Split the Assault Rifle powerset
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2010-03-27 04:28 in Suggestions and Ideas
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First I said lethal, not smashing. And yes all those sets that do lethal damage are seen as penalized and weaker at end game. Anyone who's played this game for any length of time knows this.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh, like, hmm, all those other sets that do S/L damage;
Broadsword Battle Axe War Mace Martial Arts Katana/Ninja Blade Dual Blades Stone Melee Super Strength Claws All sets that are 'penalised' for having S/L damage, by your logic. |
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That reminds me... don't Boardsword, Battle Axe, and War Mace use pretty much the same animations between them?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Oh, like, hmm, all those other sets that do S/L damage;
Broadsword Battle Axe War Mace Martial Arts Katana/Ninja Blade Dual Blades Stone Melee Super Strength Claws All sets that are 'penalised' for having S/L damage, by your logic. |
Oooo fuse ammo swap with those three and we get. *Dum dum DUMMMMM!!!! * Bases for Elemental Weapon powerset MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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well yah if you read the thread first you'd know that already.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
When did you start working at Paragon Studios? Are you the new powers guy they haven't told us they hired some time ago?
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The M203 grenade launcher (under an M16) can be use for plastic bullets/stun shot also certain types of these weapons can use oversized shotgun shells for buckshot
OK maybe they aren't called bean bags but the tech for an assault rifle to use em exists today.
The AR set is clearly inspired by 'Aliens', specifically the final sequence where Ripley takes a Pulse rifle and tapes a Flame thrower to it and goes hunting the little girl.
http://www.altrion.org/max/aliens/tec-personal.html
has data on the weapons there.
In a world where interdimensional travel is the norm for us, the AR set really isn't a technological leap.
And I find the set enormous fun, my first level 50 blaster was AR and he still gets played a lot.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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It's the usual form of comicbook embelishment. Why would you rename/replace the Assault rifle set IF a real world assault rifle can pull all the same stunts though?| I actually used that dragon breath thing in my shotgun power examples, though I didn't know the name of it. Anyway, that's not so much a flamethrower as a quick burst of fire. It only lasts a split second, it's not like the current AR set where you can spew a continuous stream of fire. |
What I would agree with, however, is offering weapon attacks as a power pool choice, yes this lets you 'double stack' on some attacks but then you can double stack the leadership powers on a VEAT plus, if you're playing AR why would you take weaker versions of powers you already have (not to mention the horrendous amounts of redraw switching between them since the power pools would use the shotgun model)?
I know these would be better as APP's but 1) villains don't get access to them and 2) everyone should have the opportunity to 'keep something for close encounters'.
This example is just made up off the top of my head, whether it's balanced or not, I have NO idea.
Shotgun power pool:
Buckshot: Same as the Assault rifle power.
Beanbag: Same as the assault rifle power.
Rock salt: Single target attack with a chance to stun (Think a ranged version of Boxing).
Dragon's Breath: works like buckshot crossed with flamethrower, it's a cone but it's a quick burst of flame so only does frontloaded damage, equal to about half of ignites total damage.
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I'm not saying the set doesn't fit within the CoX universe, or that it isn't fun, but it's a little too specific. You'd have more thematic options with normal shotguns and assault rifles. Anyone can pick up simple guns and fight with them, but only a specific type of character is going to get their hands on something like the current AR.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
In a world where interdimensional travel is the norm for us, the AR set really isn't a technological leap.
And I find the set enormous fun, my first level 50 blaster was AR and he still gets played a lot. |
We have 6 different powersets that essentially come down to hitting people with a simple melee weapon, and only 2 for guns. I just feel it should be more balanced and this is the way to do it.
Have you looked in Lady Jade's Power suggestion thread? There are alot of ideas in there.
Fair warning, I am only quoting these too because I'm biased and REALLY want a freaking sniper set.
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Power Set Name: Sniper Primary/Secondary/Pool: Primary Archetype: Blaster 1. Quickshot - Similar animation to Burst (Sniper uses a new gun model from AR) - Ranged, Minor DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF, Recharge: Fast 2. Pot Shot - Similar to Slug - Ranged, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF, Recharge: Moderate 3. .300 Winchester - Aim and shoot with rifle butt to the character's shoulder (hmm... clipping problems?) - Sniper, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF, Foe -Speed, Recharge: Slow 4. Laser Sight - Adds a red laser to the gun model, which tapers off after a few feet - Auto: Self +ACC, +DMG, Recharge: Long 5. .338 Lupa - Character ***** the rifle and fires with the rifle butt to the character's shoulder - Sniper, High DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF, Recharge: Slow 6. .50 BMG - Character locks & loads a BMG shell before firing from the shoulder - Sniper, Extreme DMG(Lethal), Foe -DEF, Fear, Recharge: Long 7. Conserve Time - Similar animation to Conserve Energy - Self Interrupt Reduction, Recharge: Very Long 8. 20mm Tank Buster - Character loads a Tank Buster shell and fires from the shoulder while kneeling - Sniper, Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smashing), Moderate (Targeted AoE) DoT(Fire), Special vs. Robots, Foe -DEF, Recharge: Very Long 9. Bunker Buster Rocket - Character loads a rocket and fires rifle with gun in an arc while braced against ground - Sniper (Targeted AoE), Superior DMG(Fire/Smashing), Moderate DoT(Fire), Knockback, Special vs. Objects, Foe -DEF, Self -Recovery, Recharge: Very Long |
- - - - LINE BREAK! MUAHAHAHAHA - - - -
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Power Set Name: Sniper Rifle (Orginaly wanted to called Specialist...) Primary/Secondary or Pool Power: Primary Arch-type it is for: Blaster / Corruptors List of Powers
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- - - - LINE BREAK! MUAHAHAHAHA - - - -
Throw a bone and someone might dig up a skeleton.
The AA-12 Shotgun
USAS-12 Made in South Korea by Daewoo.
H&K CAWS automatic shotgun
Nope. Shotguns are fine just as they are in the Assault Rifle set. whether they be the main weapon . . .
Or as an attachment.
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Smashing and lethal are the two most heavily resisted types in game. And myself and others I've played with don't find them 'penalised' or 'weaker'. I'd love to see your evidence of this.|
Originally Posted by Zaion
First I said lethal, not smashing. And yes all those sets that do lethal damage are seen as penalized and weaker at end game. Anyone who's played this game for any length of time knows this.
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And passive agressively insulting my game knowledge is not appreciated.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Attempt at being funny following
Can he actively agressively insult your game knowledge?
This ends the attempt at being funny
What if there were sub versions of the existing powersets. Sort of like how they set up the Soldiers of Arachnos. Level to a certian point. Do respec force (so it's not just some willy nilly deal), and unlock the chance to keep the current set up even when you respec or switch to a more specialized version of the chosen set(s)?
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They could probably do that but they would be Epic powersets since the only sets that do that sort of thing are the Veats and Heats. They could add a new EAT or two, to the Neutral Preatorian side but I doubt they'll go with guns. They'll probably do something different. Maybe focusing on magic or mutation.
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Originally Posted by Azerrath
Attempt at being funny following
Can he actively agressively insult your game knowledge? This ends the attempt at being funny What if there were sub versions of the existing powersets. Sort of like how they set up the Soldiers of Arachnos. Level to a certian point. Do respec force (so it's not just some willy nilly deal), and unlock the chance to keep the current set up even when you respec or switch to a more specialized version of the chosen set(s)? |
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Yup, much better |
Originally Posted by Azerrath
Attempt at being funny following
Can he actively agressively insult your game knowledge? This ends the attempt at being funny |
that way I can bring out the big franken-gun 
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I would at least like the option of customizing the type of weapon I use for each power. Same set, but have the option to re-draw a different skin per power.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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hmm.... i think i like this idea. but if you don't use a power that puts the weapon away between each shot you will have some major issues with redraw.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I would at least like the option of customizing the type of weapon I use for each power. Same set, but have the option to re-draw a different skin per power.
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Got it, KittyKrusader.|
Originally Posted by Zaion
I could animate a gun firing in my sleep.
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Originally Posted by Zaion
I agree, a sniper set would be interesting but I can't for the life of me think of more than a couple powers to add to it. How do you build an entire powerset around the concept of "one shot, one kill?"
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For another thing:
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Originally Posted by Azerrath
Have you looked in Lady Jade's Power suggestion thread? There are alot of ideas in there.
Fair warning, I am only quoting these too because I'm biased and REALLY want a freaking sniper set. |
(Edit: IIRC, I designed the set because I wanted a character where it was possible to stack 5 copies of a Snipe's set bonus)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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We have those 6 melee sets, and we also have dev acknowledgement that if they'd had a choice about a different way to do that, they would have. So why are you trying to push them down a design road they've already said is a bad idea?|
Originally Posted by Zaion
I'm not saying the set doesn't fit within the CoX universe, or that it isn't fun, but it's a little too specific. You'd have more thematic options with normal shotguns and assault rifles. Anyone can pick up simple guns and fight with them, but only a specific type of character is going to get their hands on something like the current AR.
We have 6 different powersets that essentially come down to hitting people with a simple melee weapon, and only 2 for guns. I just feel it should be more balanced and this is the way to do it. |
I wouldn't mind if they revamped AR to make it more like Dual Pistols, and had an Ammo Swap, but dividing it into 3 full sets is not the way to go.
Especially since then you'd have to come up with a solution that handles what you've just done to all the people with AR characters who like having the options.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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The sugggestion was so awesome in my mind I had to qoute it yet again. What's the point if you don't qoute awesome?
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
For another thing:The first listed set was one I created |
Also, I really liked the idea of that self interrupt reduction power
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Exactly my point. Sniper rifles in reality are designed to kill people in one shot from a tremendous distance, how do you build a powerset around that principle in a game like this?|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
For one thing, snipes in this game are not "one shot one kill".
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The suggestions posted here are certainly interesting, but IMO don't do the sniper principle justice. I don't believe most games do or could though anyway, so I'd be happy with more options in any form.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
We have those 6 melee sets, and we also have dev acknowledgement that if they'd had a choice about a different way to do that, they would have. So why are you trying to push them down a design road they've already said is a bad idea?
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I'm truly glad they handled the melee sets the way they did. The alternative would be a simple "armed melee" set where you pick a weapon model but they all do the same animation using the same powers. So you'd "Slash" with a club and "Smash" with a dagger, and they wouldn't have any of the flair we have with the current sets. That's sort of exactly how I see the AR set though.
I think I should have used a different thread title.
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OH wow I'm pretty sure when I suggested that I got flamed and -repped for it
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
We have those 6 melee sets, and we also have dev acknowledgement that if they'd had a choice about a different way to do that, they would have. So why are you trying to push them down a design road they've already said is a bad idea?
I wouldn't mind if they revamped AR to make it more like Dual Pistols, and had an Ammo Swap, but dividing it into 3 full sets is not the way to go. Especially since then you'd have to come up with a solution that handles what you've just done to all the people with AR characters who like having the options. |
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@Inconclusive
I'm with Techbot on this one.
[The following is my attempt on understanding the working of the Developers minds] I think the reason why the Assault Rifle is the way it is is to add flavour to it. Look at it this way; how many ways can you fire a gun? Look at the Burst, Slug, Beanbag and Buckshot animations. They're practically all the same, but with slightly different sound effects. Now look at Flamethrower. It looks different, doesn't it? Not only does it look different, it's a different attack, while keeping in with the whole firearm theme.
Do this for me; give me nine different ways you can shoot a shotgun. For an extra challenge (and considering you like making soldier characters by the sound of one of your posts) give me nine realistic ways, because chances are, they'll all be the same. One handed? Well, sorry to burst your bubble but unless you're using a Sawn-off Shotgun and not a SPAS-12, USAP-12 or AA-12, you're going to skull yourself when the recoil knocks the gun back into your face is snaps your arm in half.
I'm going out on a limb here by saying this, but I'm assuming you only joined the game recently (or recently enough), because the only AR model used to the 'abomination gun' or the Legacy Assault Rifle. If you look at that you'll notice various barrels which correspond with the different functions (flamethrower, assault rifle, shotgun). The thing is though, it's not entirely unrealistic because you can attach a grenade launcher to an assault rifle, or a shotgun.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
hmm.... i think i like this idea. but if you don't use a power that puts the weapon away between each shot you will have some major issues with redraw.
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Sure, but since it's on a "per-power" basis, you could leave those powers at default.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
A big hell no on this suggestion.
Do not assume people dislike the Assault Rifle just because you do. I would personally ruin your lawn ornaments if any of your suggestions got through.
I love my Franken-Gun. If it existed in the real world I would use nothing else.
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Why? Why try to come up with fancy ways to fire a shotgun or assault rifle? There aren't fancy ways in reality, so why would somebody pick that set expecting to get something like that? You can do all sorts of things with the projectiles, different colors, speeds, add visible wake effects to add to the appearance of power, explosions on impact (explosive rounds), but actually firing the gun no, you don't need to do back flips or back shots, just point and shoot. Maybe aim a little more on some shots, or hold the gun at your side on others, but that's all that's needed.|
Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
Look at it this way; how many ways can you fire a gun? Look at the Burst, Slug, Beanbag and Buckshot animations. They're practically all the same, but with slightly different sound effects. Now look at Flamethrower. It looks different, doesn't it? Not only does it look different, it's a different attack, while keeping in with the whole firearm theme.
Do this for me; give me nine different ways you can shoot a shotgun. For an extra challenge (and considering you like making soldier characters by the sound of one of your posts) give me nine realistic ways, because chances are, they'll all be the same. One handed? Well, sorry to burst your bubble but unless you're using a Sawn-off Shotgun and not a SPAS-12, USAP-12 or AA-12, you're going to skull yourself when the recoil knocks the gun back into your face is snaps your arm in half. |
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Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
I'm going out on a limb here by saying this, but I'm assuming you only joined the game recently (or recently enough), because the only AR model used to the 'abomination gun' or the Legacy Assault Rifle. If you look at that you'll notice various barrels which correspond with the different functions (flamethrower, assault rifle, shotgun). The thing is though, it's not entirely unrealistic because you can attach a grenade launcher to an assault rifle, or a shotgun.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
Do not assume people dislike the Assault Rifle just because you do.
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Anyway...
If apparently we must have fancy shamancy animations. You could do it with the way the bullets travel/animate with the shotgun. FlameThrower ish weapon same way.
If anything, the only reason I know there wouldn't be a sniper set is because it would hard to think of that many animiations for point and shoot.
For a bit of extra honesty, while I will admit that Dual Pistols is cool... those animations actualy put me off the set. I'll watch others play it but a lot of that movement is just annoying/needless to me.
There's a grenade round (M30 Grenade), obviously, however the grenade attachment can also take enlarged shotgun rounds (Buckshot/Beanbag) and there is such a thing as Dragon's Breath rounds (Flamethrower and ignite) and any assault rifle is usually capable of single shot (sniper rifle/slug), semi-auto (burst) and full auto (full auto obviously).