City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

PvP, Badges, or Mission Architect? Which do you use more?

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-04-23 18:27 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
PvP, Badges, or Mission Architect? Which do you use more?
That's kind of a loaded question, since, and I'm sorry to say this, I couldn't care less about ANY of the three. I'm not exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That's kind of a loaded question, since, and I'm sorry to say this, I couldn't care less about ANY of the three. I'm not exaggerating.
I think Xanatos is making a good point though. The devs are dedicating a lot of resources at the AE and are about to double the number of badges. Are those areas that players think should be getting that attention?

There are lots of little subcommunities in this game. I think that is one of it's strong points. All of the subcommunities would like bug fixes, changes, improvements, etc. I think most people understand that they can't cater to all of these subcommunities every issue. But some communities get attention every issue and others are simply told about vague plans on the horizon.

In particular, the PvP and the Base subcommunities have been left hanging for a long time.

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
I think Xanatos is making a good point though. The devs are dedicating a lot of resources at the AE and are about to double the number of badges. Are those areas that players think should be getting that attention?

There are lots of little subcommunities in this game. I think that is one of it's strong points. All of the subcommunities would like bug fixes, changes, improvements, etc. I think most people understand that they can't cater to all of these subcommunities every issue. But some communities get attention every issue and others are simply told about vague plans on the horizon.

In particular, the PvP and the Base subcommunities have been left hanging for a long time.
I agree with you about base builders, but the PvPers got quite a bit of attention recently. That attention wasn't really what they wanted, but they got it.

I do find it interesting that the devs support certain subcommunities of the game, while trying to get rid of others.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
I think Xanatos is making a good point though. The devs are dedicating a lot of resources at the AE and are about to double the number of badges. Are those areas that players think should be getting that attention?

There are lots of little subcommunities in this game. I think that is one of it's strong points. All of the subcommunities would like bug fixes, changes, improvements, etc. I think most people understand that they can't cater to all of these subcommunities every issue. But some communities get attention every issue and others are simply told about vague plans on the horizon.

In particular, the PvP and the Base subcommunities have been left hanging for a long time.
Acutally, I don't he is making as good a point as either you or he thinks he is. The particular devs that make badges (art and zone designers) are not the same people that would be involved with MA or PvP except where they place badges in those areas - which has not happened since issue 7 for PvP and Issue 14 for MA - In other words on the release). There is a little overlap with MA and PvP when it comes to powers and the custom critter powers (i.e Black Scorpian).

So the real question is, did doubling the badge number as you pointed out truely have a negative impact on PvP development? And the answer is emphatically no. Did the changes to MA have a negative impact on PvP development? Yes in terms of powers as time was spent with the critters. I think it would be more accurate to say that MA and new power set development (DP, DS, KM, and EC) was the true resource hog. And quite rightly so as the PvE subcommunity is quite a bit larger the the PvP subcommunity.

Oh and to anwer the original OPs question. Mine is Badges = MA = PvP. I have 1 character I actively badge with, I have one arc published in MA, and I rarely PvP.

--Rad

/whereami:

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
This game has a lot of different sub-communities; and I'm pretty sure PVP is one of the more active ones.
C'mon Xan, I know you play on Virtue. You must see the same things I see - generally there's at least a couple people in any given AE I enter, while I can often pop into a PvP zone and see no one at all.

Sure, there's some selection bias there - AE buildings are considerably smaller than PvP zones, so it's easier to find people - but anecdotal evidence from in the game is at least as valid as forum post counts.

I think you have to consider the nature of the game's PvP system - it received a massive overhaul a year ago, one that did, in fact, result in a significant (if not financially dangerous) exodus of players from the game, and has been highly controversial since then. Those forums contain all that. Badging, on the other hand, will never be particularly controversial (the biggest controversy being, perhaps, the recent change to villain accolades, which seems to be widely well received overall), and Mission Architect hasn't been around as long as PvP to generate the same backlog of messages.

For me, personally, Badges and MA are about the same (I like to grab the occasional badge, but mostly in pursuit of PvE bonuses or content, not just for the sake of having it, and while I haven't managed to get an arc put together, as part of an RP VG we do make common, if not frequent, use of MA) and PvP is a far straggler behind it. I've never had much interest in competitive game play, in any game.

 

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AE and Badges in equal importance for me, then PvP badges that don't actually require me to defeat any other Players, then PvE.

I don't PvP.

Eco

MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

 

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Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
I think there is a perception problem though if players in the game separate what they do on the basis of what the event is, and I really think there's a problem with the opening point of view that there are sub-communities centralized around aspects of the game.
This ia a good point which bears repeating every time divisive discussions are raised.

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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake View Post
badges>ae> turning off the game and doing something else>pvp
But rian has captured my feelings on OP - except I would expand "turning off the game and doing something else" to "turning off the game and doing something else, up to and including visiting the dentist or undergoing a colonoscopy".

Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!

Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon

"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."

 

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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
Badges > MA >> PvP
This is accurate.

Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

Posted

AE > Badges >>>>>>>>>>> PVP

I like the AE. It's a place where I can get my SMASH! on without the annoying bits that come in between missions like travel time and text boxes that I don't read.

I'd play it more if it were easier to get groups.

Badges I just don't see the point of. They don't do anything, and anyone can get them. So they're useless and don't even represent an uncommon accomplishment or at least put you in a small elite group.

So the only badges I ever bother myself with are the ones that I need for zone access, or the ones that get me accolades which do something useful.

But even the badges that I find entirely pointless get ranked several steps above PvP, which I actively detest, so I have literally less than zero interest in it. My interest level is a negative number. It's dull, boring, frustrating, and not enjoyable in the slightest.

I'm not saying that it needs to be fixed up, I'm saying there is absolutely no way that PvP could be implemented in a dice-roll RPG environment that would make me like it.

 

Posted

There's probably 5 pvpers left on my server, including myself. I would still rank it:

Pvp > Badges >> Ma

<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]

 

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For me its MA >>> badges >>>>>>>>>> PvP

MA is a fun diversion when I'd like to solo. I especially like it for some of the lower level AE arcs both hero and villain, and sometimes in the late 20s or 30s as a villain, and the 40s as a hero. Quite a few of the AE arcs are well written and well balanced, and in the level ranges mentioned I sometimes like to enjoy content other than the usual mobs, introduced by the usual contacts.

Badging is an "if I trip over it" thing for me. But, I still seem to usually get 70 or 90 badges, or thereabouts, on the journey to level 50.

I have no interest in PvP, in this game or any other.

The OP's point is based on weak evidence, as pointed out by Eiko-chan. Controversy drives post counts about particular subjects, not the underlying number of participants in that activity. There has been plenty of controversy surrounding PvP, relatively less surrounding MA (except for exploits, but exploiters get quickly shouted down when they complain about nerfs), and relatively little about badges.

 

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Originally Posted by Olantern View Post
I'd don't actively hunt for badges unless they give some mechanical effect or they contain a title I really, really want on a particular character. However, I do accrue them just from incidental play. I'm not sure if that counts as "using."
Pretty much this^. If I have to pick one, I'm a badger, but it's not the reason I play.

I don't do AE or PvP at all. AE bothers me on a conceptual basis, and I don't care for the PvP in this game. Yes, I've tried both, no I didn't care for either. I keep my PvP to games made FOR it, FPSs, Warhammer Online, Aion, Guild Wars, none of which I play anymore.

 

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Originally Posted by Radionuclide View Post
So the real question is, did doubling the badge number as you pointed out truely have a negative impact on PvP development? And the answer is emphatically no. Did the changes to MA have a negative impact on PvP development? Yes in terms of powers as time was spent with the critters. I think it would be more accurate to say that MA and new power set development (DP, DS, KM, and EC) was the true resource hog. And quite rightly so as the PvE subcommunity is quite a bit larger the the PvP subcommunity.

--Rad
Your emphatic no, is emphatically wrong. Synapse works on badges, powers, merits, and drops. So time he spends doing one thing necessarily takes time from any other thing.

Quote:
Greetings,

I'm Phil Zeleski, a Game Designer here at NCSoft NorCal. I work closely with Floyd "Castle" Grubb designing powers and with Matt "Positron" Miller designing rewards (this includes things like badges, new invention sets and pretty much anything granted from the game and given to the player.)

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad

 

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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
Your emphatic no, is emphatically wrong. Synapse works on badges, powers, merits, and drops. So time he spends doing one thing necessarily takes time from any other thing.
Where's the impact to PvP? Synapse would be working on PvP recipes or something if he wasn't doing badges?

Agua Man lvl 48 Water/Electric Blaster


"To die hating NCSoft for shutting down City of Heroes, that was Freedom."

 

Posted

For me,

Badges > MA >> PvP

and

PvP = 0

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
Your emphatic no, is emphatically wrong. Synapse works on badges, powers, merits, and drops. So time he spends doing one thing necessarily takes time from any other thing.
No, it wouldn't. In a business, time is scheduled for projects. Time scheduled for one is not time taken away from another. If he's told "OK, this month you're on the team working on GR badges," that is not taking time away from working on powers. If next month he's given two weeks investigating merit balance, that's not two weeks taken away from badges. That's two weeks he's scheduled to work on merit balance.

Now, if he's scheduled for a week each on badges, powers, and drops, and powers brings up an issue that needs more attention and takes a week and a half, with drops just having the time removed instead of being bumped back, THEN you could say, in that instance, it "took time away" from drops.

 

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Originally Posted by firespray View Post
I agree with you about base builders, but the PvPers got quite a bit of attention recently. That attention wasn't really what they wanted, but they got it.

I do find it interesting that the devs support certain subcommunities of the game, while trying to get rid of others.
And which communities are they "trying to get rid of?" Before you say "PVP," go read their comments about it where they say their goal was to grow the community and bring more people in. They weren't SUCCESSFUL, but that is what they were attempting to do.

"Lack of visible attention" is also not "trying to get rid of."

Go find specific dev actions and statements that are aimed at eliminating a community. The only ones you'll find, if you want to call them a community, are "abusers of exploits" and "RMTers."

 

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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
Where's the impact to PvP? Synapse would be working on PvP recipes or something if he wasn't doing badges?
Adjusting PvP drop rates, or power fixes, or a pvp merit system have all been requested by a sizable portion of the PvP community.

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
No, it wouldn't. In a business, time is scheduled for projects. Time scheduled for one is not time taken away from another. If he's told "OK, this month you're on the team working on GR badges," that is not taking time away from working on powers. If next month he's given two weeks investigating merit balance, that's not two weeks taken away from badges. That's two weeks he's scheduled to work on merit balance.

Now, if he's scheduled for a week each on badges, powers, and drops, and powers brings up an issue that needs more attention and takes a week and a half, with drops just having the time removed instead of being bumped back, THEN you could say, in that instance, it "took time away" from drops.
What? Of course it is. If he is scheduled to do A instead of B that is time taken to do one and not the other. I do understand that the developers don't get to pick and choose what they work on and when they work on it. They have a management staff that sets the goals and priorities and assign the work to be done to accomplish them.

But that's the point. They are deciding to dedicate time and effort into MA and everything else that is coming in the next two issues and deciding not to spend that time on bases and PvP. I'm terribly happy that they have made new missions and new powersets for I17. Ultramode is very pretty. I'm sure that GR will have lots of things to enjoy.

But I and many others would appreciate it if they spent a little bit of time to at least address bug fixes and perhaps relax the slope of diminishing returns, heal decay, and travel suppression if they insist on keeping them. I don't think that is an unreasonable request. Maybe you do. *shrug*

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad

 

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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post

What? Of course it is. If he is scheduled to do A instead of B that is time taken to do one and not the other. I
Right. It's time taken *to do* something. Not time taken *away* from something. You can't take away something that didn't exist. If you drive off in a Mercedes, it's not a Mercedes you've taken away from me, because I never had it to begin with. The time I'm taking to type this up is not time taken away from watching a movie, because I'm not planning on watching a movie until later.

Quote:
But I and many others would appreciate it if they spent a little bit of time to at least address bug fixes and perhaps relax the slope of diminishing returns, heal decay, and travel suppression if they insist on keeping them. I don't think that is an unreasonable request. Maybe you do. *shrug*
Scroll up and look at my "priorities" among the ones listed, then tell me you think I'd call those unreasonable. Even with badges being the least interesting to me, I wouldn't call fixing something far out of whack "unreasonable." My interest is in the game as a whole being the best it can be, no matter where the problems are. I am, however, aware these things are done on a timetable, as ideas are kicked around on how to fix things, what might be broken otherwise, and involve all the little things (like walking by Castle's cubicle or office and saying "Hey, just had an idea on how we can at least let people use teleport in PVP again") that don't get scheduled and are invisible to us here on the outside.

 

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Pvp as it is... well its not that fun to me.
However if you make it into a scenario... then it could be a bit more fun in my opinion. Its sort of ironic that the only thing I did like about CO was "Zombie Apocalypse" scenario. In general its a pvp scenario where the majority of heroes are there to protect a cabin with people. Its cold outside (not that it does anything else then give a mood).
Now the heroes must protect the cabin with people from the zombies that starts slowly at first then more are spawned and tougher... from taking the cabin or overrunning the heroes.
The extra fun part...
Not all the heroes that attend this scenario are made into heroes. They are made into zombies and thus start out on the zombie side.

If Ncsoft would make scenarios like these, with a reward (small enough) for being on the winning side... or well no reward at all. Then I'd think I would be tempted to do more pvp. (There were also badges for taking out zombies.
Make scenarios like you find in Warhammer etc.. Let there be things happening in the zone/instance area.

Because of the lack of scenarios, pvp comes on the bottom of my list of things to do. Sorry.

Lady Arete on Unionhandbook
My Excel Badge tool

 

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For me, in terms of time spent it's badges>>>>MA>[a lot more >s]>PVP. The only time I've actually PVPed was in pursuit of badges. Although I'd probably be casually interested in PVP if it was easier to get involved in, and there was actually some of it around. It would be nice to get the rep badges, and I hate the idea of farming for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanatos View Post
There's only 25,000 posts in the MA section of the forums, whereas the PVP section has about 80,000 posts.
You made a slight miscalculation, here, as the MA is split over two different sections of the forums, with a total of ~46000 posts. Also, the PVP forums go back as far as October 2005 (although a lot of the posts have clearly been lost over time), whereas obviously the MA section posts go back only to April 2009.

Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea View Post
Your emphatic no, is emphatically wrong. Synapse works on badges, powers, merits, and drops. So time he spends doing one thing necessarily takes time from any other thing.
:rolls eyes: Yes, I realize Synapse is the rewards dev as well as a powers one. He also is not the only powers dev, meaning that while he is working on those badges, both Castle and Black Scorpion can work on other areas. With that said I don't really believe that adding those badges took up more of his time then the 1 powerset I know he worked on (i.e. EC) and he may have worked on more then that, which was my point.

--Rad

/whereami:

 

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Interesting responses. More mixed than I expected.

 

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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
Sure, there's some selection bias there - AE buildings are considerably smaller than PvP zones, so it's easier to find people
OTOH, people playing AE missions are only visible to others when they're between missions. The majority of the time, they're inside instanced missions.

Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

For me, it's AE > Badges >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... > PvP, although to be honest I don't use any of those systems *that* much.

I don't have any published AE arcs, although eventually I'll finish the one I've been working on for the past year, I swear. I do pop in on an occasional basis to grab some tickets for a piece of rare salvage, run one of the select group of arcs that are my favorites, or just to browse the stories and see what I can find. Never farmed, though, so that presumably puts me in the bottom 2% time bracket of AE users.

Every once in a while I try to get a specific badge, but it's only when said badge does something especially useful for me in game or the badge title is just perfect for the character. I don't have any interest in getting badges for their own sake or out of a 'collect them all' mentality. Mostly, the badges I have are the ones I've randomly happened to get without trying.

That's more than I can say for PvPing, though. Before i13, I dabbled around a bit since my dom was actually a decent PvP combo at the point, but I wasn't impressed even then. Mostly I was turned off by the prevailing attitudes, which were pretty foul even before i13. Combine that distate with the poorly thought out i13 changes and I've engaged in PvP exactly twice since then, both immediately after the dom revamp. It might be possible for PvP in this game to be fun with a properly designed system, but not with the existing population, at least for me. Nowadays the only time I go in a PvP zone is to grab shivans, and I haven't ever run into an opposing player while doing so.

@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.

This is what it means to be a tank!