I've heard a lot about the new hotness that is DP/Kin
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-03-15 21:03 in Corruptors
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AMAZING, Mixing chemical Rounds with my debuffs made me giggle like a little school girl. I would pull the baddies with RI then pop a purp...they would come to me and I would laugh maniacally while CC was running. Once they were held I would use EF then let loose with the Aoe's.
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Originally Posted by biomechanic
But I'm kind of tired of /kin/.
Having a /kin corr, a /kin controller, and 2 kin/ defenders, I'm looking to branch out. I wasn't terribly thrilled with DP/Dev on test, and I'm on the tired side of /dark as well. How is DP/Rad? |
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might have to try that for a defender |
Originally Posted by Negate
AMAZING, Mixing chemical Rounds with my debuffs made me giggle like a little school girl. I would pull the baddies with RI then pop a purp...they would come to me and I would laugh maniacally while CC was running. Once they were held I would use EF then let loose with the Aoe's.
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You know...I'm torn between DP/RAD/not PSY. And RAD/DP/PSY. The concept calls for PSY Epic! But Corrupters lack it! |
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
might have to try that for a defender
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I guess my biggest problem with DP/Kin is the same problem I have with Fire Control / Kin. Fire Control on it's own is a busy set. Kinetics on it's own is a busy set.
Putting two busy sets together... and things fall apart. Very few Fire / Kinetic controllers know when to stop controlling and when to start being kinetics when on teams. They tend to be great at soloing, but then skip out on class defining powers like increased density.
In the same way, DP / Kin mixtures share the same problems. There's not really a skippable power in the Dual Pistols lineup. Sure, with enough recharge, you could get away with avoiding empty clips and taking just bullet rain for some of the AOE coverage. Sure, Fulcrum Shift + Hail of Bullets = fun.
Is it really a new hotness though? Judging from my test server experience? No. It's not.
Dual Pistols is really best when coupled with a "low" maintenance set like Sonic or Force Field, where the bubbles help make up for the lack of -mez protection that make getting in close to a fight a perilous event, and a focus can be put on slotting the DP powers rather than the buff / debuff powers.
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Fire/kin controller is actually middle of the road in terms of busyness. Mind/kin is far worse. ID is in no way a class defining power. It's not even within the top 4 of it's own powerset, but is nice power to have if you can fit it in. DP is in no way a set that you need to get all of the powers from. The issue with DP/kin is the long animations of DP countering /kin's ADD playstyle. I would still pick Ice, Fire, Sonic, and Rad, as better picks for /kin. DP/kin is merely FotM because DP is the new shiney.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
I guess my biggest problem with DP/Kin is the same problem I have with Fire Control / Kin. Fire Control on it's own is a busy set. Kinetics on it's own is a busy set.
Putting two busy sets together... and things fall apart. Very few Fire / Kinetic controllers know when to stop controlling and when to start being kinetics when on teams. They tend to be great at soloing, but then skip out on class defining powers like increased density. In the same way, DP / Kin mixtures share the same problems. There's not really a skippable power in the Dual Pistols lineup. Sure, with enough recharge, you could get away with avoiding empty clips and taking just bullet rain for some of the AOE coverage. Sure, Fulcrum Shift + Hail of Bullets = fun. Is it really a new hotness though? Judging from my test server experience? No. It's not. Dual Pistols is really best when coupled with a "low" maintenance set like Sonic or Force Field, where the bubbles help make up for the lack of -mez protection that make getting in close to a fight a perilous event, and a focus can be put on slotting the DP powers rather than the buff / debuff powers. |
So, is it possible to get Perma-AM with DP/Rad?
I started my DP/Traps back on the day DP went live, and frankly, I'm about ready to reroll, juts cause I don't think traps is my thing. All that time wasted planting stuff, and the randomness of letting it auto traget stuff, all the more or less useless powers, for the few shinning gems...
And I'm done forcing myself to level a toon just because i want to "have" it even if it's not that fun to play... (I have a touch of OCD. More like OCB.) I did it on an Elec/Elec/Elec blaster, because Elec has always been a personal FAV superpower of mine, and I wanted an Elec guy from day one, but just didn't really like the set all that much... but after at least half a dozen failed attempts, i got one. And relised... what a waste of time.. to level something out of stuberness... So no more!
I WAS planing on running DP/Traps because i've not level a traps user yet, and it's the only buff/debuff/support" powerset I haven't leveled to 50 in some what shape or form. But I'm not having fun with it... Same goes for mind control. the only control set i haven't leveled to 50 yet. It's just IMO no fun.. so, screw it. Of what benefit is it anyways? To say i have it and never use them? No..
That's why I've decided to run a DP/Rad. I've ran a rad, and i had alot of fun with it. So that's what i'm going to do! 
And i'm glad to hear it seems to be an effective set.!
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
So far two testimonials about how certain DP combinations don't work for certain players, these don't mean it won't work for anybody. Alt, alt, alt until you find a set that works for you. During test, I found a syngery with DP/traps, DP/dark, and DP/kin. I was frustrated that storm seemed clumsy with DP at first. I have a defender at level 30 now, maybe as a secondary the set would flow better.
I have a Kin/DP defender and so far no animation crunch, but I can see that as an area of concern, Amy.
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Riiight, so since few people are actually talking about /rad...
I enjoy /rad. I'm on my second /rad corr, who is the DP/rad. Things going for it:
1. Two arguably skippable powers (Fallout and Choking cloud), three if you don't like EMP, or even FOUR if you don't want a rez with Mutation. This can loosen up your build considerably. Me, I like EMP and a Rez (since I team a fair amount), so don't necessarily count those out.
2. Debuffs will really help with DP/ 's oft-lamented less-than-UBER damage. Enervating Field will help drop resistance to your commonly-resisted lethal damage, while helping the other 30% on your secondary damage. Radiation Infection will work well with DP's innate -def as well has provide some survivability with some -toHit. Unfortunately these are both AOE aggro fields, so don't think you're invulnerable.
3. Radiation Infection + AOEs = Glee. Mobs can run all they want, they'll just die tired. I believe RI hits the slow cap pretty quick, though, so I'm not sure how it will stack with cryo rounds.
4. PBAOE self-heal at level 1. Not a huge healburst like in /kin, but you can stand back and pop mobs at distance and heal yourself.
/rad is less fast-and-furious than /kin but it is also a lot more fire-and-forget. If that meshes with how you're looking to run a DP/ Corr, try it out.
"...his madness keeps him sane.": My Profile on VirtueVerse
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Originally Posted by twelfth
Riiight, so since few people are actually talking about /rad...
I enjoy /rad. I'm on my second /rad corr, who is the DP/rad. Things going for it: 1. Two arguably skippable powers (Fallout and Choking cloud), three if you don't like EMP, or even FOUR if you don't want a rez with Mutation. This can loosen up your build considerably. Me, I like EMP and a Rez (since I team a fair amount), so don't necessarily count those out. 2. Debuffs will really help with DP/ 's oft-lamented less-than-UBER damage. Enervating Field will help drop resistance to your commonly-resisted lethal damage, while helping the other 30% on your secondary damage. Radiation Infection will work well with DP's innate -def as well has provide some survivability with some -toHit. Unfortunately these are both AOE aggro fields, so don't think you're invulnerable. 3. Radiation Infection + AOEs = Glee. Mobs can run all they want, they'll just die tired. I believe RI hits the slow cap pretty quick, though, so I'm not sure how it will stack with cryo rounds. 4. PBAOE self-heal at level 1. Not a huge healburst like in /kin, but you can stand back and pop mobs at distance and heal yourself. /rad is less fast-and-furious than /kin but it is also a lot more fire-and-forget. If that meshes with how you're looking to run a DP/ Corr, try it out. |
Waiting for Corrs to get a psi epic (concept demanded it!), so I went RAD/DP.
But pretty much all this
Skipping 4 powers on the RAD/ side (Mutation, Chocking Cloud, Fallout, and EMP Pulse). Mutation is handy, but it's like I said with my Ill/RAD, "You didn't invite the RAD to the team for rez 
"Allowed me to grab all but Suppressive Fire from DP. Which I could pick up, but don't really care for. I could easily stack it with another hold power, just don't feel the need for it.
With my planned build (and stealing of IOs from another toon most likely, so I can IO out my RAD/DP), I'll have enough defense, backed by RI's -ToHit, I should get around nicely
At least, that's how it works for my DM/Sonic Defender, should work just as well with RAD/DP.
I hate having to wait till lvl 38 for HoB now :/ Sooo, exemping lower than lvl 33 will be less fun, but so far at lvl 19, it seems to be working out rather well.
For a Corr, I would only think it would be better!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
BAH! No Offense but why would one not take EMP? It's the best Hold in the entire game *_*.
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I agree very much with you Negate. It also has a huge burst of regeneration debuff.
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Originally Posted by Negate
BAH! No Offense but why would one not take EMP? It's the best Hold in the entire game *_*.
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Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
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No ROOM! I'd have to give something up!
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Originally Posted by Negate
BAH! No Offense but why would one not take EMP? It's the best Hold in the entire game *_*.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
@Psy-Indeed
I guess so Brand...I couldn't do it after I finally saw what it can do but if you don't have room, then I understand :P.
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Hmmm...on a DP/RAD I could fit it in. On my RAD/DP, I can't. :/ The cost of having Tier 2 shields, vs Corrs shields being tier 1.|
Originally Posted by Negate
@Psy-Indeed
I guess so Brand...I couldn't do it after I finally saw what it can do but if you don't have room, then I understand :P. |
But Corrs still lack a PSY Epic! *Sighs* I just can't win.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
hmmm didnt think about DP/Rad...
runs to go fire up Mids.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Granted the idea of making a DP character, reguardless if its a Corruptor or a Defender Class with Kinetics or Radiant Aura makes me raise a eye-brow and say NO WAY IN HELL!Thats just my personal opinion and shouldnt offend anyone in any way.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
No ROOM! I'd have to give something up!
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I find Rad/ and Kin/ to be lack luster sets for any AT other then the possibilities of a capable Controller.This also is just my opinion.
However appauling I find the use of these sets, theres plenty of ways to fix the NO ROOM issue.
First one is my personal favorite.Use Ninja Run instead of taking a Travel pool.
By level 40 you can easly have Swift, Health, and Stamina on any character build, and be shy only 1 single power between both of your chosen sets for your build.
Iv been curious as to why people have such a issue with lacking powers and having to choose carefully from a staggering amount of power choices due to bad build designs.
The easiest example would be to use the example of 1 of my characters.My SD/Axe Tanker.
It has every single power from top to bottom for its Axe Secondary, and is only missing Grant Cover from his Shield set at level 40.Yes, he has Swift, Health, and Stamina from the Fittness Pool as well.Currently using SOs, he has no Endurance Issues, nore does he have any issues in the Damage/Defense Departments either.
I still have starting at level 41 a Epic Pool choice.This is how I build every character iv got.I litterally dont short change my builds like many people do by taking the Fighting Pool, as well as the Stealth Pool, or even any of the Travel Pools.
Too many people build for Defense, or whatever they feel the character needs, and the majority of the time it gimps it completly.
Iv been capable of taking builds like a Traps/Rad and Tanking for a team when a Tanker couldnt be found or we had a horrible Tanker on the team.I held the Agro and dished good damage because I didnt have to skip anything, but I did skip Web Grenade, because Honsetly...really?Same thing with my Dark/Dark Defender.It could grab the Agro, and hold it like a Tanker.
None of my builds need to take the Fighting Pool, or a Travel or Stealth Pool.
As for DP/Kin being the new Hotness?I havent seen one on Freedom yet.Iv seen alot of DP/EM Blasters, and like 1 DP/Dev, and I dont even recall seeing any Defenders using DP.I rarely play Villians Side, so I cant make a statement for sure on Corruptors.
Long Story short, if you say youv got no room on your build to take a power, then you may be doing something wrong and short changing the ability of your character for a lesser helpful power from the pools.
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You do realize that the way you consider the best way to build a toon aka "take all the primary and secondary powers and screw the pool powers", is found to be gimp by many of those who frequent the boards here?|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Granted the idea of making a DP character, reguardless if its a Corruptor or a Defender Class with Kinetics or Radiant Aura makes me raise a eye-brow and say NO WAY IN HELL!Thats just my personal opinion and shouldnt offend anyone in any way.
I find Rad/ and Kin/ to be lack luster sets for any AT other then the possibilities of a capable Controller.This also is just my opinion. However appauling I find the use of these sets, theres plenty of ways to fix the NO ROOM issue. First one is my personal favorite.Use Ninja Run instead of taking a Travel pool. By level 40 you can easly have Swift, Health, and Stamina on any character build, and be shy only 1 single power between both of your chosen sets for your build. Iv been curious as to why people have such a issue with lacking powers and having to choose carefully from a staggering amount of power choices due to bad build designs. The easiest example would be to use the example of 1 of my characters.My SD/Axe Tanker. It has every single power from top to bottom for its Axe Secondary, and is only missing Grant Cover from his Shield set at level 40.Yes, he has Swift, Health, and Stamina from the Fittness Pool as well.Currently using SOs, he has no Endurance Issues, nore does he have any issues in the Damage/Defense Departments either. I still have starting at level 41 a Epic Pool choice.This is how I build every character iv got.I litterally dont short change my builds like many people do by taking the Fighting Pool, as well as the Stealth Pool, or even any of the Travel Pools. Too many people build for Defense, or whatever they feel the character needs, and the majority of the time it gimps it completly. Iv been capable of taking builds like a Traps/Rad and Tanking for a team when a Tanker couldnt be found or we had a horrible Tanker on the team.I held the Agro and dished good damage because I didnt have to skip anything, but I did skip Web Grenade, because Honsetly...really?Same thing with my Dark/Dark Defender.It could grab the Agro, and hold it like a Tanker. None of my builds need to take the Fighting Pool, or a Travel or Stealth Pool. As for DP/Kin being the new Hotness?I havent seen one on Freedom yet.Iv seen alot of DP/EM Blasters, and like 1 DP/Dev, and I dont even recall seeing any Defenders using DP.I rarely play Villians Side, so I cant make a statement for sure on Corruptors. Long Story short, if you say youv got no room on your build to take a power, then you may be doing something wrong and short changing the ability of your character for a lesser helpful power from the pools. |
Seriously, get over yourself. You have your way of building things, and others here have theirs. Funny part is, Id rather have theirs than yours.
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No. Needed Hover. The character still needs to keep to concept. And while some sets taking all of the Primary or Secondary is a good idea, I wouldn't say this is the case for all sets.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Granted the idea of making a DP character, reguardless if its a Corruptor or a Defender Class with Kinetics or Radiant Aura makes me raise a eye-brow and say NO WAY IN HELL!Thats just my personal opinion and shouldnt offend anyone in any way.
I find Rad/ and Kin/ to be lack luster sets for any AT other then the possibilities of a capable Controller.This also is just my opinion. However appauling I find the use of these sets, theres plenty of ways to fix the NO ROOM issue. First one is my personal favorite.Use Ninja Run instead of taking a Travel pool. By level 40 you can easly have Swift, Health, and Stamina on any character build, and be shy only 1 single power between both of your chosen sets for your build. Iv been curious as to why people have such a issue with lacking powers and having to choose carefully from a staggering amount of power choices due to bad build designs. The easiest example would be to use the example of 1 of my characters.My SD/Axe Tanker. It has every single power from top to bottom for its Axe Secondary, and is only missing Grant Cover from his Shield set at level 40.Yes, he has Swift, Health, and Stamina from the Fittness Pool as well.Currently using SOs, he has no Endurance Issues, nore does he have any issues in the Damage/Defense Departments either. I still have starting at level 41 a Epic Pool choice.This is how I build every character iv got.I litterally dont short change my builds like many people do by taking the Fighting Pool, as well as the Stealth Pool, or even any of the Travel Pools. Too many people build for Defense, or whatever they feel the character needs, and the majority of the time it gimps it completly. Iv been capable of taking builds like a Traps/Rad and Tanking for a team when a Tanker couldnt be found or we had a horrible Tanker on the team.I held the Agro and dished good damage because I didnt have to skip anything, but I did skip Web Grenade, because Honsetly...really?Same thing with my Dark/Dark Defender.It could grab the Agro, and hold it like a Tanker. None of my builds need to take the Fighting Pool, or a Travel or Stealth Pool. As for DP/Kin being the new Hotness?I havent seen one on Freedom yet.Iv seen alot of DP/EM Blasters, and like 1 DP/Dev, and I dont even recall seeing any Defenders using DP.I rarely play Villians Side, so I cant make a statement for sure on Corruptors. Long Story short, if you say youv got no room on your build to take a power, then you may be doing something wrong and short changing the ability of your character for a lesser helpful power from the pools. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I dont know about Dp/Kin it seems to be a little too busy for me . just thinkin about all the cries for SB while im busy doin mah gun dance makes my head hurt
i went with dp/cold. i do ok even tho its my secondary responsible for most of my killing, the pistols make me feel like im shooting spitballs on a drive by
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Although the majority of the time it does just the opposite... Why should I take all the attacks from my attack set when I only need the three or four most powerful ones to run a gapless attack chain? Why should I take any other powers that are completely superfluous and don't actually serve any purpose?|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
*snip*
Too many people build for Defense, or whatever they feel the character needs, and the majority of the time it gimps it completly. *snip* |
My main, for example, is built to be an all-rounder. He has good Defense, good Resistance and good DPS. There is a lot of room for buffs of any type (even Defense because he isn't soft-capped) to allow him to make the most out of a team if I do a TF or something. That's all I *think* he needs and he is probably one of my best characters, and I don't think you can call him gimped if I can solo (without insps or temps) three AVs pounding at me simultaneously.
Planning a build using tools like Mid's is a good idea. Tools like this tell you exactly (even if not directly) how much Recharge, Defense and which powers you need to achieve a certain milestone. This is why "too many people" build for Def, Rech and whatever else. They can easily look up the information that is necessary (IO bonuses, powers they can pick, budget constraints) and build accordingly. I have to say, though, that playing 1-50 with a lvl 50 respec/final build is a bad idea.
P.S. Don't bother with the "Mid's is for people who are unimaginative and bad at maths", that's basically saying architects or engineers who use blueprints and calculators are bad at what they do.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Long story shorts are good. You might do best to start with that rather than end with it.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Long Story short, if you say youv got no room on your build to take a power, then you may be doing something wrong and short changing the ability of your character for a lesser helpful power from the pools.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Well, not everyone has plans to respec at lvl 50, into a completely different build for IOs.|
Originally Posted by DSorrow
Although the majority of the time it does just the opposite... Why should I take all the attacks from my attack set when I only need the three or four most powerful ones to run a gapless attack chain? Why should I take any other powers that are completely superfluous and don't actually serve any purpose?
My main, for example, is built to be an all-rounder. He has good Defense, good Resistance and good DPS. There is a lot of room for buffs of any type (even Defense because he isn't soft-capped) to allow him to make the most out of a team if I do a TF or something. That's all I *think* he needs and he is probably one of my best characters, and I don't think you can call him gimped if I can solo (without insps or temps) three AVs pounding at me simultaneously. Planning a build using tools like Mid's is a good idea. Tools like this tell you exactly (even if not directly) how much Recharge, Defense and which powers you need to achieve a certain milestone. This is why "too many people" build for Def, Rech and whatever else. They can easily look up the information that is necessary (IO bonuses, powers they can pick, budget constraints) and build accordingly. I have to say, though, that playing 1-50 with a lvl 50 respec/final build is a bad idea. P.S. Don't bother with the "Mid's is for people who are unimaginative and bad at maths", that's basically saying architects or engineers who use blueprints and calculators are bad at what they do. |
Except for my Sword using Scrappers, my lvl 50 builds have kept the powers at the same level I planned to take them as I leveled up.
Changes for the sword users on things like 'are they keeping Parry/DA' or 'am I specing out of the lvl 2 attack, that I took for leveling up purposes'.
With other combos, I havent found this to really be a problem.
Though admittedly, others will do other things with their build I wouldn't do. Like travel power at lvl 49, because they dont plan to slot it, and need a power at lower lvl 47 to be max slotted.
Though with Ninja Run, I've gotten by on just that for a travel power on some toons now
Or in a few cases (due to concept) NR + Hover (this is more likely, but alot of my concepts call for Flight ability...whether its Fly or Hover...Hover just gets the nod for being combat friendly).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
But I'm kind of tired of /kin/.
Having a /kin corr, a /kin controller, and 2 kin/ defenders, I'm looking to branch out.
I wasn't terribly thrilled with DP/Dev on test, and I'm on the tired side of /dark as well.
How is DP/Rad?
@Oroborous and @Oroborous2
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From the Groundhog Day Attempt at Citadel: GM, "There's no badge for breaking a TF."