Transpotation Power/s for Natural Heroes?


Aett_Thorn

 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Can you really do just ninja run effectively?

On ninja run, I lover it personally, but all my friends in my SG say you NEED an actual power.
Virginia, your little friends are wrong. Just take Hurdle and activate Ninja Run, and you will be flipping around town, bounding from rooftop to rooftop, and generally getting to where you need to go in no time at all.

Why, it's so fast, it's almost unnatural.


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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Can you really do just ninja run effectively?

On ninja run, I lover it personally, but all my friends in my SG say you NEED an actual power.

Ninja Run is a weaker cross between SJ and SS really.

My lvl 15 tank without a swift and no run slotted in sprint gets 39.59 mph.

Another tank with swift and run single slotted with run SO's gets 48.98 mph, and a jump height of 30.4 ft. His SJ, which is currently slotted for end redux gets 48.65 mph with a jump height of 108 ft. Similar speeds, but not as much building clearance.

Another toon with SS slotted for end redux gets 65.15 mph without sprint, 72.31 with sprint, and with hurdle instead of swift gets a jump height of 11.27ft.

Flight speed itself maxes out at 58.63 mph.


So yes it can be a viable travel power in some ways. It has allowed me to put off Flight/SJ/SS till later in builds. I don't have a toon yet that having Ninja Run as the main travel power fits as a concept.


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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
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Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
It would be nice if Ninja Run allowed for some other poses/animations but I don't see the developers committing time and resources to upgrade a booster pack power. Still if there are nigh insurmountable obstacles to things like swinging or vehicles it would make sense to try and provide another non booster pack option for "natural travel" that doesn't break the game engine.
If "Vehicles" are OK for your natural (as in "all human," not "game origin definition" natrual) character, why isn't buying and strapping on a jetpack? (Or the previously mentioned piston shoes or jet boot costume pieces.) It would be just as much a "vehicle," in this instance, as a car or motorcycle.


 

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First of all, I always find the idea of a "natural human" as a character to be patently ridiculous in this context. Even ignoring your average character's bullet-absorbing, rocket-surviving tenacity, the end game has you fighting titanic aliens, building-sized robots, powerful psychics and ACTUAL GODS. And you don't outsmart them or trick them. You punch their face in. If you can justify THAT while being naturally human, you can justify getting a travel power.

Secondly, "Natural" covers a lot of ground. Even ignoring energy-shooting aliens and the denizens of alternate planes of existence, I have a natural fighter who comes from a brutal alternate dimension where humans evolved to be hideously tough and strong, almost unkillable and practically immune to most elements. It's what it took to survive there. She's natural, because that's what she is, but she can still leap a good distance into the air and shrug off bullets. That particular aspect I actually pilfered from DragonBall Z's brief stint with training under heavy gravity, but DBZ had to be good for at least one obscure idea.

Basically, if you're going with a "pure human" concept, you need to be prepared to do a lot of handwaving right from the get go. I hope you have strong wrists.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
If "Vehicles" are OK for your natural (as in "all human," not "game origin definition" natrual) character, why isn't buying and strapping on a jetpack? (Or the previously mentioned piston shoes or jet boot costume pieces.) It would be just as much a "vehicle," in this instance, as a car or motorcycle.
Because we don't have jetpacks in working regular reality. So it requires super tech, so it is a tech power.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Because we don't have jetpacks in working regular reality. So it requires super tech, so it is a tech power.
And yet in working regular reality you jog faster than cars without getting tired? You can get shot, burned, drop from the top of a skyscraper, hit with radiation, etc. and barely notice it? Heal from near-death in seconds?

Also, who cares if it's "a tech power?" Does that stop your natural character from using bows (technology) or guns (definitely technology?) Origin is the primary source of your powers. Using a gun does not change you from natural to tech. Punching someone does not make you go from science to natural.

One last bit: We've had jetpacks/rocket packs in one form or another developed since the 50s. You may be able to find footage of someone at the super bowl using one during half time from - oh, think it was the 80s. Not to mention powered "winged" backpacks - basically the ultimate ultralight - people are using now as a form of "extreme skydiving," most often. This isn't much of a stretch. Or all that "super tech." Had we had continual development instead of fits and starts? Not a stretch at all.


 

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Vehicles would be awesome, but until they feel like doing a ton of work for 1 or 2 new travel powers, it won't happen.


 

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Originally Posted by Slope View Post
Vehicles would be awesome, but until they feel like doing a ton of work for 1 or 2 new travel powers, it won't happen.
Personally, they could probably just do a different graphic and sound effect for the super run and make it a motorcycle.


 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
And yet in working regular reality you jog faster than cars without getting tired? You can get shot, burned, drop from the top of a skyscraper, hit with radiation, etc. and barely notice it? Heal from near-death in seconds?

Also, who cares if it's "a tech power?" Does that stop your natural character from using bows (technology) or guns (definitely technology?) Origin is the primary source of your powers. Using a gun does not change you from natural to tech. Punching someone does not make you go from science to natural.

One last bit: We've had jetpacks/rocket packs in one form or another developed since the 50s. You may be able to find footage of someone at the super bowl using one during half time from - oh, think it was the 80s. Not to mention powered "winged" backpacks - basically the ultimate ultralight - people are using now as a form of "extreme skydiving," most often. This isn't much of a stretch. Or all that "super tech." Had we had continual development instead of fits and starts? Not a stretch at all.
There is a distinction between super tech and normal tech. This line can be foggy with fictional rifles in this game, but rocket boots are clearly super tech in genre.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
There is a distinction between super tech and normal tech. This line can be foggy with fictional rifles in this game, but rocket boots are clearly super tech in genre.
So you're fine with using jetpacks now in that case? Since you decided to completely dodge that.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Personally, they could probably just do a different graphic and sound effect for the super run and make it a motorcycle.
How would combat work on a motorcycle? How would strafing and turning work on a motorcycle? Would it be a good idea to let heroes run wild in a motorcycle inside of an office complex?


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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Because we don't have jetpacks in working regular reality. So it requires super tech, so it is a tech power.
What does "regular working reality" matter? In the City of Heroes universe, the technology is common enough that anyone who stops the Atlas Park bank from being robbed is gifted a working jetpack by the City.

In Paragon City, the technology is just that common. Let your hangups go and have fun.


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Just because your character is "natural" in origin, doesn't mean they must be a LUDDITE for technology or a DEADHEAD for a magical item. I'm not a technologically minded girl, but I still use a computer, drive a car, and am quite capable of using complex machinery. If we had magic, you better believe I'd be buying rings of levitation and using headbands of telepathy.

My natural origin Emp/Dark defender is a teleporter. She's based on me. I give out plenty of advice and help people who need a shoulder to cry on, and gods forbid you start me flaming on a forum for the dark part. My ability to talk and carry on conversations to two or more people at once when I was working at my comic shop when I made the character, lent to her being able to BE in two places at once.

But her more modern backstory involves plenty of borrowed items - she swiped a Circle of Thorns portal, and uses a lot of 'discarded' technology from Crey or whoever.

Origin is what you make of it. There's no reason to complain that there isn't something "for" your natural character, it's not like those things aren't available to everyone ELSE in the game, regardless of their origin. Your character can walk into any shop in the city and buy and sell things, the only thing they can't do is "use" enhancements meant for other origin types. So? Still means very little unless you just can't get your mind open wide enough.


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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
How would combat work on a motorcycle? How would strafing and turning work on a motorcycle? Would it be a good idea to let heroes run wild in a motorcycle inside of an office complex?
It wouldn't. To compensate, every time you get off your motorcycle you have the option of driving it into an enemy as you hop off.

Infinite gliding?

Yes.

*Edit* - As for Ninja Run as your only travel power Hurdle + Ninja Run is equal to the speed of Super Jump. You are not going to jump as HIGH, mind you, but you can jump as FAST. You can jump up about 60 feet, and while SJ can reach heights of over 200 feet with slotting, I personally feel like SJ is often excessive anyway.

The advantage is has over picking a travel power is that you 'save' a pool, since most people were going to take fitness anyway to get Stamina, so you might as well pick up Hurdle and make a travel power out of the venture.

Many of my characters use nothing but Hurdle+Ninja Run (especially my Kinetics~)


 

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Kinetics + Ninja run = awesome travel.

With Inertial reduction and Ninja run you get capped Jump speed and height.
With Siphon Speed + Ninja run you get better then Superspeed's run speed, and with two applications of Siphon you will cap run speed.


Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....

Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.

 

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Originally Posted by Lightfoot View Post
What does "regular working reality" matter? In the City of Heroes universe, the technology is common enough that anyone who stops the Atlas Park bank from being robbed is gifted a working jetpack by the City.

In Paragon City, the technology is just that common. Let your hangups go and have fun.
Because its the nature of the origin. Some people, like myself, like to play up such things. Having super tech, compared to reality, breaks this.

P.S. However, it is interesting how ninja run is being purposed.


 

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Out of curiosity, why are we accepting Ninja Run as a 'natural' travel set, even though it requires rather obvious levels of absurd physical perfection (To a degree unrealized in reality) but we don't accept Super Jump even though we could explain it in much of the same way?

I'm merely curious at what level of performance we decide something is too 'super' to be 'natural', and why Ninja Run makes this qualification. Only because it was in the 'Natural' booster pack, or is it something else?


 

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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
How would combat work on a motorcycle?
If you are standing still you are standing upright with the motorcycle between your legs. If you are moving then you raise up off of the handles till you are about upright and you leave the lower body on the bike.

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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
How would strafing and turning work on a motorcycle?
It would probably look sort of unnatural (nothing to a degree we are not used to), but the bike would face the direction, while your upper half would be turned to the proper direction.

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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
Would it be a good idea to let heroes run wild in a motorcycle inside of an office complex?
Considering how often this is seen in action movies, yes. Die Hard 4, SUV down an elevator shaft...


 

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Originally Posted by Warkupo View Post
Out of curiosity, why are we accepting Ninja Run as a 'natural' travel set, even though it requires rather obvious levels of absurd physical perfection (To a degree unrealized in reality) but we don't accept Super Jump even though we could explain it in much of the same way?

I'm merely curious at what level of performance we decide something is too 'super' to be 'natural', and why Ninja Run makes this qualification. Only because it was in the 'Natural' booster pack, or is it something else?
I think it is because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles that super run has, and is by far less than ether super jump or super leap.

In the end, to me, it is more in line what we have seen natural character types in movies and anime use.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Because we don't have jetpacks in working regular reality. So it requires super tech, so it is a tech power.
Just an FYI, the Martin Jetpack is going to be available for commercial sale this year.

http://www.martinjetpack.com/the-martin-jetpack.aspx







 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
Because its the nature of the origin. Some people, like myself, like to play up such things. Having super tech, compared to reality, breaks this.

P.S. However, it is interesting how ninja run is being purposed.
But now you are moving the goalposts again.

The only reality that matters is comic book reality. If you are going to accept that a natural hero can be shot numerous times at close range with shotguns, machine guns and flamethrowers and emerge nigh unscathed, why do you have trouble accepting that a higher tech level than our own is the normal tech level for the setting? The government in the City of Heroes universe has reverse engineered Rikti tech for their mediporter technology (available to all supers and the crooks they "arrest") and makes personal flight readily available for their paramilitary and superhuman forces.

That you cannot accept jetpacks, rocket boots and the like as readily available to your natural heroes is your hangup. Don't blame your inability to get over it on a deficiency in the game or the game design.


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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
In the end, to me, it is more in line what we have seen natural character types in movies and anime use.
Let's talk about that, then. James Bond has always used theoretical tech 10-20 years in advance of what is readily available. In the late 60's, James Bond was using a jetpack to get around (From Russia With Love). While the Bourne movies don't use theoretical transportation tech, they certainly use surveillance tech at least 5 years ahead of what is on the market.

Most anime plays fast and loose with theoretical tech, too; the stealth suits in Ghost in the Shell, the androids in Gunslinger Girl, the gadgets of Lupin the 3rd.

If you are using movies and anime as your guide to what is "natural," I still don't understand where your goalposts are. I suspect that you don't know where your goalposts are either, except to move them further out as you are shown examples within your boundaries that you don't like.


New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)

 

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Originally Posted by Lightfoot View Post
Let's talk about that, then. James Bond has always used theoretical tech 10-20 years in advance of what is readily available. In the late 60's, James Bond was using a jetpack to get around (From Russia With Love). While the Bourne movies don't use theoretical transportation tech, they certainly use surveillance tech at least 5 years ahead of what is on the market.

Most anime plays fast and loose with theoretical tech, too; the stealth suits in Ghost in the Shell, the androids in Gunslinger Girl, the gadgets of Lupin the 3rd.

If you are using movies and anime as your guide to what is "natural," I still don't understand where your goalposts are. I suspect that you don't know where your goalposts are either, except to move them further out as you are shown examples within your boundaries that you don't like.
I can't help but feel like you are just trying to poke holes in everything I say.

Ninja Run is more acceptable because it seems like the non-supernatural mooks of an anime, such as Ninja Scroll. Especially in compairison to Super Jump and Super Speed. While if you were trying to make a super hero character like from Lethal Weapon, even this would be too odd if true to the genre.

Grant it, as stated before, the game is designed to have these characters take missile hits, and still be alive, this takes a bit of overlooking or execution. That aside on a side note we could also add the motorcycle to a tech origin with a simple different style, rather than a modern.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Just an FYI, the Martin Jetpack is going to be available for commercial sale this year.

http://www.martinjetpack.com/the-martin-jetpack.aspx
Wow that is interesting... I will believe it when I see it, but wow it seems really dangerous, a waist of energy, and generally useless in every day life of your modern citizen.