DP-Blasters vs Corrupters vs Defenders


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

I wanted to get some opinions on Dual Pistols. I only got a chance to test the corrupter version when I was on test. My question for you all is this of the 3 AT who do you think gets the most out of DP just using the DP set, who gets the most out of DP when paired with primary and secondary? Who will have the easiest time solo? Who will contribute the most in a group?

I was thinking of going DP/Kin on a corrupter so that in groups the damage will be high and you get scourge. I was also thinking about DP/NRG for the extra range because I dont think DP will kill fast enough like the other sets do to stay alive at range. Or possibly DP/MM so that I can at least use drain psyche right before the tier 9 so that I have a chance to live thru it as a blaster. If I do the set as a defender I was thinking Cold or Traps/DP for the good resists debuffs for grouping. What do you guys think. At this point there are just too many possible choices for this that make it too difficult to choose.


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Posted

Due to the long animations the blaster is going to be able to do his job much easier than the defender or corruptor. You'd be too busy to do both blasting and support; it would just be inefficient.

If you were playing on a team with a squishy tank as a emp/pistols, the tank may end up dying while using one of the longer cast time pistol attacks. Pistols seem too situation to roll with most of the support sets... although they should be fine with sonic shields, force fields and traps. But even then on traps, you might get distracted by all the shotty shotty action and forget to use that trusty poison trap or acid mortar during AV fights when they are needed hehe.

That is ofcourse unless you play a defender or a corruptor like a blaster and don't use any of your support. Which would likely get you kicked from a team faster than widow or spider that skips TTmaneuvers lol But you'd don't sound like that type of person based off your post.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
who do you think gets the most out of DP just using the DP set
Blasters. It's a Blast set and the secondary effects, while diverse, were weakened so that you can't really rely on them to contribute noticeably. Yes, you get the choice between -dmg, DoT, -def, and -spd, but none of them are particularly strong, so you might as well focus on the damage, however mediocre it is.

Quote:
who gets the most out of DP when paired with primary and secondary?
Well, since DP is cursed with a painfully long redraw time (over a second), you're going to want an AT that doesn't need to tap into other powers all that often. DP's animations are low enough that Blasters are going to want to tap their secondaries for more effective attacks, so you've got to choose between Corrupters, which will actually be able to capitalize on the blastiness of it a bit, or Defenders, which will get to ignore it as much as is normal for Defenders to ignore their secondary. Corrupters win out, imo.

Quote:
Who will have the easiest time solo?
Soloing is all about a combination of personal survivability and damage. Corrupters win, hands down. Blasters need more help to survive in melee and if a DP blaster is dipping into his manipulation set left and right, he's gonna have horrible DPS thanks to redraw. A Defender is going to suffer from the low damage that defenders always have to deal with. Corrs strike the best balance.

Quote:
Who will contribute the most in a group?
While that's not really a question concerning Dual Pistols, the Defender will. Team functionality is based around support more than anything else because everyone deals damage and support can make everyone unkillable. Defenders also get the biggest -res value from Piercing Rounds, so you're contributing more additional damage to your team than the additional damage that a Blaster would provide against the same individual target.

Quote:
I was thinking of going DP/Kin on a corrupter so that in groups the damage will be high and you get scourge. I was also thinking about DP/NRG for the extra range because I dont think DP will kill fast enough like the other sets do to stay alive at range. Or possibly DP/MM so that I can at least use drain psyche right before the tier 9 so that I have a chance to live thru it as a blaster. If I do the set as a defender I was thinking Cold or Traps/DP for the good resists debuffs for grouping. What do you guys think. At this point there are just too many possible choices for this that make it too difficult to choose.
For support sets, I would avoid any set in which you have to redraw a lot. The redraw on DP is killer. My personal suggestion would be powersets that require a solid block of support every couple of minutes with solid blocks of blasting afterwards. Forcefields, Sonic Resonance, Dark Miasma, and Radiation Emission are probably the sets that I would most recommend. The shield sets just buff up every 4 minutes to provide a vast majority of their functionality, and the debuff sets generally spend 5-10 seconds at the beginning of combat setting up their killzones and toggles and spend the rest blasting away. Reactive support sets with low cycle time powers would probably be the worst to go with (i.e. Emp, Kin, TA).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
For support sets, I would avoid any set in which you have to redraw a lot. The redraw on DP is killer. My personal suggestion would be powersets that require a solid block of support every couple of minutes with solid blocks of blasting afterwards. Forcefields, Sonic Resonance, Dark Miasma, and Radiation Emission are probably the sets that I would most recommend. The shield sets just buff up every 4 minutes to provide a vast majority of their functionality, and the debuff sets generally spend 5-10 seconds at the beginning of combat setting up their killzones and toggles and spend the rest blasting away. Reactive support sets with low cycle time powers would probably be the worst to go with (i.e. Emp, Kin, TA).
I am playing a Kin/Pistols defender and having fun. That being said, I agree with the above. The redraw is painfully noticeable often enough to be concerning.

On my Pistols/Fire blaster it is frustrating because I want to use Ring of Fire, Fire Sword, and FSC as needed, but often choose to hold up in order to minimize redraw. Its not always even a performance thing either. Ofttimes, I just don't want to put the guns away aesthetically.


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Posted

I have only, and will only be making a dp corr and blaster. This is because I just don't see the point in making defenders anymore. Not saying anything is wrong with em, but I just prefer corrs. That, and the only defender that is stayin on my home server is my empath.

Yes, the damage is lower initially than some other sets, but I don't think it is as bad as most people keep perpetuating. No, it doesn't knock Fire blast off of its perch, but it doesn't feel as slow as electrical blast, so I am pleased.

I still don't understand everyone's gripe about redraw affecting actual performance. Sure, it may not be the smoothest thing in the game, but I don't think it has any bearing on how quickly one is able to call up powers that aren't in the DP set.

I have a DP/kin and a DP/Energy. The blaster hasn't been played at all, but the corr is progressing nicely in her late 20s now. As for the person saying that blasters will undoubtedly solo faster- if anything the buff/debuff gained from corrs and defenders will certainly make things more equitable than one might think. Not saying that the blaster gets the short end of the stick and will be the slowest, but don't underestimate the value of a debuff either.


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Posted

I think Corruptors make out the best with the set. Scourge helps the damage when you need it most, and your secondaries help you survive for the length of time you'll need to kill anything.

Defenders I actually rank second with the set. The damage is quite subpar on this most dated of Archetypes, but your primaries keep you alive with no sweat for the lunar cycle you'll need to kill anything.

Blasters make out the worst. No Aim, no kind of upfront damage boost to take troublesome enemies out quickly, no support set to buy you the killing time you need, and a "nuke" that will probably kill you instead of your enemies. The set is bad business for Blasters.

I understand people are enthralled by the sights and sounds of the set (and they are sexy!) But this is no excuse for the set to be subpar on this level. It's Electric Armor all over again.

It's a weak set, there's no reason to take it on any Arch over anything else other than new sexy shininess, but Corruptors are your best-case scenario if you must roll it.

When the set is buffed (and it will be buffed) I will be justified in this. Just like with Electric Armor.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
For support sets, I would avoid any set in which you have to redraw a lot. The redraw on DP is killer. My personal suggestion would be powersets that require a solid block of support every couple of minutes with solid blocks of blasting afterwards. Forcefields, Sonic Resonance, Dark Miasma, and Radiation Emission are probably the sets that I would most recommend. The shield sets just buff up every 4 minutes to provide a vast majority of their functionality, and the debuff sets generally spend 5-10 seconds at the beginning of combat setting up their killzones and toggles and spend the rest blasting away. Reactive support sets with low cycle time powers would probably be the worst to go with (i.e. Emp, Kin, TA).
Traps is probably also a good contender. Most of the time you can cast your Traps powers at the start of combat and then focus on blasting.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by magikwand View Post
I still don't understand everyone's gripe about redraw affecting actual performance. Sure, it may not be the smoothest thing in the game, but I don't think it has any bearing on how quickly one is able to call up powers that aren't in the DP set.
Redraw doesn't have any effect upon the speed with which you can call up powers outside of the set (or, more accurately, powers that don't use the same weapon as the attack you previously used). What it does affect is the speed with which you attack with your weapon after you used that power from outside of the set. DP already has long animations. The redraw animation is little over a second long. Essentially, whenever you use a power outside of the set, you're forcing your next DP attack to take an extra second to animate. Do you really want your already slow attacks to take longer?


 

Posted

I'm going DP/Kin corruptor.

Damage and recharge buffs by level 10, both on somewhat long recharges so I don't have to constantly spam them. Siphon Speed, IR, and Ninja Run all combine to make a travel power completely redundant. In the late game I won't ever have end problems. And it has a PBAoE nuke (which is crashless?) that I can make awesome with Fulcrum Shift.

If I need to hit Transfusion I'm okay with the redraw in order to keep me alive.

I'll probably make a blaster too, but I have no idea what secondary I'll be taking yet.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
I think Corruptors make out the best with the set. Scourge helps the damage when you need it most, and your secondaries help you survive for the length of time you'll need to kill anything.

Defenders I actually rank second with the set. The damage is quite subpar on this most dated of Archetypes, but your primaries keep you alive with no sweat for the lunar cycle you'll need to kill anything.

Blasters make out the worst. No Aim, no kind of upfront damage boost to take troublesome enemies out quickly, no support set to buy you the killing time you need, and a "nuke" that will probably kill you instead of your enemies. The set is bad business for Blasters.

I understand people are enthralled by the sights and sounds of the set (and they are sexy!) But this is no excuse for the set to be subpar on this level. It's Electric Armor all over again.

It's a weak set, there's no reason to take it on any Arch over anything else other than new sexy shininess, but Corruptors are your best-case scenario if you must roll it.

When the set is buffed (and it will be buffed) I will be justified in this. Just like with Electric Armor.

I agree with everything you've said here. I've been playing a dp corruptor the last few days and the poor damage is very noticeable. The reason everyone loves it is the flashy (great) animations and the fact it's been asked for for so long. It's flash over substance, without a doubt.

And the excuse for the set badly lagging behind other once you factor in IO's with 'the devs don't balance for IO's' is just an excuse for lazy game design. IO's are part of the game and should be considered when designing a powerset. A set that starts off subpar then gets worse with investment is a poorly designed set, power strength-wise.

I think an easy fix would be to improve the different ammo types and actually make them be noticeable improvements over the standard ammo rather than just being different. Using the fire rounds, for example, should boost your damage more than 5 dps, since it's purely a damage based bonus, and should at least move the set into mediocre territory damagewise.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
And the excuse for the set badly lagging behind other once you factor in IO's with 'the devs don't balance for IO's' is just an excuse for lazy game design.
I can't find a source right now, but I believe the actual quote is that content will not be balanced around IOs. I don't believe the dev team ignores IOs when balancing powersets against each other. Like you said, it's lazy game design and I doubt Paragon Studios is that bad.


 

Posted

I found DP/Kin corrupter and DP/MM blaster both fun to play. For the pre-purchase phase I made my DP/Kin. But I'm going to play the GR content with the DP/MM.

I also find it interesting that I haven't read too much about the benefits of swap ammo and suppressive fire. Holding a mob in the early levels for any blasting class is immensley helpful. When the APP's open up in the higher levels you can perma hold a boss. Of course on teams it's not that important, but solo, it's vital.

Just my 2cents.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
I was thinking of going DP/Kin on a corrupter so that in groups the damage will be high and you get scourge. <snip> Or possibly DP/MM so that I can at least use drain psyche right before the tier 9 so that I have a chance to live thru it as a blaster. If I do the set as a defender I was thinking Cold or Traps/DP for the good resists debuffs for grouping. What do you guys think. At this point there are just too many possible choices for this that make it too difficult to choose.
When it was on test, I made a DP/Kin Corruptor prior to the level bump, and played her some at level 38 after the first bump. I found that Fire Blast/Kinetics (which I already have a 50 of) was far more survivable, just due to being able to go back to blasting immediately after Transfusion when it was needed (and it will be needed). The redraw time and longish animations leave you a lot less leeway for error, and Kinetics is a set that doesn't give a lot of play - sure it does well solo, but it's all about timing.

As for the DP/MM - that was my original thought for live, knowing that I'd have Drain Psyche that I use once every 30 seconds instead of Transfusion once ever 4, and Build Up gives me a nice boost without needing to be in the middle of the spawn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Traps is probably also a good contender. Most of the time you can cast your Traps powers at the start of combat and then focus on blasting.
... and then I made a DP/Traps Corruptor, since the person I was teaming with wanted to make a Corruptor. She's worked out pretty well, since I drop an Acid Mortar or Seekers to take the alpha, the FFG helps keep me alive while the spawn drops, Poison Trap is very nice for when I'm in the middle of the spawn and want to use Hail of Bullets without getting hit, and Trip Mine (which I just picked up today) gives me another source of AoE burst via toe-bombing to clear out spawns before they stop choking.

Yes, another primary (such as any of the "summon" ones) would get better use out of what Traps has to offer, but you don't pick Dual Pistols because it's "teh uber", you pick it for the flash and show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
I'm going DP/Kin corruptor.

Damage and recharge buffs by level 10, both on somewhat long recharges so I don't have to constantly spam them. Siphon Speed, IR, and Ninja Run all combine to make a travel power completely redundant. In the late game I won't ever have end problems. And it has a PBAoE nuke (which is crashless?) that I can make awesome with Fulcrum Shift.

If I need to hit Transfusion I'm okay with the redraw in order to keep me alive.
See my comments above about my experience on test with DP/Kin - then again, if you aren't soloing, then the long redraw and animations are far less of an issue since you're not the sole focus for the whole spawn. Also, the randomness of the damage on Hail of Bullets means that several times in the middle of a spawn of 5-7 mobs, I'd hit Fulcrum->Hail, and nothing died. At +1. With an animation that long, you really need things to drop rather than hit you for the entire time.


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Posted

I don't make Defenders. I did a DP/Dark Corr and a DP/MM Blaster. Normally I hate redraw, but it hasn't bothered me at all. I like both toons.


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Posted

The redraw hasn't really bothered me that much, to be honest.

I'm used to playing Regen with weapon sets, so I'm used to redraw. Sure my corruptor and my blaster are squishy, but before epic pools what ones aren't squishy?

Thinking about rerolling as DP/Dark on my corruptor. The -dam on Chem rounds seems like it might add to the -dam from Darkest Night nicely. And later on Fluffy will be a big help.


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Posted

I have a DP/Traps corruptor at level 30. She soloes well for a squishie. She brings quite a few goodies with her to a team. Defense based brutes appear to love her the most for obvious reasons.

Yes, the animations are long. I have found that this is somewhat balanced out by how often I can lay out the AoE damage. Also, traps is more of a fire and forget secondary, so that is no doubt shaping my view of the redraw on the set.

The only issue I have found so far is my ST damage output. However, I've already determined how to shape the build to correct for that in a away that will suit me.

In other words, I have no major gripes about dual pistols. I would not fight against a buff to the ST attacks.


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Posted

A little surprised by the lack of love for Defenders. I found the stronger numbers on the secondary effects to be pretty compelling. I went with Son/DP: the primary isn't very busy, so there's not much redraw, and the resistance shield has nice synergy with the -dam effect from Chemical rounds. Not a swift soloer, but safe as houses, and I get to spend most of my time blazing away.


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Posted

redraw a problem? not for me

AR/Kin
Arch/Dark
Fire/TA
Claw/Regen
Kat/Regen
BS/Regen
DP/Kin
DP/NRG

DP may have its quirks, but it's a fun enough set imo that I overlook it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
I wanted to get some opinions on Dual Pistols. I only got a chance to test the corrupter version when I was on test. My question for you all is this of the 3 AT who do you think gets the most out of DP just using the DP set, who gets the most out of DP when paired with primary and secondary? Who will have the easiest time solo? Who will contribute the most in a group?
"Just using the DP set", Blasters get the most of it. The higher debuffs for the others can't compensate for the Blaster's AT damage mod or for Defiance. However, given DP's lackluster DPS, I think Blasters will be the most disappointed with the set.

Using both Primary and Secondary, and not just DP, I think Corrs are faring the best.

Blasters and Corrs can easily S/L softcap, so I'd consider both of them to have an easier time of it solo. I find the potent de/buffs on Corrs easier to solo with than the Blaster secondaries, but that's my play-style.

Who is the best in a team? The one with the best player behind it. I think there's a few good combinations, but their effectiveness will come down to the player and what a team needs more than any special synergy between DP and something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
I was thinking of going DP/Kin on a corrupter so that in groups the damage will be high and you get scourge. I was also thinking about DP/NRG for the extra range because I dont think DP will kill fast enough like the other sets do to stay alive at range. Or possibly DP/MM so that I can at least use drain psyche right before the tier 9 so that I have a chance to live thru it as a blaster. If I do the set as a defender I was thinking Cold or Traps/DP for the good resists debuffs for grouping. What do you guys think. At this point there are just too many possible choices for this that make it too difficult to choose.
I didn't enjoy DP/NRG. I found myself mezzed with two slow-recharging ranged attacks and an impotent melee attack (since I wasn't in melee) too many times. I do see the appeal of a Secondary that you can dip into for a few buffs and then stick to your Primary for the main battles (that's why I tried the pairing), but I don't think the combo should be the FotM that it is.

I began a DP/MM, but quickly abandoned it. Not because it sucked, but because I already had a 47 Fire/MM that was so obviously always going to outshine the DP/MM, that I didn't see the point.

The one I'm sticking with is a DP/Kin Corr. Kin helps bring the slow recharge and lower DPS of DP into a place where you forget that it has either of those problems.

One possible reason to switch that to a Kin/DP Defender would be aggro. Between the AoEs, debuffs, and then FS, my Corr regularly stole aggro off of the Brutes and then face-planted a second later.

This isn't so much of an issue now I'm looking at S/L softcapping, and it's almost irrelevant in co-op teams with true Tanks, but Defs always do less damage and can level up alongside Tanks from the start, so aggro-theft is much less of an issue. A Kin/DP Def would definitely be weaker at 50 than my DP/Kin Corr, but I might have enjoyed the journey a whole lot more if I hadn't spent as much time on the floor.


 

Posted

Im personally going to go with a Traps/DP build.Iv found that theres not alot any of my Defenders cant handle that a Corruptor can.Scourge is nice, but definatly not enough to push me to play a Corruptor.Neither is the 10% diffrence in base damage enough to convince me either.

Now when it comes to why im going to go with Traps is because of Change Ammo.I wont be completly pigeon holed tp 1 single type of damage.Yes, im aware its only 30% of the damage being changed, and im perfectly fine with that.

I do have a Mid-Level Traps/Rad character that I transfered to another server just to free up the redundant Traps/ Defender remake on my main server.It does rather well on its own and has virtually no issues handling a 0/8 w/bosses mission on his own.a few missions im brave enough to go with 1/8 w/bosses without much change in difficulty.This defender sits at level 28.

The biggest success iv been having with most, if not all of my characters is a power I paid 10 bucks to get.Ninja run.None of my characters have taken a travel pool, and none of them feel the sting of skipping powers and being pushed to take Hasten to supliment the lack of attacks or other powers that would be more helpful.

My Defenders dont have to skip any powers in there Primary or there Secondary and can still fit in Swift, Health, and Stamina from the Fittness Pool.Then still have enough room to cram in the Epic Pool if they so choose to have one.

In my mind, when you have endless attacks on a Defender, Tanker, or other so called low damage build.They have fewer issues by being able to take all of there attacks then if they had to take the Travel pool which many times would force a player such as a Tanker to be pushed towards the fighting pool to spend another 3 powers to compinsate for a short comming of lacking powers in the first place.

By no means do Defenders have issues with Damage.They just deliver it diffrently then say a Blaster or a Corruptor.

Iv watched Blasters run in with a DP/EM type of a build and face plant because they cant handle the alpha, and in many cases, say things along the lines of "Im a Blaster, im used to dying."

I see alot more Blasters using Dual Pistols then any Defenders or Corruptors.The main reason why Traps and being a Defender screams to me is due to the Survivability of my Traps/Rad, theres no way Dual Pistols wouldnt be better all around for a Defender.

I personally belive it was ment more for Corruptors and Defenders then for Blasters.Kinda like how a Tanker is way more solid with Shield Defense then a Brute or a Scrapper is, but they gave it to them so they wouldnt cry about no getting it.I feelt he same was done for Blasters.So they wouldnt cry Shananigans.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded View Post

I personally belive it was ment more for Corruptors and Defenders then for Blasters.Kinda like how a Tanker is way more solid with Shield Defense then a Brute or a Scrapper is, but they gave it to them so they wouldnt cry about no getting it.I feelt he same was done for Blasters.So they wouldnt cry Shananigans.
Do you recycle your posts? I can almost swear you wrote this same thing in another post.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by magikwand View Post
Do you recycle your posts? I can almost swear you wrote this same thing in another post.
Recycled or not, he's still wrong. SD is significantly better for Scrappers than it is for Tankers. The one advantage Tankers have is the higher hp pool and that its easier to softcap for them.

So. Easier to softcap. But since its still easy for Scrappers to softcap, so much for that.
Which leaves SD Tankers with a bigger hp pool and AAO buffing their piddly base damage. As well as a low damage Shield Charge. Okay, cool.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas View Post
Recycled or not, he's still wrong. SD is significantly better for Scrappers than it is for Tankers. The one advantage Tankers have is the higher hp pool and that its easier to softcap for them.

So. Easier to softcap. But since its still easy for Scrappers to softcap, so much for that.
Which leaves SD Tankers with a bigger hp pool and AAO buffing their piddly base damage. As well as a low damage Shield Charge. Okay, cool.
And yet, the Tanker's Shield Charge (and base damage) is still higher damage than a Brute's - and the contribution of AAO is completely washed out in Fury and rendered irrelevant when you consider any set with a damage aura has that aura buffed by Fury. I agree that if you go ahead and softcap Scrappers are the clear winners (crashless nuke on a 90 second recharge?), but Brutes, not Tankers, got the short end of the Shield stick.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silas View Post
Recycled or not, he's still wrong. SD is significantly better for Scrappers than it is for Tankers. The one advantage Tankers have is the higher hp pool and that its easier to softcap for them.

So. Easier to softcap. But since its still easy for Scrappers to softcap, so much for that.
Which leaves SD Tankers with a bigger hp pool and AAO buffing their piddly base damage. As well as a low damage Shield Charge. Okay, cool.
Im not going to agree with you on this.My SD/Axe Tanker hits for over 400 mob wide using Shield Charge at a current level 39 standing on even con'd or +1/8 mobs w/bosses.I perfer not to push up the difficulty because im not soft capped yet and I solo 98% of the time.I simply walk into the mob and grab up some AAO, then KABOOM!

As for piddly damage on a Tanker?Ill have to dissagree even more so.Too many people see high damage ATs as the best in the game.Which is very much the opposite in many cases.Defenders especially get this bad rep all over the place and get looked over by people who dont pay attention to the fact there Primary gives them much higher survivability then the Damage ATs.If that damage AT doesnt kill its target/s, or it misses once too many times then its in BIG trouble vs the ATs that have there lower damage Secondary sets.

Even more so, most Scrappers and Blasters depend on the extended survivability granted from lesser damage classes in general or they are as good as dead.Iv seen Blasters charge in first and in mear seconds they are face down cussing or laughing at there own reckless stupidity.In other cases iv seen Scrappers do the very same thing.

Then there are times where my self and others that play Defenders, Tankers, and ect can solo a large mob or 2 with our "Piddly" Damage while chuckling at that Blaster or Scrapper that felt like they could take the Alpha of the same mob while they lay on the ground dead.

Can a DP/EM Blaster Solo a large 8 man even con'd mob?Maybe.Iv yet to see it though.Can a Traps/DP solo a large 8 man even con'd mob?Most definatly.I can do it on my Traps/Rad rather easly so DP would be just as easy if not easier thanks to Change Ammo.

You can keep your damage, but for my self I want to acctually kill something and survive doing it rather then face planting from a miss, or a botched attack chain and lack of cover from the "Piddly" damage dealers.

Cheers!