Access to Ultramode Closed Beta
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2010-03-03 15:44 in The Global Training Room Test Server
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Given we were given access to the Dual Pistols beta I would assume we would be given access to the Demon Summoning one too, as it appears to be available via GR so is definetly GR content.
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Originally Posted by Coolio
Right!
The parts of GR that are no longer parts of GR will be live before GR goes live. Specifically Dual Pistols out now with GR pre order. Demon Summoning due April with GR pre order. Ultramode due Issue 17. (Issue 17 related stuff also due Issue 17.) Praetoria Zones, Maps, Missions, Badges, etc. due around July when GR goes live. GR Closed Beta should be Praetoria Zones, Maps, Missions, Badges, etc. before they go live. And with the number of players scheduled for GR Closed Beta it's technically going to be an open beta. That is from all currently published information at this time... |
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Aha, but it's some of the GR content you can use outside Praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Given we were given access to the Dual Pistols beta I would assume we would be given access to the Demon Summoning one too, as it appears to be available via GR so is definetly GR content.
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I17's ultramode, Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning are not tied in to Praetoria.
GR's CB should be all the Praetorian stuff.
As for access to test demon summoning, not my department (I'm a CoH/V player) to say why or why not sorry.
Nuff Said...
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Okay, then quit having an inferiority complex (read: I'm not calling you inferior, but quite the other way around). These are the only answers you're going to get. If a dev wanted to answer your question, they would have already. The only response plausible is Mod8 posting "All good answers... nice job boys and girls, really, but all of them are wrong. Thread locked."|
Originally Posted by Oubliette
The majority of these comments are rude, self-congratulatory back-slapping of superiority with each other in an effort to deride me. I've stated several times what I'm interested in seeing in this thread, if you don't have that to offer or have said your piece, please, I'm not asking to be berated, move on.
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This is my own speculation, this is not truth, grain of salt, people:
/conspiracy_nutjob_mode 1
But perhaps the people who got into Dual Pistols closed beta are the loyalty program customers, and that theoretically since the Going Rogue expansion has Dual Pistols (people who have not preordered GR do not get them until they get preorder, or until they get it upon release, so this is still true), the terms of the program are therefore met and everyone who are in Betas going forward would be Loyalty players who did their job in Dual Pistols CB, Veterans, and Family/Friends only going forward. This way, people who are not useful in feedback are pulled out of the pool early and the devs get the people they need covering the important parts.
And let me reinforce that I am not trying to "deride" you in a single sentence: I was in that Closed Beta. I'm not in this one, don't expect to be in any others. If I'm calling your beta feedback useless, I would commit myself to the same qualification. You and I got a taste, the rest of the new hotness is not for us.
/conspiracy_nutjob_mode 0
Again, my own speculation. It's flawed as heck, (would discourage loyalty programs in the future, harkens back to the "Days of Emmert": say one thing and deliver something else, and I'm a little nuts myself, not to mention this would be really frakkin' mean) but let's face it:
Go to any MMO forum and tell me there's no correlation between the current socioeconomic conditions and the negative feedback right now. (Not saying forums are rainbows and lollypops, but as Roger from American Dad put it... "Everyone's ****ed right now. These are weird times.") People are just jerks right now, to each other, to companies, to the government, and vice versa all around.
It comes with the territory. Have a drink and sit back.
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So send a PM to the Dev's, wait for the answer you probably won't get/won't like, and quit posting here. |
Originally Posted by Oubliette
The majority of these comments are rude, self-congratulatory back-slapping of superiority with each other in an effort to deride me. I've stated several times what I'm interested in seeing in this thread, if you don't have that to offer or have said your piece, please, I'm not asking to be berated, move on.
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Not sure where you are coming from here... Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning are something you can only get by BUYING GR. Ultra Mode will be available to all as an issue. The Closed Beta loyalty is for GR, not just Praetoria. DP were opened to the loyalty programme and I would expect the DS one to be at some point too.
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Originally Posted by Coolio
Aha, but it's some of the GR content you can use outside Praetoria.
I17's ultramode, Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning are not tied in to Praetoria. GR's CB should be all the Praetorian stuff. As for access to test demon summoning, not my department (I'm a CoH/V player) to say why or why not sorry. |
Exactly. The *only* way to use DP or DS powersets is to buy GR, either now for early access or when it goes live. They are part of GR, just like Praetoria. Without buying GR, you don't get access to any of the 3.
Now, they did open up the DP CB to Vet/Loyalty/Comicon qualified folks, *or* there was simply a lot of overlap between those people and whatever criteria they used to pick people for DP CB. I don't know. Doesn't really matter, as there's no such thing a setting a precedent when it comes to Devs deciding who gets into a CB. They can pick whomever they want for whatever reasons they see fit. Unless they outright say "Do XYZ and you'll get into the CB for XXX", there's nothing guaranteeing a way into any CB.
And in this case there's nothing stating that they have to open I17's CB to Vet/Loyal/Comicon folks.
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Originally Posted by Furio
there's no such thing a setting a precedent when it comes to Devs deciding who gets into a CB.
And in this case there's nothing stating that they have to open I17's CB to Vet/Loyal/Comicon folks. |
"Waves will continue up to launch."
I believe Diggis is correct.
Closed beta may, at the moment, not be open to people mentioned on the list there, but this thread has only ever been about clarification (a the risk of being redundant).
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Issue 17 =/= Going Rogue.|
Originally Posted by Oubliette
"Waves will continue up to launch." I believe Diggis is correct. Closed beta may, at the moment, not be open to people mentioned on the list there, but this thread has only ever been about clarification (a the risk of being redundant). |
Again, Issue 17 is *not* Going Rogue.
The picture you linked to is about Going Rogue.
Ultra Mode is no longer a part of Going Rogue; you will have access to it whether you purchase Going Rogue or not.
There's a little clarification for you. Of course, you can feel free to continue to pick and choose your sources.
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I remember a red post a while back that I17 is NOT GR. I've also heard it repeated many, many times on these boards over the past week, so I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish here. The reason that people seem to be ganging up on you is because you're being overly defensive. Just wait a while. You'll get the new shinies eventually.
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Originally Posted by Oubliette
"Waves will continue up to launch." I believe Diggis is correct. Closed beta may, at the moment, not be open to people mentioned on the list there, but this thread has only ever been about clarification (a the risk of being redundant). |
Yeah...as said, that's the GR CB info. We're talking about I17 CB. 2 different things.
-edit- But as I said, there's no such thing as precedent when it comes to CB selections. You might find yourself a "welcome to i17 CB" email in your inbox tomorrow. They very well could just go "what the heck! all you folks waitin for GR CB, c'mon in here and help us test I17!" That still doesn't make the current CB (I17) into GR CB.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
While it's true i17 is NOT GR, it might be worth pointing out that half of i17s content was indeed conceived for GR, as at the time those slides were taken Ultra Mode was part of GR. I does seem like a bit of a snap-around if it has indeed been "removed" from the GR beta requirements due to it no longer being part of GR. The biggest offender here is Demon Summoning. If Demon Summoning is part of i17 CB right now, then technically that's part of GR (as you cannot get it without preordering/and/or owning GR), and thus it should allow "60+ month vets" and "Loyalty members" in. It's all splitting hairs, and ultimately up to the devs of course, but given that I know loyalty members were in the DP closed beta and DP is part of going Rogue, I certainly hope DS is NOT in the currently CB, othewise they're violating their own conditions. That's really the only comment I have to make. I'd love to get in, sure, but it's not the end of the world either way, starting a CB over DXP weekend was..less than well though out anyway, kinda glad I didn't have to split my focus, personally :P
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
No, they AREN'T violating their own conditions if DS is currently beta testing. Never have they said that those that qualify for GR Beta would get into GR Beta on day one, during wave 1, or anything other than that we would qualify for GR Beta.
If they let us in on the last day of the Closed Beta when DS is being tested, and if they consider the DS testing to be part and parcel of GR Closed Beta, they'll have kept their word.
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Weather it's a "true" violation by lawyerspeak, or weather it simply feels that way to most are points that aren't worth debating. You are correct, ASSUMING loyalty rewards recipients get in at SOME point prior to the end of CB, then they will have "kept thair word" but I think only the most die-hard fans would agree with the assessment and most of those likely would not. No, there was no guarantee we'd be in in wave one, and that's perfectly fine by me, I'll simply wait and see if it holds true for the entire CB or not. Wasn't an intent to start or continue an argument, merely to point out that assuming the roumers are true, and DS is part of it, that does indeed make it part of "Going Rogue" unless those definitions are as fluid as the definition for Ultra Mode being part of Going Rogue have been...at which point, it's really just up to the devs, and the Loyalty reward means nothing.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
You got a badge out of it, didn't you?
You fooled around with dual pistols in one of the CBs right?
If you were going to subscribe for the time without the loyalty program, or if you were going to Hero-Con anyway, then it didn't cost you a thing to do it.
Heck, if I were them and I was reading these posts about I17 CB, I'd consider the Loyalty program wave VERY carefully. (In this context, consider would most definetly equal "more waiting".) But if the wave drops too close Open Beta, and the masses cry foul, these posts right now will be a walk in the park.
I think it's worth pointing out that even if "most" of the people in this thread are complaining, that doesn't mean most people have a problem with this situation. People who don't have anything to complain about are less likely to post at all. As far as I am concerned, this is the I17 beta test. I should be in the GR beta, but no one promised me anything about the I17 beta. A little demon summoning one way or the other doesn't change that.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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It was said since HeroCon (I believe don't quote me on that) that UM was going to be released early if they got it done in time, which means it was never considered an exclusive part of GR by the Devs. It makes no difference what the people thought, it matters what they mean even if there was some kind of miscommunication somewhere.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
While it's true i17 is NOT GR, it might be worth pointing out that half of i17s content was indeed conceived for GR, as at the time those slides were taken Ultra Mode was part of GR. I does seem like a bit of a snap-around if it has indeed been "removed" from the GR beta requirements due to it no longer being part of GR. The biggest offender here is Demon Summoning. If Demon Summoning is part of i17 CB right now, then technically that's part of GR (as you cannot get it without preordering/and/or owning GR), and thus it should allow "60+ month vets" and "Loyalty members" in. It's all splitting hairs, and ultimately up to the devs of course, but given that I know loyalty members were in the DP closed beta and DP is part of going Rogue, I certainly hope DS is NOT in the currently CB, othewise they're violating their own conditions. That's really the only comment I have to make. I'd love to get in, sure, but it's not the end of the world either way, starting a CB over DXP weekend was..less than well though out anyway, kinda glad I didn't have to split my focus, personally :P
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Why can't we all just be happy that we are getting UM in April instead of having to wait till July to get it? This is completely blowing my mind! Did you also notice something else here? If you UM was part of GR you would have to buy the expansion to get it, correct? OK that being said they turned content that everyone thought you originally had to pay for and made it FREE. It's FREAKING FREE NOW. lol! What is there to complain about?
Also please note that in this announcement: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=211335
DS is NOT mentioned. You can only assume that they are NOT testing DS right now and that it is I17 ONLY, at least until we are told otherwise.
@PeerlessGirl: How is UM half the content of I17? It is a big part don't get me wrong, but I do not see that as being HALF the content. It is just large in size. And DS is still part of GR even if it comes out the same time as I17. You still have to PRE-PURCHASE GR to get it even then. They did that as a perk for PRE-PURCHASE.
Just to clarify:
I didn't subscribe to the loyalty program to get anything. I was subscribing anyway. My shiny badge pushed me over 500ish, and that makes me happy. I played around with DP for a while and enjoyed it. I'm going to try to go to Hero-Con next year, just because I want to go. I don't care that much about Demon Summoning in the grand scheme of things, though Ultra Mode is very important to me, and I'd enjoy testing and working on it, especially since I have SLI'd G92 9800 GTX+'s with 1GB of RAM each, and I think it would be a good mid to mid-high testing rig, especially if the SLI code needs tested.
I'm 3 months away from 60 month vet status anyway. I was in the I9-I12 closed beta's didn't get called for 13, 14, was in whichever one was "clopen" (15..or 16?) wasn't in the other, and as far as I know, am not in 17.
I'm not so much "complaining" as I was stating a few things, and the way I see them, having been here for a while, though am quiet the majority of the time..except for yelling at pohsyb :P
Either way, I don't relish people testing right now anyway.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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It certainly DOES matter what people thought, especially when people get mad enough about it. Especially on the CoH forums, people are very good about making "assumptions" truths, and remembering the devs "promised" them things they never did.|
Originally Posted by ZanderCross
which means it was never considered an exclusive part of GR by the Devs. It makes no difference what the people thought, it matters what they mean even if there was some kind of miscommunication somewhere.
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Originally Posted by ZanderCross
Why can't we all just be happy that we are getting UM in April instead of having to wait till July to get it? This is completely blowing my mind! Did you also notice something else here? If you UM was part of GR you would have to buy the expansion to get it, correct? OK that being said they turned content that everyone thought you originally had to pay for and made it FREE. It's FREAKING FREE NOW. lol! What is there to complain about?
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Originally Posted by ZanderCross
Also please note that in this announcement: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=211335
DS is NOT mentioned. You can only assume that they are NOT testing DS right now and that it is I17 ONLY, at least until we are told otherwise. |
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Originally Posted by ZanderCross
@PeerlessGirl: How is UM half the content of I17? It is a big part don't get me wrong, but I do not see that as being HALF the content. It is just large in size. And DS is still part of GR even if it comes out the same time as I17. You still have to PRE-PURCHASE GR to get it even then. They did that as a perk for PRE-PURCHASE.
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I've just been doing this a long time, and I know what the wind smells like. That's just CoH, not counting the rest of my extensive software and MMO beta testing.
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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My point saying that didn't matter oddly enough didn't mean it didn't matter OVERALL, but as far as what the Devs owe people, it means nothing. As you said assumptions are what lead to all this talk on the forums as it is. Sorry for my poor choice of words |
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
It certainly DOES matter what people thought, especially when people get mad enough about it. Especially on the CoH forums, people are very good about making "assumptions" truths, and remembering the devs "promised" them things they never did.
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| I am not "complaining" I was merely pointing out the way it will be seen by many, as I thoguht it worthy to comment on. |
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| I suspect that DS is indeed being tested at the moment, just from some comments I've seen around the boards, but no, I have no proof, yet. After the fact though, we'll see. I've been in 5 of the last 8 Closed beta's not counting this one, so I'm fairly familar with how things work back there. |
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| Again, I suspect that given how much work UM is, it's indeed at least half the content of i17. We know there's a couple new story arcs I think, there's ultra mode, there's POBABLY demon summoning (as if they want to get it tested before GR's actual beta, they basically have to do it now to actually put it out "early" that's my reasonable assurance it's indeed there). There's probably Pohsyb's ususal round of QoL things, the email changes MAYBE the store updates they promised, a couple costume sets and poses and emotes, and I suspect that's it. It's therefore likely safe to assume UM is indeed "half" the content of i17. |
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Features Ultra Mode Ultra Mode includes a superior graphics rendering process for players who have higher-end graphic cards. Each feature can be enabled or disabled in the graphics menu options and will be scalable. Ultra Mode works on both Macs and PCs. In specific, it offers dynamic shadows, screen-space ambient occlusion, and dynamic environment reflections (including planar reflections and environment mapping of reflective surfaces). Epic Archetypes Unlocked at Level 20 Previously, you had to have at least one character at level 50 to make an epic archetype character. No more! Now you can create an epic archetype character as long as you have any one character at level 20 or higher. Animated Tails No more tails lying about like dead weight! You will now be able to select tail body parts that will react to your movement and have a swaying or swishing idle animation mode. You will need to go to a tailor to upgrade to the animated version. Content New Story Arcs: Issue 17: Dark Mirror features two new Hero and two new Villain story arcs for levels 20-30. Each of these story arcs has four missions, and the story arcs highlight the Dark Mirror's sinister new enemy. Acquire the first Hero story arc in Talos Island, and the first Villain arc in Sharkhead Isle. Silver Mantis Strike Force Update: The Silver Mantis Strike Force will now be available to all Villains, not just supergroups. You now can access the Silver Mantis Strike Force via Silver Mantis, located in Sharkhead Isle. You can also run this Task Force from your supergroup computer. Positron Task Force Update: This Task Force has been split into two halves and dramatically upgraded and updated to ramp up the fun. The final battle of the Task Force takes place in the Faultline Dam and incorporates the new Dark Mirror enemy. New Badges: Along with adding badges for 500 Badges Earned, 750 Badges Earned, and 1,000 Badges Earned, we are adding new exploration badges to city zones, almost doubling the number of exploration badges. You can learn new Accolades for finding all of the exploration badges in each city zone. New Player Emotes: We'll let you know more about the new emotes soon. Quality of Life Improvements Craftable Temporary Powers: You will now have a much cleaner and more consistent way of finding and crafting temporary powers. Increased Mission Count: You can now have seven active missions (previously three). Show Last Objective: This UI improvement lets you find your last objective on a mission map, making it easier to find something you've missed. Auction House: The UI gives you new options for sorting search results, your Auction House inventory is now separated by clearly marked tabs based on the item's status, the Auction House text entry box now autocompletes, and a single click on a recipe displays all salvage needed for that recipe. In-Game E-mail: You can now use in-game e-mails to send Influence/Infamy to your own characters or to other players' characters via in-game e-mails. (You still cannot send Influence, Infamy, or items from a Hero to a Villain or vice versa.) Mission Architect Improvements Experience: You can now handpick the powers for custom enemies and still receive experience for them (within game balance limits). New Maps: We have added approximately 20 new unique maps. Giant Monsters: You can now add giant monsters to some outdoor maps. Exit Mission on Complete: You can now specify that players have to leave the mission manually on completion. Escort Missions: "Lead to place" technology allows you more control over escort objectives. |
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I have it from reliable sources that they ARE. That's why I don't believe all this BS about "i17 is seperate than GR," because 3/4 of what they're testing right now IS GR, as it was announced at Hero-Con... |
Originally Posted by ZanderCross
DS is NOT mentioned. You can only assume that they are NOT testing DS right now and that it is I17 ONLY, at least until we are told otherwise.
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What I believe is that it will be done in waves, even if it means those of use who qualify for CB won't get in until a week before it goes to open beta.
At this point, I truly don't care if I get in at all anymore... I've started to have a lot of r/l issues coming up. so I haven't spent nearly the amount of time that I'd like to in the game...
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
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Right, they're testing all the content for Praetoria, the side-switching, and all the goodies that are Going Rogue.|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I have it from reliable sources that they ARE. That's why I don't believe all this BS about "i17 is seperate than GR," because 3/4 of what they're testing right now IS GR, as it was announced at Hero-Con...
What I believe is that it will be done in waves, even if it means those of use who qualify for CB won't get in until a week before it goes to open beta. At this point, I truly don't care if I get in at all anymore... I've started to have a lot of r/l issues coming up. so I haven't spent nearly the amount of time that I'd like to in the game... "Alien" |
Wait, that's not what they're testing?
Then it's not Going Rogue. It's Issue 17.
What you believe has little bearing on the facts.
Fact: In testing in closed beta is Issue 17.
Fact: While Issue 17 has the Ultra Mode which was announced at Hero Con, that still does not make Issue 17 suddenly become Going Rogue.
Fact: Ultra Mode will be available to all players, whether they buy Going Rogue or not.
Fact: Ultra Mode's independence from Going Rogue means that it is not an integral part of Going Rogue.
Fact: None of the content announced for Issue 17 was listed as being a part of Going Rogue.
Fact: None of the Loyalty Program, Veteran Status, or any of the other incentives promising entry into the closed beta for Going Rogue apply to Issue 17.
Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.
-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!
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What "BS that i17 is separate than GR"? That makes no sense at all. Look at the overview for Issue 17 that I linked in my last post and then look at what comes with GR. UM is i17 now so get over it. DS is part of GR and so is DP. They are released early to PRE-PURCHASE customers ONLY. If i17 was GR then a dev wouldn't have stated that i17 was NOT GR. Simple as that! |
Originally Posted by AlienOne
I have it from reliable sources that they ARE. That's why I don't believe all this BS about "i17 is seperate than GR," because 3/4 of what they're testing right now IS GR, as it was announced at Hero-Con...
What I believe is that it will be done in waves, even if it means those of use who qualify for CB won't get in until a week before it goes to open beta. At this point, I truly don't care if I get in at all anymore... I've started to have a lot of r/l issues coming up. so I haven't spent nearly the amount of time that I'd like to in the game... "Alien" |
Also, what makes you think that a new power set and some shadow and reflection upgrades are 3/4 of GR? If that were true it would barely be worth a $10 booster pack! What about the moral alignment system? What about all the new missions that and contacts that they will have to add so you have the ability to Go Rogue? What about all of the current content they will have to change to make it possible to get moral alignment points? What about the entire NEW CITY they are adding to the game!? Does no one else realize how much content they have to add for the MAS? seriously get a clue!
Also, if you didn't care at all anymore then you wouldn't have posted... Just saying!
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Well said sir!|
Originally Posted by Smersh
Right, they're testing all the content for Praetoria, the side-switching, and all the goodies that are Going Rogue.
Wait, that's not what they're testing? Then it's not Going Rogue. It's Issue 17. What you believe has little bearing on the facts. Fact: In testing in closed beta is Issue 17. Fact: While Issue 17 has the Ultra Mode which was announced at Hero Con, that still does not make Issue 17 suddenly become Going Rogue. Fact: Ultra Mode will be available to all players, whether they buy Going Rogue or not. Fact: Ultra Mode's independence from Going Rogue means that it is not an integral part of Going Rogue. Fact: None of the content announced for Issue 17 was listed as being a part of Going Rogue. Fact: None of the Loyalty Program, Veteran Status, or any of the other incentives promising entry into the closed beta for Going Rogue apply to Issue 17. |
I also have thread of info that I pulled from different places to put in one thread with hopes of keeping people from making the same threads over and over again with the same questions. Check it out if you think it would help at all or if you have anything to change or add please comment on it:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=212389
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It's apparent to me that what they announced at HeroCon as going into GR has since changed. Now some of it's going into i17 instead of waiting for GR.
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Originally Posted by AlienOne
I have it from reliable sources that they ARE. That's why I don't believe all this BS about "i17 is seperate than GR," because 3/4 of what they're testing right now IS GR, as it was announced at Hero-Con...
What I believe is that it will be done in waves, even if it means those of use who qualify for CB won't get in until a week before it goes to open beta. At this point, I truly don't care if I get in at all anymore... I've started to have a lot of r/l issues coming up. so I haven't spent nearly the amount of time that I'd like to in the game... "Alien" |
Lvl 50 fire/rad troller Wantonya - Infinity
Too many other alts and servers to bother counting
Right!
The parts of GR that are no longer parts of GR will be live before GR goes live.
Specifically Dual Pistols out now with GR pre order.
Demon Summoning due April with GR pre order.
Ultramode due Issue 17. (Issue 17 related stuff also due Issue 17.)
Praetoria Zones, Maps, Missions, Badges, etc. due around July when GR goes live.
GR Closed Beta should be Praetoria Zones, Maps, Missions, Badges, etc. before they go live.
And with the number of players scheduled for GR Closed Beta it's technically going to be an open beta.
That is from all currently published information at this time...