All Quiet on the Paragonian Front
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2010-02-02 23:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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With all due respect I must disagree with this statement. You seem to assume a static global population in which every person that could possibly be intersted in this game has been exposed to its existence. Kids are growing up, acquiring disposable income, buying their first comics and have NEVER heard of this game. As I have stated before, if this game was not on a shelf in Best Buy almost 4 years ago I may never have heard of this game. There are always new potential customers for a product like this. |
Originally Posted by Creole Ned
With regards to advertisements, a few points I would make are:
1. The game is nearing six years old. NCsoft will be working hard to retain players rather than focusing more on getting new ones, since a) it's a lot easier to keep a player than woo him back after he leaves and b) the playerbase is not going to grow significantly with the game being as old as it is. That window, I think, closed several years back. |
Is retension of current customers important? Absolutely, but if that is the sole focus of your marketing and advertising than you may as well be selling cigarettes and praying you keep all your currnet customers...well, at least until they all die off.
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Originally Posted by Creole Ned
2. A superhero (and villain) MMO is a niche inside a niche. The appeal is limited no matter how good the game is. Spending marketing dollars that may drum up little interest would be a wasted investment.
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I am not asking for celebrity sponsored super bowl ads but what we have now is zip. I imagine there will be a shelf presence and some ad work for GR when it finally hits (lord I hope so) but it should not stop there. This game has a lot to offer a new player already and people outside of the petri dishes that pass for most MMO.whatever forums should be made aware of that fact.
The Revenants and Vengeance Imperium-Triumph, Champion & now flavoring Justice!
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Shhh! Rangle is plotting.
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Other MMOs saw a player hit when WoW launched. I'm not disagreeing that WoW didn't bring new players into the MMO market - it did - as did CoH/V. But Blizzard did have the advantage of an existing reputation and Battle.net to draw on and was also aided by very strong reviews and word-of-mouth. CoH/V did also receive good reviews and word-of-mouth, but anything it did was eclipsed by the WoW juggernaut.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
I really dislike WoW. So I'm not using them as an example that COX should follow to the letter. Also, WoW did not, in fact, get it's majority of players from other MMOs. When it launched, there simply weren't that many MMO players to pull from. A significant number of WoW players were already Blizzard fans. I'm talking about where they pulled the rest of their players from. It wasn't by 'killing' other MMOs. They got people playing that had never played MMOs before, or indeed even a PC game.
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However, all this discussion about launch is a long way from where we are now.
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| I'll also point out that EVe online has no tv spots either and I was seeing more of that title even when COX had superior numbers to it. If that doesn't tell you something then I honestly don't know what will. |
EvE has a lot stronger WoM than CoH/V has or ever had. It is offering a very unique product to the market as well and one that has benefited from a lot of banner advertising. It probably helped that CCP were independent while CoH/V is a small part of a much larger NCsoft product pie.
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| This begs me to ask again, why more than double your staff and spend even more money on top of that to produce and expansion, when you don't intend to grow the playerbase of the game? They could have added less people to the team and then simply gave us meatier issues as continued free updates. |
At this point, the PS marketing team don't have to worry if us existing players are champing at the bit for more GR info (in fact, they probably take that as a good sign). They have to focus on getting everything lined up so that GR brings in 100k+ new players, maybe more. Growth is foremost on their mind.
(Sideline: I think at least some of that new team, and some of the old team, are working on PS' second title, which is another reason behind the expansion.)
CoH/V would certainly have benefited from more exposure, but this isn't necessarily the fault of Paragon Studios (or even forum punching bag Cryptic). CoH/V has often been overlooked by NCsoft as other titles have gotten more attention e.g. Guild Wars, Tabula Rasa, Aion. CoH/V could certainly ask for more ad exposure, but if TR was booked in for the month at Gamespot (or wherever) they won't be in luck.
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Originally Posted by Sermon
WoW is really the only major MMO which has consistenty had TV ads.
I think internet ads are really the way to go for an MMO anyways, since you can click on the button and then, within a few minutes, be downloading a trial. CoH has been absent from a lot of pages lately though (inc. PennyArcade, I believe) but maybe they are saving their advertising dollars for their new product. When GR really gets rolling they'll even get reviews on major websites like IGN, where a game like CoH barely gets any press these days. Also, have they tried to get the PA guys to do a mission architect arc yet? Those folks command an army of affluent zombies. Anyways, I fully expect to see a news update today or t'morrow or, at worst, next week (from Ocho's post, he seemed to imply the news item could slip from this week, meaning it was probably always meant to be a late week announcement). |
So I don't know how intentional it was, but in season 1 of chuck, in at least two different episodes while there is stuff going on at the Buy More, one of the end caps in the store is completely filled with City of Villains boxes. Since Season 1 of chuck started in 07 and CoV was released in 05, It's not like the game was brand new and Chuck wanted to use it to grab attention.
Also the game is in the back ground, (but it's very clearly CoV) so I was kind of wondering if the makers of the show just picked something random that they could put on store shelves to make it look real and ended up with CoV on that endcap that shows very clearly.
On the other hand, maybe the CoX marketing department is just that good and has been sneaking their product onto primetime Shows and no one notices since it's all subliminal.
Perhaps we should ask The Television.
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker
The '6 years old' argument holds no water considering a couple easy facts. First of all...I hear more about UO than I do CoX when reading about gaming things. It's still active from 1997. At this point, they are in a holding pattern when it comes to advertising for new players, etc, but they're still active. I hear about EVE all the time as well, and it came out in 2003. Those are two examples. Ten bucks I'd find more if I did more then just think of things off the top of my head. I think CoX is shooting itself in the foot just pretending that games don't have lifespans past a couple years.
Seriously, I have hardcore gamer friends who would have never heard of CoX if they hadn't known I played some silly little game no one has ever heard of. When they ask what games I'm playing, if I include CoX their response without fail is "Wait, that's still around? REALLY?" Since I've been playing since the release year, I've heard this a lot. I'm sick of it and find it ridiculous they still haven't heard of it other than from me.
I just don't comprehend what in the world the marketing department is doing with their resources. The only ad campaign I have seen was a couple splash pages in some comic books I picked up a couple years ago.
Does the marketing department really think that's all the advertisement the game needs? Clearance sales and a couple comics and a couple web ads?
Though I am wondering how much is marketing fail and how much is advertising fail...or at the two departments merged at NCSoft? As in, the marketing department also handles ads and hyping up the game, rather than outsourcing to their ad buddies.
To the whole GR no info thing: I took a break recently for 3+ months from the game. The only info I had to catch up on when I got back was 'Ultra Mode'. Which I only found out about because my fiance peeked at the forums and found HeroCon reveal info. My interest has actually been rapidly decreasing in GR. I'm sure it'll be cool when it comes out, and my fiance and I will probably buy one copy when it hits, but we're debating wasting our money past that, because at this point we're getting it just for pistols, which are cool, but not worth money we could be spending elsewhere.
I'm not saying that they need to tell me every single thing that is included in GR, but tidbits occasionally would be nice.
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I'd certainly like to see more tidbits too, but this doesn't seem to be a very good reason from NCSoft's point of view. Why should they care when you decide to buy it, as long as you do decide to buy it? It's not even for sale yet. If they told you enough now to get you excited enough to buy it... what good would that be? You can't buy it. By the time it does hit the shelves, in three months or six months or whatever, your excitement will have faded away and you might not buy it after all.|
Originally Posted by Tiny Bolt
My interest has actually been rapidly decreasing in GR. I'm sure it'll be cool when it comes out, and my fiance and I will probably buy one copy when it hits, but we're debating wasting our money past that, because at this point we're getting it just for pistols, which are cool, but not worth money we could be spending elsewhere.
I'm not saying that they need to tell me every single thing that is included in GR, but tidbits occasionally would be nice. |
Better to wait until there is something you can do with that excitement before trying to get anyone excited.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Basically...my sub doesn't mean anything, really. I know that. But new customers would be awesome. I don't see us getting many new customers with the complete lack of advertisement or hype this game tends to get. And I realize most people operate with short attention spans for purchases, but it doesn't have to be all or nothing, and there's nothing saying that they can't do marketing/ads in waves. Why not do a small marketing splash now to let people know CoX exists and is improving on an already solid base, and then a big push a month or so before GR hits shelves? |
Originally Posted by peterpeter
I'd certainly like to see more tidbits too, but this doesn't seem to be a very good reason from NCSoft's point of view. Why should they care when you decide to buy it, as long as you do decide to buy it? It's not even for sale yet. If they told you enough now to get you excited enough to buy it... what good would that be? You can't buy it. By the time it does hit the shelves, in three months or six months or whatever, your excitement will have faded away and you might not buy it after all.
Better to wait until there is something you can do with that excitement before trying to get anyone excited. |
And I like researching things before I buy them. I'm also used to planning ahead to what movies I want to see sometimes years before they hit theatres. I don't see why any game purchase is special or different...but I'm pretty sure I'm just weird like that. ^.^
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I made one focused on kicking Rikti butt.. is this the kinda thing you were talking about? Click.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I say make a few 'official' posters and stuff and post them on the website.
And then let the fanbase print them out and sticky them up in places. Take a load printed to pamphlet size and ask the local game store if they mind just leaving them on the side, or stand by the door (hell, bring a chair) Stick em by bus stops; people read any old carp when they are sat, bored, waiting for the 18:58. |
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I think that is a big thing. Why would they market it strongly right now when in a few months they will have a shiny better looking game with more features to market? You push that, as that is what will bring in new people.|
Originally Posted by UnSub
Here's the thing that everyone overlooked in Castle's posts - Marketing is dependent on the devs to provide the material they use and okay it. Since the big build up is for GR, then that's what they'll be saving their dollars for and since they can't yet say anything about GR, marketing's hands are tied.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Well we are kind of in a tight spot here. First of all we can't advertise in Marvel comics (although, I think I did see an ad once) and DC has their own game coming out. On top of those facts, we also don't have our own comic on the shelves anymore, so regular advertisment is limited.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Not meaning to sound nasty, Castle, but I've seen more net ads for the Other Superhero MMO than I have for CityOf. In fact, bar the 'Im a Hero, I'm a Villain' ads from the Mac Pack, I've never seen a single CoX advert. Ever.
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It's called building buzz and hype. Very acceptable tools to use in the videogame industry. Game companies hype and market their games strongly even when they are in shaky alpha stage. They don't do full demos, but they certainly keep releasing screenshots and designer diaries with bits and pieces of info until the game hits. That's standard practice for MMOs and mainstream video games alike. |
Originally Posted by Oddballica
I think that is a big thing. Why would they market it strongly right now when in a few months they will have a shiny better looking game with more features to market? You push that, as that is what will bring in new people.
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| I'd be suprised if Other Superhero MMO had less, since it's a pretty new game. You're comparing the marketing of a new game to an old game, of course the new game will have more. If an MMORPG kept up the advertising budget for release for the lifespan of the game you would get a lot shutting down faster. |
Again, more than doubling the staff, putting so much time and money into a new boxed expansion and you can't give any of the features that are coming apart from the graphics upgrade? You can't release enough info to make a small designer diary on a semi regular basis? It's almost made me afraid that there isn't much more coming in GR to get excited about. Is everything that's being done in GR so huge and game changing that there are no features you can talk about without ruining everything? Not even QoL features that may be going in?
I want to believe that this is all part of a master plan, but I keep feeling like it's just shoddy marketing. If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit to it, but this is an age where hype sells your game. Old or new, building buzz and keeping in the public eye on a regular basis continues to net folks who might otherwise miss your game. There are too many examples out there for me to think otherwise at this point.
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This is what worries me, to be honest. And the fact that evidently the marketing team hasn't bothered to update the GR website for months at a time. I didn't even know we had a website until this thread.|
Originally Posted by Slashman
Again, more than doubling the staff, putting so much time and money into a new boxed expansion and you can't give any of the features that are coming apart from the graphics upgrade? You can't release enough info to make a small designer diary on a semi regular basis? It's almost made me afraid that there isn't much more coming in GR to get excited about. Is everything that's being done in GR so huge and game changing that there are no features you can talk about without ruining everything? Not even QoL features that may be going in?
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Either GR really isn't going to be all that great, and I can wait til it's on the clearance racks for the value I'll be getting out of it...
Or I could probably walk into the marketing department and within days do more than they have in years. I don't have any marketing or advertising degrees, but I have helped multiple companies I work for generate buzz for their business. It's not any different, just a different product. You want the buzz and hype to happen before you have the product, so then when the product hits you have people lining up to buy it.
It's also pathetic that us players are the best publicity the game gets, if you think about it. I wandered around the CO boards for a couple days...and there are people in the only other superhero game on the market who haven't heard of us. Not joking, and kinda wish I was.
If they're worried about leaking too much, start a Twitter account for GR updates. Then they'd have a 140 character limit to adhere to and not risk omguber breakthroughs.
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I have a sneaking suspicion that if you walk into that marketing department, the only thing you'll find is a Magic Eight-Ball that's perpetually stuck on "TIME NOT YET RIGHT."|
Originally Posted by Tiny Bolt
Or I could probably walk into the marketing department and within days do more than they have in years.
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Or, like, one of those drinky-birds that's constantly pecking the "N" key.
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You say that as if it were new - when in fact, it's pretty much the general pattern. Marketing announces an expansion or issue... and then, at best, information leaks out by bits and dribbles over the following months.
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Originally Posted by Creole Ned
I do think NCsoft marketing dropped the ball by announcing Going Rogue so early and then following up with virtually no information for months on end.
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http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
Secondly, the point of advertising, despite what television may have taught you, is not to annoy us or brainwash us, it is to inform us that a product does, in fact, exist, and maybe make us interested in checking it out. I found and tried both Dragonica and Dungeon Fighter Online simply because I saw a cute ad for them on ICanHasCheezburger, back before localisation started showing me crappy Bulgarian browser games I'll never, ever try. Dragonica caught me banners of cute, anime-style ganguro girls in Fantasy armour while Dungeon Fighter Online caught me with what looked like arcade fighter gameplay right on the banner. And I'm pretty sure those were "Ads by Google."
I don't doubt the marketing department are doing as much as they can be, I just don't feel they're aiming for the right spots. Aiming for MMO enthusiasts is a mistake. Aiming for a broader audience of general gamers, and indeed non-gamers seems like a much better choice, specifically considering we have so many people here for whom City of Heroes was the first and only game they played. Targeting more general areas of congregation might also be a good idea. Again, places like the many "funny caption" blogs tend to get a lot of traffic.
Just put it out there for people to see. It's silly that I had to learn about this game from an article on SomethingAwful.