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I could see the either being terribly overpowered, or very worthless, depending on whether or not your illusions are invincible, if they are not, how much HP they have if they are not, how long they can stay out, what their recharge is, or if they can be made permanent. |
Originally Posted by Amir
Caltrops for a clone power; multiple illusionary copies of yourself that do no dmg but u can use like pets for a nice diversion.
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It seems cool, mind you, but I think it would work better as a Tier 9 or something.
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If you can't even get the name of the 1st power in the set right, I don't think you deserve it >_>
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Originally Posted by flameman
Yeah...we should TOTALLY have it for scrappers. That would be awesome. so we should have it. I mean u could just take out sneak, they did that with other stuff. So why can't scrappers have ninjitsu. Right???
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LOL I don't get paid to think of all of that, DEVS can deal with that. The idea sounds cool though. I dunno maybe they're invincible and just can stay out for a limited time, kinda like PA for Illusion.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
I could see the either being terribly overpowered, or very worthless, depending on whether or not your illusions are invincible, if they are not, how much HP they have if they are not, how long they can stay out, what their recharge is, or if they can be made permanent.
It seems cool, mind you, but I think it would work better as a Tier 9 or something. |
Well Ninjitsu already has a tier 9...
I honestly don't think Ninjitsu would be Ninjitsu without stealth. It would essentially be Super Reflexes, which we already have. The theme of Ninjitsu is the additional flexibility that the gadgets in the set have, Caltrops, and Blinding Powder, and the stealth capabilities.
I think that Hide could be replaced directly with Cloaking Device from Devices with no problems at all. That leaves Smoke Flash, which as a Placate may be too connected to Stalkers. Then again, it would give no Critical (Scrappers don't Crit on Placate) so likely the duplication of Caltrops in the Epic Pool would be the larger issue. Personally, I would replace Smoke Flash with Smoke Grenade, so the grenade can be tossed from out of melee and let the Scrapper close to melee without being attacked, like a Stalker, and replace Caltrops with Quickness.
There are any number of combinations that could be used for the replacement, though.
Far as I'm aware. Scrappers arn't shady. They're meant to run to your face, and beat in into the floor.
Stalkers? Yes, meant to be tricky, cohersive, and conniving, for the most part.
...and like in the above post. Ninjutsu wouldn't be Ninjutsu without the stealth.
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Hmmm...according to many...scrappers are meant to be beat you up period, how they do it doesn't matter.|
Originally Posted by Ishaila
Far as I'm aware. Scrappers arn't shady. They're meant to run to your face, and beat in into the floor.
Stalkers? Yes, meant to be tricky, cohersive, and conniving, for the most part. ...and like in the above post. Ninjutsu wouldn't be Ninjutsu without the stealth. |
There's a thread on Super Strength for Scrappers. Which pretty much says that.
Sooo...I wouldn't see why one couldn't be shady. More so, with Stealth, Invis, and Phase Shift as an option.
Personally...
Hide replaced with a Stealth (ala Dark Armor's Cloak of Darkness) and replacing Caltrops with another little trick.
Possibly Glue Pellets! Toss and cause sticky in a small AOE.
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The developers can't get the name of the set itself right, though.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
If you can't even get the name of the 1st power in the set right, I don't think you deserve it >_>
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*rimshot*
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Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
The developers can't get the name of the set itself right, though.
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I like the fact that Ninjitsu has a lot of skippable powers, making for very loose builds. 4 out of 9 powers are completely skippable, if you decide you don't want the stealth power on a scrapper version it would be 5 out of 9 that are skippable.
Smoke Flash, Blinding Powder, Caltrops, and the Elude clone (Kuji-In Retsu?) are all skippable powers. Since the powers would probably be reordered to put Ninja Reflexes and Danger Sense at tier 1 and tier 2, you could skip the stealth too.
Hmmm.....Fire/Ninjitsu scrapper sounds fun.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Just fyi, Smoke Flash does Placate, but it doesn't grant the Hidden status like Placate itself does. So using Smoke Flash doesn't give you a guaranteed crit on the next attack or set up AS. |
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
That leaves Smoke Flash, which as a Placate may be too connected to Stalkers. Then again, it would give no Critical (Scrappers don't Crit on Placate)
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So for Scrappers it'd basically be what it is for Stalkers. A get-out-of-jail-free card. Neat, but skippable. Plus I'm pretty sure if a Scrapper used a power to instantly drop aggro so they could retreat they'd have to turn in their Scrapper badge
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They wouldn't have to turn it in....it'd be forcibly removed until they prove that they have earned the right to be called "scrapper".
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Originally Posted by Silas
Plus I'm pretty sure if a Scrapper used a power to instantly drop aggro so they could retreat they'd have to turn in their Scrapper badge
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This is exactly how it'd go.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Just fyi, Smoke Flash does Placate, but it doesn't grant the Hidden status like Placate itself does. So using Smoke Flash doesn't give you a guaranteed crit on the next attack or set up AS.
So for Scrappers it'd basically be what it is for Stalkers. A get-out-of-jail-free card. Neat, but skippable. Plus I'm pretty sure if a Scrapper used a power to instantly drop aggro so they could retreat they'd have to turn in their Scrapper badge |
So son...I heard you used smoke flash to run away from a fight that was getting rough...
"Well I was losing a lot of hp! I didn't want to die!"
Turn in your scrapper badge...you're off the force.
*throws badge to the floor* "You haven't heard the last of me!" *turns vigilante*
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
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Since Stalkers lose out on Quick Recovery and Damage Auras, Ninjitsu for Scrappers should have Quick Recovery and Shuriken Aura. Or maybe even Caltrops Aura. THINK ABOUT IT!
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You toggle on Shuriken Aura. Shurikens sporadically fly out of your pores, injuring foes nearby. Foes hit by the Shurikens suffer minor lethal Damage over Time, as well as having a chance to be stunned because, holy crap, he sweats Shurikens!
PBAoE minor Lethal DoT, chance for Mag2 Stun.
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Doesn't sound awesome enough. Maybe it could be upgraded to Exploding Shuriken Aura.
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Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
And then you break out on blackheads, clogging up said pores without your knowing.... you go to use your exploding shuriken aura.... and......
*poof*
Good news, you don't have to deal with the acne anymore...
Bad news, the medical reclaimators can't find enough of you to piece together...
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Miss Command Bots/Traps 50 Justice
*others left off due to space issues
omg that would be sooo cool
I don't see /Nin coming to scraps, it would be cool, but out the box without hide and caltrops it is OP for Stalkers, the reason it doesn't make stalkers themselves OP is because they don't do as much damage as Scraps do.
Any powers you replace Hide and Caltrops with would make it insanely OP to scraps.
With 2 powers you almost accomplish what /SR does in 6, a self heal, a -to hit/confuse/sleep, this is s**t hits the fan pull a batman and throw the smoke down and run away.
Seriously, it is already OP for scraps and the set was made for Stalkers, same reason why Doms don't have Illusion control, that set was made for Controllers.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Emphasis on almost. Ninjitsu has noticeably lower defense and defense debuff resistance numbers than SR.
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Originally Posted by Da_Captain
[...]With 2 powers you almost accomplish what /SR does in 6, a self heal, a -to hit/confuse/sleep[...]
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Sorry was comparing the Stalker numbers and had hide turned on, and though the difference is noticable, it is still fairly easy to soft cap defense with IOs, or if you wanted to do it indirectly you could use blinding powder to help you get there without IOs.
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Originally Posted by Silas
Emphasis on almost. Ninjitsu has noticeably lower defense and defense debuff resistance numbers than SR.
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"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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It's been said a number of times that the game isn't balanced around IOs, so the degree of ease with which the sets can be softcapped isn't really relevant.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
Sorry was comparing the Stalker numbers and had hide turned on, and though the difference is noticable, it is still fairly easy to soft cap defense with IOs, or if you wanted to do it indirectly you could use blinding powder to help you get there without IOs.
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I will agree, though, that even by the 'canon' metric of SO strength, ninjitsu is probably still stronger than SR - but to me, that says more about SO'd SR than it does about nin. Would nin really end up stronger than something like SO'd regen or wp? I doubt it. It's got tricks, yes. It's got a decent mix of healing and defense, true. But it doesn't have the limitless endurance or extreme health recovery of regen or WP, the instant full heal of dark, the significant offense boosts of fire and shield, the everything-and-the-kitchen-sink-too mez protection of WP and shield, etc.
Would it be a good secondary? Of course. Would it be stronger than SR? Possibly, especially on SOs. Would it be overpowered? I don't think so, especially if you're careful not to replace hide and caltrops with anything too strong. Swap hide for a generic stealth and caltrops for something innocuous like a sleep dart (*not* quickness as has often been suggested), move the stealth to level 10, and I'd call it good.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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Welcome to the forums and congratulations on putting your first post in the correct forum. THE SCRAPPER FORUM! YEEAAAAAHHHHH! |
Originally Posted by AWESOM-O 4000
omg that would be sooo cool
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I still think Hide should be replaced with Quick Recovery.
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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
That's plain wrong. Ninjitsu is far from OP, it's just well-rounded.|
Originally Posted by Da_Captain
I don't see /Nin coming to scraps, it would be cool, but out the box without hide and caltrops it is OP for Stalkers, the reason it doesn't make stalkers themselves OP is because they don't do as much damage as Scraps do.
Any powers you replace Hide and Caltrops with would make it insanely OP to scraps. With 2 powers you almost accomplish what /SR does in 6, a self heal, a -to hit/confuse/sleep, this is s**t hits the fan pull a batman and throw the smoke down and run away. |
No idea what they' replace Caltrops with, but let's assume Hide would be replaced with a Cloak of Darkness clone:
1) Smoke Flash is the most skipped power in Nin Stalkers. C'mon, a PbAOE placate that doesn't let you crit? Big deal on a defensive set, even on SOs you won't be using it a lot, plus this power makes enemies aggro on your teammates.
2) Blinding Powder is mag TWO, that means it affects minions only. I only have it because of the cheap purple set for confuse (which provides a nice 5% ranged def when 6-slotted). And the power only gets moderately good when you have the Contagious Confusion proc, meaning level 50. Plus the chance to confuse is only 50%, and again, both the confuse and sleep are mag TWO. That means you won't be relying on it to get out of a situation where you're surrounded by lts or bosses. You can debuff their acc a bit, that's all.
3) Both powers are on a 120 sec base recharge. Shield has a mini nuke on a 90 sec base rech that does Kd and deals 500 damage or something like that with BU+AAO+slotting. A little better than Smoke Flash to 'escape' from a mob, yes?
4) Nin has no resistances like /SR or /Shields (except 22% psi res on the mez protection toggle)
5) Nin can never reach 95% DDR like SR or highly IO'ed out Shields. My fully Io'ed /Nin Stalker has a paltry 34.6% DDR according to Mid's, haven't checked in game yet because I returned today and didn't go play yet. Even Energy Aura can get to 51%ish DDR. Shields can reach 66%ish DDR on SOs, by slotting the def toggles and Grant Cover to max defense.
6) Nin has neither a recharge bonus like SR nor a taunt aura that raises your damage like Shields.
7) Defense would be almost as hard to soft cap as shields, nin toggles give 13.9% base def and shields 11.3%, with slotting they're about the same if you add shields' PhalanxF (which doesn't need slotting and is a passive). So maybe nin would get something like a 3-5% advantage in total def to softcap on a scrapper if it had a cloak of darkness clone, which would of course have to be slotted for endredux and defense.
8) Nin has the ******* knockback hole.
So, yeah.... Nin has a self heal, +perception (like SR) and a little psi resistance, besides some very situational toys on longish recharges (except caltrops but I don't use it anyway, I don't see many scrappers using caltrops either). What's so overpowered about that? Since i13 it's not even the Stalker FOTM in PvP anymore.
I think Ninjitsu fits Stalkers very well, I wouldn't like to see it in scrappers but that would be selfish of me if other people want it. And I view it as a well rounded set, not as a ZOMGWTFOP thing. Hell even scrappers experts like Shred_Monkey say that Shields is overpowered.
Edit : "Ninjitsu isn't OP in Stalkers because they do less damage than Scrappers"...? You really serious about that? So you think all other Stalker secondaries are underpowered since they are shared with Scrappers (except EA)? WTH dude...
Hmmmm this kinda sounds like a good idea.
Trade hide for a a stealth.
Caltrops for a clone power; multiple illusionary copies of yourself that do no dmg but u can use like pets for a nice diversion.