretty careless Blaster, so I use nukes all the time in order to kill enemies before they kill me after I *DERP* wander into the middle of a mob accidentally.
The Sonic and Psychic nukes also have a sweet Stun. The Radiation Nuke can hold, the Elec nuke is the god of all sapping powers, the Fire nuke dishes out added DoT, and the Ice Nuke debuffs (movement and recharge) and can be fired at range. The Energy Blast nuke LOOKS really cool, and knocks enemies back.
Full Auto is nice, aside from forcing you to be planted, but you can get around that by teaming with a tanker or troller. Rain of Arrows is a huge boost to your DPS, an is probably the better of the two. Lots of recharge in it will let you use it on every other mob.
Personally, I like 'em both. I choose Blaster Primaries for other powers, but the nukes are a nice bonus.
Too many alts to list.
Just give my blasters Lighting Rod and Shield Charge! The old school nukes don't seem so good anymore. 
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
First, a bit of clarification; by nuke I mean big, slow recharging attack with end crash and not-a-nuke I mean attacks like full-auto and rain of arrows.
How good are the l32 powers, how much should I base my powerset choice around that final power? Is the end crash at the end of a nova worth the blast or should I stick with something usable more often like RoA or Full-auto?