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I don't pretend Traps/ is an optimal build for competitve PvP. I just said it was a good build for SC. That's it. That was the OP. Everyone here agrees, but chooses to focus on every setting that Traps/ is not a good build for... (kinda what you just did there)|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
Dear Dahjee,
I have pvped quite a long time now, have a varied amount of toons and I know the pvp system well enough to know that the Trap set is way low on the food chain of "overall" viable pvp toons. Can someone make the Traps set work and get kills? Yes and only under certain circumstances because the set has many limitations compared. Anything can seem to perfom decently in large or very organized teams but take those two away and you have a very subpar set. You may have found a nitch in SC on Virtue but honestly, SC has mostly low HP, poorly slotted, tight and limited power builds that are controlled by newbie fight club pvpers. In that zone against that quality the Trap set does ok so more power to ya, but I'm sorry to say that the 50 RV zone play for a Trap set was/is/always will be much more of a challenge for that subpar and situational set. By the very nature of the Trap set powers there are way too many counters for it to be considered an overall good pvp set. If most of zone play were stand in one place and fight then I would have a trapper on my team everytime or make one myself, but unfortunately that is not how zones play out. You have your nitch and tricks that work situationally against newb fight club pvpers, but please stop pretending that traps is anywhere near a competitive pvp toon when there are so many other better choices out there even among the other subpar sets. Thanks for reading, OI |
I don't see the problem or rarity of finding people who wish to roll a team defender for zones and provide a way for hero teams to stay closer together, (a safe zone, as someone called it) even if it means not getting a lot of kills or not being uber when solo. Standing on 3 or 4 stacked triage beacons, 4 or 5 acid mortars, 3 FFGs, 40 or so trip mines, and 18 Posion traps spead out over very large areas would indeed be easy to do with just 3 in a zone and would not only eliminate any direct melee attacks, but also reduce significantly any need for teammates to fear spikes. This would actually open the door for many sets that would thirve in PvP if given such security. A True defender indeed. [EDIT:] People are use to seeing maybe one bad trapper in a zone perhaps with a stack of traps directly below them. Most have never seen however a rooftop covered with traps systematically placed every 3 ft leaving absolutely no chance of a player surviving being webbed and running accros such a rooftop. <--- for example
Traps is not a subar set... Trapping is a subpar tactic and approach. One that requires more skill to be good at because of it. You can't argue the fact that nothing in game can damage someone more than 16 optimized trip mines at once or more, or that the 4 second puking effect from multiple PGT combined with stacked -regen debuff effect isn't effective for getting kills. You can only argue the possiblity one has of ever getting someone to get hit by these attacks. This arguement can't be proven on mids however I'm afraid, and currently I see most have very little experience with the set. Too little to make me somehow forget the things I've been able to do with it, and too little to convince me that several played the way I've been successful playing it couldn't compete with today's skilled players and builds. My Traps/ defender is on Freedom and is currently level 11. I adevertise because I can only hope that when I do get to SC and RV... that I'm not the only one taking advantage of such a viable zone set.
I touched on this earlier. Sometimes we draw no line in between how we play in arena (competitive PvP) and zone. We bring the ticker with us to SC and RV, and assume we must kill, keep moving, find them, kill them again fast, run, seperate, don't die... don't die... don't die. It's really not all that neccessary in zones.
We assume that a high K/D ratio is all that's really needed to be "good." However that may be the case when kills can win a match. In a zone where there is no clock, no kill count, and no winner... To me, getting kills (in a zone) repeatedly while other teammates or heros/villians die is a sign of a poor player. We all know good players who zone like this I'm sure.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
It will be fun farming you.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Perhaps.|
Originally Posted by OPTICAL_ILLUSION
It will be fun farming you.
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But impossible if there are competent Traps players near me. Some take attack powers from their secondary too!
web grenade + tp foe = you run or die. End of story
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
In my opinion Traps is a solid toon if on a team with damage dealers, however it will always be outshined by Trick Arrow in almost any situation I can come up with.
I would take entangling arrow and glue arrow in almost any situation over any of the "tricks" a traps corruptor has. Even Acid Arrow is much much better then any traps power in PvP.
When push comes to shove, COX PvP relies on being able to deal a lot of damage while being extremely mobile, or the ability to remove an opponents ability to do the latter two. Traps relies far to much on staying near its immobile traps. The set "high points" almost require you to take the teleportation pool that might as well be useless in PvP thanks to travel supression and the fact that Teleportation is not an efficient/accurate means of travel even if it wasn't supressed.
-Kiri
Oh!
I just though of something for the numbers people too.
Just out of curiosity... I was wondering what kinda damage, mitigation, +regen, Max number of caltrops, and area coverage of all would be possible if five half smart people teamed with traps, and set them every time they were available?
My trapper is optimized and sets a Trip mine every 11 seconds, and PGT in 33. (including cast time) It doesn't have hasten however, or Force of Nature yet. We'll just say for now that smarter players would have gotten accolades sooner or hasten and saved a billion or two... Would probably be around the same... I'm asking to be honest, so don't be rude if I'm wrong about "the same" part.
I know that 5 times 1 is 5... so that's 5 mines every 11 seconds. I know that Trip mines have little trip lines circling around them to represent the little pbaoe explosion, and that as long as that explosion touches the trip line (pbaoe range) of another that it will trigger the other(s) too... so that a med sized cirlce of mines or row is far more effective than say a stack on them in the same spot.
I know that with at least three damage procs I can think of, and a just about a guarantee'd -Res proc effect (with multiple mines) being attached somewhere in the fireworks when slotted... (stacks from different players btw) that it doesn't take long to remember how many mines it takes to kill X amount of HP in Y of amount of seconds. (lol my player notes on my trapper literally rate some by how many mines it takes to kill them instantly... true story... the more ya know eh?)
More traps means simply more time to set up. This Time... is very often the one thing offered in a zone that can cripple a decent trapper when try to competitively PvP. this imo doesn't make traps a bad set... it just makes it more suitable to zones when played by people who undersand what it's good for and effective at.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
The mutha fn king! I like some of your zone toons, but dont u have some toons built just to drone ppl?
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All I do is drone people.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
I almost thought Dahjee was being serious. Unfortunately I've come to the realization that this thread has just been people getting trolled. 
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Always a hot tactic|
Originally Posted by ConFlict
All I do is drone people.
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"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
I almost thought Dahjee was being serious. Unfortunately I've come to the realization that this thread has just been people getting trolled.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I think ultimately what matters, especially in zones like the OP is asking, is finding what you have fun with, since there's no point in pvping if you don't have fun. For a lot of people, what is fun is what performs the best (FotM's), while for others playing sets few others play and still doing well gives more satisfaction, even if those builds can't get as many kills.
I tend to fall in the second category, and my favorite alt in Sirens atm is my dark/traps corruptor, Penguin From Future. When I made her years ago it was solely for PVE reasons (TT + webnade = immobed group with a boss for my traps). Deploying traps in pvp is much much harder than in pve, but not totally impossible, if you learn to take advantage of when they are caught in an animation while attacking your teammates. You used to be able to use hover to move while placing traps, but they fixed that a long time ago. But you can still do a little hop right after you activate so you start activating your trap while you are away from your target and try to land next to them as it goes off.
I wouldn't suggest a traps corruptor/defender as your first pvp(or even pve) alt, though. It is definitely not for everyone. But if you absolutely love traps in pve, maybe you will like it in pvp too.
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