'casual player' earning power


Another_Fan

 

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Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
Yep, you're right. If you know what you're doing it's easy to go from level 1 to level 50 kitted out with decent IOs at the early levels and getting yourself great sets by the time you're 50, and still have 100+ million when you're done.

The problem is that the casual player doesn't know how to do this. They don't have the hundreds -- nay, thousands -- of hours of experience that you have in the best way to accomplish every aspect of this game.

You have to realize that something we think of as trivial is totally opaque to the majority of players out there. The early game steers everyone down the SO road, and IO mechanics are very confusing to most people. And if you don't have Mids, figuring out how to build a character with IO sets is a major project.

So, us telling them that this is actually very easy to do doesn't really help them -- they'll need to spend the hundreds of hours themselves getting familiar with the system to learn all the things you know. And in this instant gratification universe, that's a message that doesn't go over well.

This is a good point.

Take a player who starts the game fresh and plop him/her into the CoH world and say "GO!", and it will take them a heck of a lot longer, with a lot of exploring/trial and error/what do I do now? moments along the way.

Knowing what to do and when to do it are huge advantages that a new or truly casual player wont have, because they will be experiencing content, and generally wasting a lot of time where a experienced player will just skip to the meat of xp/influ/merit gaining.

So its truly hard to define what a casual player is... theres too wide a range of variables - are they new? Do they have a mentor in game to show them stuff? Someone to walk them through the market interface? Experience with Mids planner?

So what took you a hundred or so hours and made you 300M plus a full IO loadout might take a brand new "casual" player a year, because they need to learn so much you already know.

But in general I do agree with the sentiment of the OP- which is: stop crying that you cant purple your ******* warshade... you can make plenty of influ and have all the stuff you need by 50 if you just chill out play the game, and sell uneeded drops. How long it takes will be quite variable, but the end results should be close enough- everyone can have nice things if they work a little for them.


 

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Originally Posted by SlimPickens View Post
This is a good point.

Take a player who starts the game fresh and plop him/her into the CoH world and say "GO!", and it will take them a heck of a lot longer, with a lot of exploring/trial and error/what do I do now? moments along the way.

Knowing what to do and when to do it are huge advantages that a new or truly casual player wont have, because they will be experiencing content, and generally wasting a lot of time where a experienced player will just skip to the meat of xp/influ/merit gaining.

It's been my observation that these sorts of genuinely 'new' players aren't the ones complaining about the reward structure.

Assuming they like the game, they're the ones running around having fun exploring stuff and learning by trial and error- IMHO the most fun part of any game.
I wouldn't *want* them to care how much inf they were earning or what was most efficient- that inevitably comes with time and exposure. Genuine newbies should be left to discover the game at their own pace.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Heraclea View Post
No. My recollection of the pre-i9 game is that a character alone was constantly struggling to keep SOs out of the red until well into the 40-something levels. Since base storage for enhancements preceded i9, the usual method was to dump surplus level SOs into a bin to be sold by levelling characters.
I don't remember it as being bad for THAT long... my first couple characters had huge problems at 22-25, smaller problems at 27-28, 32 was about breakeven, and at 37 I was rolling in wealth. Villainside was tougher, I hear.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

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Originally Posted by Ignatz View Post
I'm a little baffled by the sarcasm in your posts. Nethergoat's experiment was pretty straight forward, and I confirm his results. On the few characters I've soloed, drops were plentiful, and all of them had between 100-300 million Influence left after the final batch of IOing at level 50.

I can only speculate that your soloing includes duel boxing to powerlevel your characters via farms. There are two distinct differences. One is you will get less drops on your lower level character. Second, you won't receive any Merits. Random rolling Merits is a powerful way to get either wanted recipes, or ones that you can sell for very good income.

Nethergoat didn't mention Merit spending, so I can reasonably assume(since his final Influence number is at the high end of my own solo projects) that he received a few lucky drops. This isn't surprising in that even one lucky drop can make a 70 million Influence difference...or more.

Actually i tri-box and pl or run for drops in PI and AE. I may not get merits but in AE i get 9000 tix per hour i can easily get gold rolls on each toon. Although, i generally use 1 toon for gold, 1 for silver and 1 for bronze. The silver rolls actually make the most inf for me.

In PI, i normally max salvage and common recipes on 2 runs. Some junk, some good. Sometimes i can get 2-3 orange salvage per toon per run.

I haven't tried to run solo mishes but whenever i run with my friends or a team, i rarely even get any recipes to drop at all.

I am interested in how many drops are actually dropped running mishes solo. What are the settings that Nether runs at? 0x8 or what to have a fitted toon AND 300mil doing mishes to 50? Even farming every day, it takes time to get "good" drops and to be able to do it all just on radios or contacts is hard to believe.


 

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Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
Actually i tri-box and pl or run for drops in PI and AE. I may not get merits but in AE i get 9000 tix per hour i can easily get gold rolls on each toon. Although, i generally use 1 toon for gold, 1 for silver and 1 for bronze. The silver rolls actually make the most inf for me.

In PI, i normally max salvage and common recipes on 2 runs. Some junk, some good. Sometimes i can get 2-3 orange salvage per toon per run.

I haven't tried to run solo mishes but whenever i run with my friends or a team, i rarely even get any recipes to drop at all.

I am interested in how many drops are actually dropped running mishes solo. What are the settings that Nether runs at? 0x8 or what to have a fitted toon AND 300mil doing mishes to 50? Even farming every day, it takes time to get "good" drops and to be able to do it all just on radios or contacts is hard to believe.
Why ?

Its one instance that would not have been mentioned if it failed to support the point to be made.

And even if it were representative. You have things like this.

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one, how much inf would a theoretical 'casual gamer' pile up playing the "right" way to 50- running story arcs, selling drops, no marketeering, no farming
vs

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I logged him in to move him around for day jobs, started doing a little marketeering


 

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These findings are bogus...way too many assumptions. I find the idea of someone who regularly posts in the Market section of the forums "pretending" to level a toon like they think a casual player would kind of funny...maybe with hopes of justifying their own beliefs?


 

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Food for thought if you like.

The person who introduced me to this game is my RL buddy, and probably subscribes for two months total every year, and I'd definitely categorize him as very casual. Some things to keep in mind for your analysis...

He runs on DOs, because SOs are too expensive to keep reslotting.

He doesn't sell drops. He didn't even know or notice that his recipes and salvage were full until I pointed out the red letters on his power tray to him. The entire Invention system is beyond his scope of interest. I suggested some reading on the forum to help offset the chronic shortage of inf, but he laughed at me because reading forums and faqs shouldn't be a necessary part of having fun *shrug*

He's currently level 32 on a brute he created last holiday, so his entire income is earned from defeating mobs and mission/arc bonuses. He had around 800k I believe after I crafted some generic 30 IO's to save him reslotting funds mentioned above. This is after turning off SG mode as it was cutting into his earnings. I gave him 5 mil or so which should last him well to 50, whenever he does that.

An odd case perhaps, but there is a part of the playerbase like this.


 

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Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post
I am interested in how many drops are actually dropped running mishes solo. What are the settings that Nether runs at? 0x8 or what to have a fitted toon AND 300mil doing mishes to 50? Even farming every day, it takes time to get "good" drops and to be able to do it all just on radios or contacts is hard to believe.
I've done everything in this game at one point or another, and the drop rate is the same whether you run missions, run farms or street sweep hazard zones. The only thing that matters is how many enemies you defeat- with the mission slider, that variable is largely in our hands.

Payback ran at optimal settings for his powerset and survivabilty- even level, +3 or 4 spawn size. His AoE concentration meant 'normal' contact mission created plenty of opportunities for drops and he was able to clear them in good time.

maybe you're just a crummy farmer?


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

I duspute that entry into IO sets are that problematic even for a new player.

Uncommons are mostly cheap easily available, and most of the time get good basic coverage of a powers needs, maybe with a slot spare to put anything missing.

(Exception the real lowbie sets with have just 3-4 pieces, but again put all of a set then cover the weakness with commons).


Optimising builds maybe problematic for a newcomer, but slotting 'Volley Fire' plus an extra damage or two really is not.


Heck, the first character I dipepd into sets with, I basically slotted IOs for the set names (Emp/elec with Thunderstikes and Doctored wounds). It is a valid approach for a cheap performance boost over 'regular' enhancements at any level.



@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

 

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Originally Posted by SoilentGreen View Post
These findings are bogus...way too many assumptions.

zero assumptions.
I'm just reporting the numbers I accumulated.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Radium View Post
An odd case perhaps, but there is a part of the playerbase like this.
Definitely.
It takes all kinds- the strength of the game is that it 'works' for players like your friend & players like me and everyone in between.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

That's pretty interesting. How much game time per week is classified as casual in this research though?


 

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Originally Posted by beyeajus74018 View Post
That's pretty interesting. How much game time per week is classified as casual in this research though?

There are as many definitions of "casual gamer" as there are people with agendas to advance. Here's the one I go by, which was hashed out by a lot of different folk in a long-ago thread:


'casual' has more to do with someone's approach to the game than the # of hours they play. My 'casual' gamer is defined by their inattention to the thing that the less casual players tend to obsess over- efficiency.

I played with a couple of friends for years. We all played about the same # of hours per week, but they were definitely 'casual' and I was definitely not. They ran whatever came their way, did whatever sounded fun, didn't worry about the 'best' way to slot their powers, didn't pay any particular attention to their builds (my favorite manifestation of this was my buddy with the DM scrapper who took Flurry because he loved Shadow Maul so much....when vet rewards hit, he took, you guessed it, Sands of Mu. And yes, he chained Shadow Maul, Sands and Flurry together every chance he got).

Meanwhile, I'm not a Mids-crazy build nut, but I do notice when powers suck, and I do think about efficient slotting, and I do want my characters to be 'good' at beating up the foe.

So, it's more of a philosophy than anything.
If you want to earn rewards efficiently and you worry about the performance of your character, I don't think you're a 'casual' player even if you only log in for two hours a month.
And playing 40 hours a week won't make you hardcore if you're just running around like a chicken with its head cut off, doing whatever looks neat without regard for how well it's moving you along the path of progress.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
I've done everything in this game at one point or another, and the drop rate is the same whether you run missions, run farms or street sweep hazard zones. The only thing that matters is how many enemies you defeat- with the mission slider, that variable is largely in our hands.

Payback ran at optimal settings for his powerset and survivabilty- even level, +3 or 4 spawn size. His AoE concentration meant 'normal' contact mission created plenty of opportunities for drops and he was able to clear them in good time.

maybe you're just a crummy farmer?
LMAO> Yes, that's it. Im a crummy farmer. Even if you wanted to believe that, you know that you know better. I would have to be the worst player in the game to not be able to farm with the toons i run. from 0x8 to +4x8

1) Fire/Kin- fully IO'd with purps and procs.
2) Fire/Rad- on follow just for the heals and imps and toggles like hot feet and chocking cloud (only commons)
3) Fire/Sonic- for imps and debuffs and defense. (only commons)
4) When im not on those i run a fully IO'd soft capped Elec/SD which can easily run +4x8 solo.
5) or when in AE i use my Fire/Kin teamed with the /Sonic and a lev 35 (xp stopped) Ice/Cold troller for lev 35 tickets that the market is empty and in high demand of for people. (or myself)

I can blaze thru anything this game has to offer. Like i said, i'd have to be an idiot (which is what you want to think just because i disagree with the way the market is ran) not to be able to farm.

"casual" depends on the person. The way that YOU leveled yours may have been casual to YOU, but may not be casual as like, say, my cousin that plays whenever he can get 15$ from his parents. But don't worry, i'll tell him he don't need the better things in the game since he can't play like i or you do.


 

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As a point of comparison, I recently took a BS/Nin Stalker from 1-50 doing mostly solo missions set to +3/x1. I slotted sets as I levelled and could afford them, and by 50 I had earned enough to pay for my planned softcap build, which cost 500-600 million all told, with about 40 million left over. The only big drop that I got from defeating enemies was a Respec recipe in the mid-30s, which sold for 100 mill.

I definitely got a few good drops that sold for 10-20 mill, but the biggest source of income by far was reward merits. I earned over 400 merits from 1 to 50 - about 90 from Strike Forces and the rest from story arcs. The recipes that I bought with these netted me 350 million inf on the market, which was a little more than half of my total income.

This was the first character that I'd levelled all the way from 1 to 50 since merits were introduced, and it was also the first where I was able to afford my planned build at 50 without relying on outside sources of income. The single-target nature of the Stalker lends itself to completing more missions and arcs than the average character, but I didn't go out of my way to ghost missions for merits, and still took the time to do all of the newspaper and bank missions for Invader. I played this character pretty much every day for a few months, so he didn't get the chance to accrue much patrol XP.

It sounds like the sources of my income were quite different to Nethergoat's, but my results certainly lend credence to the conclusion that a 'casual' player is able to earn plenty of inf for a good to excellent build from just playing the game.

As a side note, after reading numerous debates on this subject over the last couple of weeks I've noticed that the people on the 'casual players' side of the debate almost always turn out to be farmers, who are pretty much the antithesis of 'casual'. I strongly suspect that the true 'casual' player (such as Radium's example above) doesn't actually care one way or the other about the whole thing as long as the core gameplay is enjoyable for them.


 

Posted

Nobody needs the better things in the game. Every single item for sale in Wenworth's or the Black Market that you can't buy outright from another source is a luxury.

It's unfortunate that your cousin can't play as often as he'd like, but come I-17, you can e-mail him a big chunk of INF that will allow him to place bids for goodies that will likely fill during his enforced absences from the game.


 

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Originally Posted by Godpants View Post
Nobody needs the better things in the game. Every single item for sale in Wenworth's or the Black Market that you can't buy outright from another source is a luxury.

It's unfortunate that your cousin can't play as often as he'd like, but come I-17, you can e-mail him a big chunk of INF that will allow him to place bids for goodies that will likely fill during his enforced absences from the game.
lol. im not giving him my loots. lol.


 

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Originally Posted by SoilentGreen View Post
These findings are bogus...way too many assumptions. I find the idea of someone who regularly posts in the Market section of the forums "pretending" to level a toon like they think a casual player would kind of funny...maybe with hopes of justifying their own beliefs?
I would love to hear your improved set of assumptions and the reasoning behind them, maybe followed by your experiment where you level up a character of your own in this fashion and report the results.

... or are you one of those people who doesn't have anything to offer ?


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
I've done everything in this game at one point or another, and the drop rate is the same whether you run missions, run farms or street sweep hazard zones. The only thing that matters is how many enemies you defeat- with the mission slider, that variable is largely in our hands.
that's true, I caught a performance shifter: chance for +end on a Talos Island Bank mish before. When I showed it in the chat window it got a surprised reaction.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by SoilentGreen View Post
These findings are bogus...way too many assumptions. I find the idea of someone who regularly posts in the Market section of the forums "pretending" to level a toon like they think a casual player would kind of funny...maybe with hopes of justifying their own beliefs?
Where's the beef?


There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
There are as many definitions of "casual gamer" as there are people with agendas to advance. Here's the one I go by, which was hashed out by a lot of different folk in a long-ago thread:


'casual' has more to do with someone's approach to the game than the # of hours they play. My 'casual' gamer is defined by their inattention to the thing that the less casual players tend to obsess over- efficiency.

I played with a couple of friends for years. We all played about the same # of hours per week, but they were definitely 'casual' and I was definitely not. They ran whatever came their way, did whatever sounded fun, didn't worry about the 'best' way to slot their powers, didn't pay any particular attention to their builds (my favorite manifestation of this was my buddy with the DM scrapper who took Flurry because he loved Shadow Maul so much....when vet rewards hit, he took, you guessed it, Sands of Mu. And yes, he chained Shadow Maul, Sands and Flurry together every chance he got).

Meanwhile, I'm not a Mids-crazy build nut, but I do notice when powers suck, and I do think about efficient slotting, and I do want my characters to be 'good' at beating up the foe.

So, it's more of a philosophy than anything.
If you want to earn rewards efficiently and you worry about the performance of your character, I don't think you're a 'casual' player even if you only log in for two hours a month.
And playing 40 hours a week won't make you hardcore if you're just running around like a chicken with its head cut off, doing whatever looks neat without regard for how well it's moving you along the path of progress.
Probably the best definition of "casual" I have ever seen. Figures it would come from someone who is probably one of the least casual players not to come from the Scrapper board (and we are nothing if not a bunch of number crunching min-maxing bastards).

Anyway, I would say your results look to be way over average, at least in comparison to what I have managed to do with my toons. If I sold all my rare and decent salvage as I was leveling up my DM/Shield Scrapper, I would have ended with around 100 mil. That would also be the best I have ever ended a toon before diving into the Market a bit. My fiancee, who partnered said scrapper with a Kin/Dark Defender, was less lucky with salvage but scored a purple near the end of our leveling and ended with 200 mil (this was before Purples skyrocketed).

Best guess, the average would probably be around 75 million for a 1-50 run, with a vast majority of that being post 40, and being heavily weighted toward at least more informed casual players (those who know to at least sell rare salvage or use it to craft at least one decently priced recipe). Not bad for casual play, or even IOing a few key powers with decent uncommon sets, but easily surpassed by playing the market or getting 1 decent purple drop, definitely 1 PvP drop or cashing in a store of merits for a LotG.

Take my samples with a grain of salt, though. I would qualify myself as an informed, but seemingly unlucky or just bad, player. Definitely beyond casual, but clearly underneath the Market or Scrapper gurus. I have made a few builds in Mids, and I can make enough in game to put IO sets on my toons provided I stay away from the more popular sets, but I cannot get over the hump to true ebilness. I may send you a PM about it.


11 months of all-nighters, messy feeding sessions, bath fighting and realizing just how good my son's lungs work, and I am still convinced he is the crowning accomplishment in my life. What in the blue HFIL is wrong with me?

 

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Originally Posted by eryq2 View Post

"casual" depends on the person. The way that YOU leveled yours may have been casual to YOU, but may not be casual as like, say, my cousin that plays whenever he can get 15$ from his parents. But don't worry, i'll tell him he don't need the better things in the game since he can't play like i or you do.
He doesn't NEED the better things in the game AT ALL. No matter how he plays.

The game runs fine with just SOs.

IOs are completely 100% a WANT.

So again, no he doesn't NEED the better things.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
He doesn't NEED the better things in the game AT ALL. No matter how he plays.

The game runs fine with just SOs.

IOs are completely 100% a WANT.

So again, no he doesn't NEED the better things.
Unless he plans on PvPing


 

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Originally Posted by ArchGemini View Post
Anyway, I would say your results look to be way over average, at least in comparison to what I have managed to do with my toons.

Entirely possible- this is the only time I've leveled someone this particular way and paid attention to the results.

I'll be interesting to see where my experimental stalker ends up on the financial pecking order.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

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Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten View Post
Unless he plans on PvPing
And of which case he is no longer casual.

Casual pvp died a long time ago.


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!